RE: "Damaged Goods" ?

RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (Full Version)

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SubOscar -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/8/2007 5:35:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheIronHorse I put much effort into responding to your original post. I'm all for free exchange of thought. Several femsubs have stepped forward with their experiences and we've yet to get to the crux of the matter with you. Malesubs are notorious for disguising troll posts as legitimate content. This thread had a lot of potential, its wandered too far off course to come back around again. TIH I think what you say makes the most sense. Cheers

blackpearl81 -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/8/2007 5:58:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheIronHorse I put much effort into responding to your original post. I'm all for free exchange of thought. Several femsubs have stepped forward with their experiences and we've yet to get to the crux of the matter with you. Malesubs are notorious for disguising troll posts as legitimate content. This thread had a lot of potential, its wandered too far off course to come back around again. TIH The heart of the matter is, I was abused as a child by my dad - especially when it came to family disagreements. Case in point - My grandma bought me a playstation for x-mas (back when it first came out) It arrived christmas day. My step mom found out, copped a bitch fit about it. When I told her it was none of her business what my grandmother did with HER money, she flipped out and came at me. When i defended myself, my dad jumped in. Ultimately, It turned into a boxing match of epic proportions. I went to jail, and did 6 months for it... at 14. Why did I go to jail? Because I was on probation at the time for a previous "Domestic Violence" charge. Technically, getting arrested by the cops constitutes a violation of probation. 3 months later, when I was released (it was a 6 month program - 3 months in, 3 months out on "re-entry"), I still had the playstation, but no audio/video cables to hook it up to my T.V. So, I asked my dad if he could take me to the mall to buy said cable. That erupted into WW4 - complete with fistfights, broken glass, and the cops getting called.... yet again. The only reason why I didnt go BACK to jail, was because my "re-entry" counselor (read: p.o) knew about the previous stuff that happened (x-mas day) and intervened. Another time, I was arrested because I actually fought back.. .after my dad pinned me against a dresser. I don't think i wanna go into the time he smashed my first computer with a metal chair. Or how when i was 12 he threw me through a damn wall because I found a pocket knife in the front yard, and kept it instead of turning over to him. Ironically enough, his then gf (the same one that bitched about the psx 2 years later) was the one who intervened.

SweetDommes -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/8/2007 5:59:52 PM)
For us, it depends on if we feel the issue is hindering the boy in some way. For example - I have a history of sexual assault (as the victim, not as the perp), and I have flashbacks from time to time. I spend a lot of time trying to move past it. I probably should have/should go to counseling, but so far haven't. My last flashback was almost 2 years ago, and I'm hoping that it really was my last. I haven't had any scenes that would push me, but I do spend a lot of time talking about it with Holly, and I am open and honest about my past with all potentials, so that they know in advance what to do if I have a flashback (usually, it's move out of range until I've started to come back ... last boy got thrown across the room oops). I work on it constantly because the flashbacks interfere with my life. I don't like that, so I want to get past it. With a situation like yours, there would be much discussion, reflection, and more discussion. If Holly and I determined that some pain play might help, then we will move slowly in that direction (and for those who want to shout about "you aren't a professional" - I do have some training, I work with enough psych patients that I'm pretty sure I qualify as a psych nurse at this point, and I'm smart enough to know when to not push issues and leave it to a full professional). It might remain something that we only talk about - and if it's not something that interferes with life, then we might not even do that.

blackpearl81 -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/8/2007 6:07:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SweetDommes For us, it depends on if we feel the issue is hindering the boy in some way. For example - I have a history of sexual assault (as the victim, not as the perp), and I have flashbacks from time to time. I spend a lot of time trying to move past it. I probably should have/should go to counseling, but so far haven't. My last flashback was almost 2 years ago, and I'm hoping that it really was my last. I haven't had any scenes that would push me, but I do spend a lot of time talking about it with Holly, and I am open and honest about my past with all potentials, so that they know in advance what to do if I have a flashback (usually, it's move out of range until I've started to come back ... last boy got thrown across the room oops). I work on it constantly because the flashbacks interfere with my life. I don't like that, so I want to get past it. With a situation like yours, there would be much discussion, reflection, and more discussion. If Holly and I determined that some pain play might help, then we will move slowly in that direction (and for those who want to shout about "you aren't a professional" - I do have some training, I work with enough psych patients that I'm pretty sure I qualify as a psych nurse at this point, and I'm smart enough to know when to not push issues and leave it to a full professional). It might remain something that we only talk about - and if it's not something that interferes with life, then we might not even do that. I can't say I've moved past it.... I've more or less B&F'd (buried & forgot) about it. Unfortunately, it looks like now that is coming to bite me in the a$$ (no pun intended) because S/M activities don't pique any type of interest - which, inturn, could/would/does make it difficult to catch the eye of a prospective Madam.

SweetDommes -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/8/2007 6:14:41 PM)
Not all Dommes are into pain play - but I believe after conversations in the past that you are not interested in poly ... that actually hurts your chances as much as not being into pain. As I said before, we have rob if one of us feels the need to flog or spank, so our second boy doesn't need to be into pain. If we only had one boy though, that would be a problem.

blackpearl81 -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/8/2007 6:21:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SweetDommes Not all Dommes are into pain play - but I believe after conversations in the past that you are not interested in poly ... that actually hurts your chances as much as not being into pain. As I said before, we have rob if one of us feels the need to flog or spank, so our second boy doesn't need to be into pain. If we only had one boy though, that would be a problem. Your right...it just seems that a lot use S/M in their relationship... As far as poly goes - kinda have a little bit of jealousy, and that definitely wouldn't be good for a polygamous setting.

sapphirepleasure -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/8/2007 6:47:32 PM)
Buried and forgotten is not a healthy solution. Hungry dogs in the basement just get hungrier, ya know. Did you read my two responses about how I (who experienced sexual, verbal, physical and religious abuse as a child) have found that engaging in pain play with sensitive, caring dominants has led to healing and letting go of my pain? The sense I'm getting from you is that in pursuit of your bury & forget non-solution, you would rather just make rules about limits and avoid areas of discomfort instead of carefully venturing into places which could lead to freedom and healing. And you avoid exploring poly citing your jealousy issues as a reason instead of looking into if there might be some growth and healing to be found through engaging in respectful and sensitive people who are poly. It's all about how you perceive yourself--walking wounded, or someone who sincerely wants to be whole and free of past traumas.

blackpearl81 -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/8/2007 6:55:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure Buried and forgotten is not a healthy solution. Hungry dogs in the basement just get hungrier, ya know. Did you read my two responses about how I (who experienced sexual, verbal, physical and religious abuse as a child) have found that engaging in pain play with sensitive, caring dominants has led to healing and letting go of my pain? The sense I'm getting from you is that in pursuit of your bury & forget non-solution, you would rather just make rules about limits and avoid areas of discomfort instead of carefully venturing into places which could lead to freedom and healing. And you avoid exploring poly citing your jealousy issues as a reason instead of looking into if there might be some growth and healing to be found through engaging in respectful and sensitive people who are poly. It's all about how you perceive yourself--walking wounded, or someone who sincerely wants to be whole and free of past traumas. I've thought about that....I'd be willing to try it, but I'd have to definitely find the right person to trust something like that with. Eh.. No offense to the Dom/mes out there... But I'm VERY cautious (numerous failed relationships have that effect on you, ya know?) about who I "let in".. even more so because from what i've been able to discern, this type of dynamic, can have an even.. more profound effect. Basically, what would hurt one person (in a 'nilla relationship) can devastate another in a BDSM "flavored" relationship.. No clue if I phrased that right... It's not completely closed off to me. But I would have to SERIOUSLY trust the Domme in this situation... I think thats why I kinda felt betrayed with my friend. (another thread in another section) Yes, I do want to get past this, but it would definitely take a while to trust someone enough to help me through it...with her, I did.

LotusSong -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/8/2007 6:59:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blackpearl81 Now, here's where the problem lies: Some relationships have a nice dose of S/M play involved in it. Something like this could very well cause that relationship to grind to a halt. But on the flip side, if this is known beforehand, then that could/would stop the relationship from forming to begin with, negating the need to deal with it later on. And then there are people like me that involve very light SM or none in my interactions.

blackpearl81 -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/8/2007 7:00:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong quote: ORIGINAL: blackpearl81 Now, here's where the problem lies: Some relationships have a nice dose of S/M play involved in it. Something like this could very well cause that relationship to grind to a halt. But on the flip side, if this is known beforehand, then that could/would stop the relationship from forming to begin with, negating the need to deal with it later on. And then there are people like me that involve very light SM or none in my interactions. Touche' [Mod Note: image removed]

SunnyTawse -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/8/2007 7:34:56 PM)
I consider myself a sadist, and yet sm isn't really what it's about for me--it's about the control and the power. So I don't really care if a submissive doesn't do pain play as long as he demonstrates submission. I adore service, and that's one way a submissive can demonstrate submission. My primary criteria are chemistry, compatability in terms of goals and ethics, and emotional transparency. Sunny Tawse Archon of Rings http://AthenorLodge.com

blackpearl81 -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/8/2007 7:37:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SunnyTawse I consider myself a sadist, and yet sm isn't really what it's about for me--it's about the control and the power. So I don't really care if a submissive doesn't do pain play as long as he demonstrates submission. I adore service, and that's one way a submissive can demonstrate submission. My primary criteria are chemistry, compatability in terms of goals and ethics, and emotional transparency. Sunny Tawse Archon of Rings http://AthenorLodge.com I don't follow - what do you mean by "emotional transparency" ?

iammachine -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/8/2007 8:15:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blackpearl81 If a submissive went through something traumatic in their childhood (lets say physical abuse), and as a result, doesn't do well with pain, would that make you not consider them? Or would you try and work with them on it? Just curious. Thank you in advance for your replies. V. i wouldn't push them for anything that they weren't comfortable with. If pain play was something I felt I really needed, and was a limit for a potential partner, I'd chock it up to incompatibility and move on, or keep it a casual play relationship in the realm of what is mutually enjoyable.

SunnyTawse -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/8/2007 8:41:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blackpearl81 I don't follow - what do you mean by "emotional transparency" ? I mean someone who reacts naturally, who reveals themselves emotionally. I want to know what they're feeling about what's happening, what they're afraid of, what they hope for... I don't want someone who's manipulative, who thinks carefully about all the possible consequences of saying this or that, or who tries to give me a response they think I want. Sunny http://AthenorLodge.com

blackpearl81 -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/8/2007 8:48:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SunnyTawse quote: ORIGINAL: blackpearl81 I don't follow - what do you mean by "emotional transparency" ? I mean someone who reacts naturally, who reveals themselves emotionally. I want to know what they're feeling about what's happening, what they're afraid of, what they hope for... I don't want someone who's manipulative, who thinks carefully about all the possible consequences of saying this or that, or who tries to give me a response they think I want. Sunny http://AthenorLodge.com I see.. You don't that would be a little awkward though, not wanting them to think about the consequences of what they might say... that could cause a lot of problems down the road.. no? I'm not trying to be disrespectful or anything, but, if i spoke before I thought out what i wanted to say at my job, I'd probably be at the unemployment office by now .... Sincerely, V.

adoracat -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/9/2007 5:42:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blackpearl81 I see.. You don't that would be a little awkward though, not wanting them to think about the consequences of what they might say... that could cause a lot of problems down the road.. no? I'm not trying to be disrespectful or anything, but, if i spoke before I thought out what i wanted to say at my job, I'd probably be at the unemployment office by now .... Sincerely, V. it boils down to trust, i think. i was abused as a child in all the major ways (physical, emotional, sexual) then went into an abusive marriage (again, the same situation, physical, emotional, sexual)... and that colors me, and how i react to things. its a bent in my psyche that cannot be removed. if Sir doesnt know about the land mines in my brain, how is he going to know how to take care of me/the situation when he inadvertantly sets one off? i didnt tell him i cannot bear being tickled.....he tickled me quite playfully and i had a panic attack. he didnt know i had been held down and tickled as a child, far past the point of wetting myself, to the point of throwing up. this happened on many occasions. so although its VERY difficult for me to expose those bits of me that i am ashamed of, i do it anyway. if i dont, i am setting myself, Sir, and the relationship up for more problems than are necessary. in one's workplace, one has to maintain a certain distance, true. but in one's relationships, one really needs to be able to bare one's secrets, one at a time, once trust is established. kitten, who struggles with all sorts of things, but tells Sir so he can help.

BeachMystress -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/9/2007 7:00:59 AM)
I would never consider a submissive with this problem because pain is a major turn on for me. In another situation, if a submissive had some odd trauma in his childhood that left him afraid of clothespins or rope I would either avoid the trigger or IF THEY WANTED work with them on desensitization. Someone who knows they have any type of special circumstances like this needs to be VERY clear with a prospective Dominant about the problem. Very firm limits need to be established to protect the area of trauma. It also needs to be discussed that some things that seem innocent, like a gentle, playful slap on the cheek, may cause a bad reaction when you're already feeling vulnerable (scenes are just great for causing vulnerability) and set up a "contingency plan" to deal with flashbacks or strong negative feelings.

blackpearl81 -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/9/2007 7:17:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BeachMystress I would never consider a submissive with this problem because pain is a major turn on for me. In another situation, if a submissive had some odd trauma in his childhood that left him afraid of clothespins or rope I would either avoid the trigger or IF THEY WANTED work with them on desensitization. Someone who knows they have any type of special circumstances like this needs to be VERY clear with a prospective Dominant about the problem. Very firm limits need to be established to protect the area of trauma. It also needs to be discussed that some things that seem innocent, like a gentle, playful slap on the cheek, may cause a bad reaction when you're already feeling vulnerable (scenes are just great for causing vulnerability) and set up a "contingency plan" to deal with flashbacks or strong negative feelings. Good morning BeachMystress It's good to read Your posts again [:)] I do not intend to show disrespect, nor make You out to be a "black sheep", but this is exactly what I'm afraid of - missing out on a potential relationship due to my own.. issues. The more I've read, the more I definitely plan on working to get past this, I just don't know where to start. Thank You for Your reply V.

LeatherBentOne -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/9/2007 7:55:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blackpearl81 If a submissive went through something traumatic in their childhood (lets say physical abuse), and as a result, doesn't do well with pain, would that make you not consider them? Or would you try and work with them on it? Just curious. Thank you in advance for your replies. V. I was r/t with such a submissive and her trust in me overcame her physical/sexual abuse. But I dismissed her after 4 moths because she lied to me about doing something she already had my permission to do . . . call her ex. A senseless lie that I thought totally unnecessary after honesty was expressed as something I demanded that if I didnt get it, it was a deal-breaker for me. So I had no choice. Regarding the S/m aspect........I moved slowly to build trust. Things like showing her a toy and getting a response to it, verbal or body language, then letting her smell and kiss it but no touching my toys ever, explaining my feelings and uses for said toy, detailed negotiating ( esp. how many hits and their intensity) and consenting to use of toy (starting with mainly sensual play rather than pain play and gradually upping the anti). Remember, its easy to break trust and difficult to gain it, esp if you had trust and broke it by rushing or disregarding sub's background. Patience and baby steps are your best friends here, and no she's not damaged goods. If you see her as such, beware you not cause her any more harm. She is a person, firstly.

TheIronHorse -> RE: "Damaged Goods" ? (9/9/2007 8:03:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LeatherBentOne Regarding the S/m aspect........I moved slowly to build trust. Things like showing her a toy and getting a response to it, verbal or body language, then letting her smell and kiss it but no touching my toys ever, explaining my feelings and uses for said toy, detailed negotiating ( esp. how many hits and their intensity) and consenting to use of toy (starting with mainly sensual play rather than pain play and gradually upping the anti). Remember, its easy to break trust and difficult to gain it, esp if you had trust and broke it by rushing or disregarding sub's background. Patience and baby steps are your best friends here, and no she's not damaged goods. If you see her as such, beware you not cause her any more harm. She is a person, firstly. Well said, I think the OP needs to talk to a counselor regarding the abuse issue. He needs to get a handle on that first and foremost. HAving been abused probably wouldnt drive anyone a way, not having a handle on that abuse probably would.

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