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RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 6:51:15 AM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
As for small calibers not killing, I read an interesting article once that said that mob/executioner types preferred a .22 cal weapon because of their killing power. The round usually produces no exit wound on a head shot and richochets around inside the skull tearing up everything in it's path creating a lot of damage. I don't know how true that is but it certainly would seem to make sense.


That's true if you've got the gun pressed against the base of their skull... A shot to the torso at 5-15 feet, possibly through a jacket... different story. If you're delivering contact-range headshots on a home intruder, i hope you've got a good place picked out to hide the body, because the police are not going to be happy with you!

For inexpensive ammo in a pistol, if you rule out .22, 9mm is what you want. The choices are almost endless. One reason that a lot of people like Glocks is that they don't have a traditional safety that you could forget to click off in a moment of panic. If you're not planning to get a license to carry the pistol, get a full-sized model with a long barrel- it will give you better accuracy and reduce the felt recoil. 

i'm a firearms hobbyist, and my home defense gun is a 12-gauge shotgun for the reasons other folks have mentioned. Another thing to consider is getting a firearm that you can attach a flashlight to- it will keep your hand free in a darkened house, and can also dazzle an intruder whose eyes have adjusted to the dark.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 6:52:36 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: instynctive

Something else that needs to be realized is that during home defense, the whole point is to thwart the invasion, not kill someone.  Even if the law does not punish the homeowner for taking a human life, that's something that person will have to live with, and that level of responsibility can have lasting effects on a person's well-being.



I will totally agree with the shot gun specifically a sawed off (illegal) shotgun is the all time best home defense.

Basically bigger holes make things die faster so I would recommend nothing less than 40 cal. approaching 1000 ft/lbs. or better.

as far as shooting to let live is concerned, well heh... thats a great way to get sued.   dead men dont talk, neither do they sue.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to instynctive)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:02:41 AM   
InfernoMDM


Posts: 51
Joined: 3/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: instynctive

Something else that needs to be realized is that during home defense, the whole point is to thwart the invasion, not kill someone.  Even if the law does not punish the homeowner for taking a human life, that's something that person will have to live with, and that level of responsibility can have lasting effects on a person's well-being.



I will totally agree with the shot gun specifically a sawed off (illegal) shotgun is the all time best home defense.

Basically bigger holes make things die faster so I would recommend nothing less than 40 cal. approaching 1000 ft/lbs. or better.

as far as shooting to let live is concerned, well heh... thats a great way to get sued.   dead men dont talk, neither do they sue.



First off your a idiot if you have a sawed off.  It will actually decrease the killing potnential of the shot, by not getting up to speed and keeping the patern. 

As for your bigger hole issue, there is so little differnce inbetween a 9mm-45ACP when it comes to hollow point(and thats all you should have in self defense), that its a non issue.  I don't know where you got your info but you need to get a update.

Shotgun - All military and LE tests pretty much say for home defense don't drop below #4 buck period. 

I don't know where you guys are getting your gun info, but it seems to be skewing off into the world of myths.


< Message edited by InfernoMDM -- 9/9/2007 7:12:09 AM >

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:04:26 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

If you're delivering contact-range headshots on a home intruder, i hope you've got a good place picked out to hide the body, because the police are not going to be happy with you!


Goodness guys, I wasn't intending that tidbit to be used as advice. It was just an interesting bit of trivia that I thought would be amusing. On further search I have found several references that there may be some merit to that choice of caliber weapon in that scenario. I guess the thing that I wanted to convey was that one should not assume that a .22 is incapable of killing, there are dead bodies that were shot at both short and long range that would disprove that notion. It certainly isn't my first choice for home or personal defense...but all guns can result in fatal injury under the right circumstance. 

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(in reply to petdave)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:04:49 AM   
TheIronHorse


Posts: 149
Joined: 7/9/2007
Status: offline
If you buy a gun, you have to ask yourself:  Do I have the mettle to use this thing when the shit hits the fan?

Shoot to kill, period. Dont shoot to wound. Seriously, dead men file no lawsuits.

Buy the largest caliber handgun you're comfortable holding.   If you dont intend to become a gun enthusiast, buy a revolver or small shotgun.

I've drawn my Model 97 Winchester on tresspassers and I've pulled a knife defending myself in a public place.  If you ever find youself in such a position, demonstrate proficiency, confidence and willingness to defend yourself. 



(in reply to InfernoMDM)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:05:17 AM   
ArgoGeorgia


Posts: 256
Joined: 2/9/2007
From: Atlanta, Georgia
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For someone without a lot of experience handling a gun, I would second the suggestion of a shotgun.  Handguns require a LOT of practice to hit the target, shotguns less so.  And, in a situation where you might need it, the conditions won't compare to the controlled surroundings of a gun range.  You will have a lot of adrenalin rushing, your eyesight will be off (due to just waking up, darkness, etc), a lot of confusion.  If you were willing to spend hours at a range every week to develop muscle memory and the appropriate reflexes so that you can hit the targe more often without conscious effort, then a handgun might work. A shotgun, on the other hand, while still requiring some experience to hit the target, won't need nearly as much. 

On your idea about just shooting to injure...  I disagree with this.  If you are in a situation in which you must shoot someone, aim to kill.  Period.  If you are aiming to just injure/maim someone, there are probably some slimy lawyers and dumb juries out there that will say you must not have really been in fear for your life if you only wanted to injure, and then they might just allow a big lawsuit settlement on the burglar's behalf.  It has happened, sadly enough.  However, I am not a lawyer, and you would need to check with the laws in your state.  Some states have self-defense, castle doctrines, etc etc.  Be familiar with these laws as well.  Sadly enough, in America today defending yourself from intruders usually includes defending yourself from the "justice system" afterwards.

On the types of ammunition....  there are various things to consider.  First off, do other people live in the house?  How close are your neighbors?  One of the primary rules of firing a weapon in any situation is ALWAYS know what is in the background.  What is behind the target.  Birdshot will have less penetrating power and shorter range than many handgun rounds.  Most won't penetrate a couple layers of sheetrock/siding.  However, I'm pretty confident that my .45 rounds will go through much of a house, all of it if I get lucky.  If you live in a closely packed neighborhood, have children, etc, definitely take this into consideration.  Most confrontations in the home will happen at 10 yards or less.  Trust me - someone getting hit by birdshot (go for pheasant or turkey shot, not BB's) will go down at that range.  And yes, you can start off with lighter rounds and finish off with buck or slugs as the last round.  But keep in mind that jury I mentioned before.  One or two shots in self defense they'll accept.  Putting 4-5 rounds in them might not look so good.

I have a .45 Glock, AR-15, Remington 870 12-gauge, and Remington 700 30-06.  The only two I keep loaded are the handgun and the shotgun, and I would go for the shotgun first if I needed it.

Also, an aside about the .22 caliber and assassins - if you get a headshot at close range, yes, you will kill someone.  But, if you are that lucky, a knife would probably work just as well for you.  Much of the damage caused by a round hitting a body is due to 'hydroshock'.  This is the shockwave the bullet sends through the body.  22's simply don't have enough power to cause any kind of damage other than a small perforation in the body, so it takes a well placed shot.  A .45 or other large round not only perforates, but sends a devestating shockwave through the body, damaging organs and putting the body into a state of shock.

_____________________________

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. No, seriously. They have t-shirts for everything nowadays.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:06:44 AM   
InkedMaster


Posts: 342
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
Well for home defense, like others have said here, I would go with the Mossburg 12 Gauge Pump. If your mindset is a handgun, and you want trouble free, stay with a Double Action revolver, I have a Ruger SP101 .357 Snub, takes 5 rounds and you can use a speedloader to load quickly. The .357 also takes a .38 cal round, cheaper than buying .357 ammo, stay with hollow points. Semi Autos can jam, but with that being said my Colt Officers .45 is my handgun of choice for carry and home defense. My personal opinion, a smaller caliber handgun and shooting just to fuck em up a lil bit will do 1 of 2 things, A...probably will not stop a meth head, just piss em off and then you're fucked or B...you'll find yourself in court with a lawsuit filed by the meth head for assaulting him. Fucked up ain't it?

_____________________________

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RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:06:46 AM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


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Joined: 2/5/2004
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A 12 Gage shotgun loaded with Buck is recommended for home defense,WE keep a couple around loaded fully after all an empty gun spells doom ..bounty

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:07:35 AM   
ISODaddy4BBW


Posts: 3
Joined: 9/5/2007
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Lots of good advice here, some not so good (looks at the sawed off shotgun comment).  I would suggest finding a gun club with a shooting range within driving distance from your home.  Go there and tell them what you are looking for and *most* of them will have a variety of weapons you can test fire and get a feel for.  You must find something you are comfortable with.  If you should ever have to use it you dont want it to be unbalanced, hard to use, or uncomfortable in your hand.  I come from, and followed in the footsteps of, a long line of gun collecting law enforcement pros.  Even with that it still took me a good while to find exactly what I wanted and was comforatble with for daily carry.  It is not just a caliber you need to worry with, but different brands weigh different or are set up different.  Being right or left handed can also make a difference.  With the gun club you can take saftey classes, get in experience with firing and reloading as well as proper cleaning (dirty guns jam, a jammed gun is only as good as the person swinging it).  Even if you do not intend to carry the gun on your person you should consider a CCW class also.  Another good thing about a gun club is that sometimes you can get real good deals on used weapons from other members.  Good luck and safe wishes to you.  I know how scary it is to be burglerized and worry about worse things. 

*edited because...spelling is hard so early *

< Message edited by ISODaddy4BBW -- 9/9/2007 7:08:30 AM >

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:14:12 AM   
spkmepls


Posts: 6
Joined: 8/20/2005
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It's refreshing to see a thread that's pro-gun.  i'm a revolver girl myself.. go to the range often, licenced to carry and now that my child is grown and gone, keep a few loaded for use if necessary.  An unloaded gun is useless as is one in the hands of someone not trained.

(in reply to instynctive)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:20:14 AM   
Crush


Posts: 1031
Status: offline
A few things for you to consider:

1) You don't shoot to kill.  You shoot to "STOP" the agressor.  If he dies, he dies.  Just be the first one to call 911...usually the first one to call is considered the victim.  And you aren't the police, so you don't have to tell the bad guy to "put his gun down" or such.  If you are in fear for your life, you take action to save your life.  End of story.  Meth heads need BIG rounds to keep them down.

1a) Use a sufficiently powerful round to STOP the intruder.   A .22LR is not a good self-defense round.  Birdshot is not a good self-defense round either.   Use a big enough bullet, such as a .38 or 9mm or better.   And in a shotgun, use a round that is sufficient to STOP that intruder.  Check out http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm for info on shotgun rounds.

2) A shotgun is a good choice, since it isn't a handgun and there are all sorts of nanny laws about handguns.  (Since you are in Illinois, one of the "worst" states for permitting residents to defend themselves, be sure to read over the following from Handgunlaw.US :  http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm   It is the link to the laws regarding hangduns in your state.) 

3) For personal defense, a revolver is a good choice.   Most encounters are three 3s.  Three yards, three seconds, three shots.   A S&W .38 is good.   Even better with the laser sight grips.  BUT you do have to practice!   A revolver, in general, will "kick" more than a pistol, since nothing but your arm is going to handle the recoil. And you don't have to remember to chamber a round with a pistol.   You point and pull the trigger and it goes "bang" and the bullet goes out the end.

3a) Most pistols (semi-automatic hanguns) today are fairly reliable.  One problem is that some people don't carry "one in the pipe" so you have to load that first round.  Not something you want to do if you are in a self-defense situation.   If you don't feel comfortable carrying a round loaded in the chamber, then don't use a pistol.

4) Training...did I say Training?   Be sure to get some!  And range time, so you know what it will feel like to shoot.  What it sounds like.  What it will smell like.   And to help insure that when you decide to use your weapon, you will use it properly.

5) Securing your firearm.   Make damn sure it is available when you need it but not something the kids will be able to use.   If you go with a handgun, then there are safes that require a second to open and are  secured with a fingerprint reader. A bit harder to do with a shotgun.  But NEVER have your self defense weapon secured with a keyed lock.  

6) Remember the "Four Laws of Gun Safety"  (http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~dss/gun-safety.htm)
A) A GUN IS ALWAYS CONSIDERED LOADED B) NEVER POINT A GUN AT SOMETHING YOU DON"T WANT TO DESTROY C) ALWAYS BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEHIND IT and D) KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

7) Have the name of a good attorney handy/on file/in your head.   When the police come you say only "I was in fear for my life.  They came at me.  I believe they were going to hurt me.   I really want to tell you more, but I need some time to recover and I want to talk to my attorney first before I make any further statements."   Just be sure that you've called 911, made sure the Bad Guy doesn' t have access to a weapon and that you don't have the gun pointed at the police when they arrive....put the darn thing down.

You may end up in jail overnight.  You may find yourself grilled a bit.   Just invoke that right to speak to your attorney and shut the f* up. 

Deciding to use a lethal weapon, such as a gun of some sort, is a life-altering choice. You aren't using a weapon to protect your property.  You are using a weapon to protect yourself or someone you care about.  IF you make the choice, be SURE you are willing to make that choice if the time comes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OR, the short version for self defense:   A good shotgun,  possibly with a pistol stock (easier to move inside a building with a pistol grip instead of a standard stock), with a self defense choice of ammo.   I like the Mossberg shotguns, but that's because I own one.  Inexpensive as well to buy, shoot, and are very reliable and easy to maintain.

Talk with some folks at the gun shops and tell them what your concerns are.  Most will help you out fairly.

Edited to add:  DOH!  Missed some of the posts above me...Even briefer:  What they said!


< Message edited by Crush -- 9/9/2007 7:34:05 AM >

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:24:02 AM   
sweiss


Posts: 1
Joined: 10/3/2006
Status: offline
I own 2 glocks and go to the range to practice. As the other have said if you shoot you shoot to kill,dead men tell no tails,end of story. I havs a ccw license and carry a .45 loaded and chambered on me most of the time. I do not want to to a victim I want to walk away and live another day. The glocks are easy to clean,all guns should be cleaned and looked after going to the range. I am not a revolver kind of shooter and all guns required maintence. Just get one that you like the feel of and practice as much as possible and don't forget to know the laws where you live.

(in reply to spkmepls)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:35:53 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InfernoMDM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: instynctive

Something else that needs to be realized is that during home defense, the whole point is to thwart the invasion, not kill someone.  Even if the law does not punish the homeowner for taking a human life, that's something that person will have to live with, and that level of responsibility can have lasting effects on a person's well-being.



I will totally agree with the shot gun specifically a sawed off (illegal) shotgun is the all time best home defense.

Basically bigger holes make things die faster so I would recommend nothing less than 40 cal. approaching 1000 ft/lbs. or better.

as far as shooting to let live is concerned, well heh... thats a great way to get sued.   dead men dont talk, neither do they sue.



First off your a idiot if you have a sawed off.  It will actually decrease the killing potnential of the shot, by not getting up to speed and keeping the patern.

As for your bigger hole issue, there is so little differnce inbetween a 9mm-45ACP when it comes to hollow point(and thats all you should have in self defense), that its a non issue.  I don't know where you got your info but you need to get a update.

Shotgun - All military and LE tests pretty much say for home defense don't drop below #4 buck period.

I don't know where you guys are getting your gun info, but it seems to be skewing off into the world of myths.




Kool and what is the spread?  and what is the speed?  How slow is to slow?   How little difference is "so little"?  Why is it a nonissue?

A cop bud of mine sawed one off for his wife. (must be a complete idiot)

Hollow points?  So?



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to InfernoMDM)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:42:07 AM   
InfernoMDM


Posts: 51
Joined: 3/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: InfernoMDM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: instynctive

Something else that needs to be realized is that during home defense, the whole point is to thwart the invasion, not kill someone.  Even if the law does not punish the homeowner for taking a human life, that's something that person will have to live with, and that level of responsibility can have lasting effects on a person's well-being.



I will totally agree with the shot gun specifically a sawed off (illegal) shotgun is the all time best home defense.

Basically bigger holes make things die faster so I would recommend nothing less than 40 cal. approaching 1000 ft/lbs. or better.

as far as shooting to let live is concerned, well heh... thats a great way to get sued.   dead men dont talk, neither do they sue.



First off your a idiot if you have a sawed off.  It will actually decrease the killing potnential of the shot, by not getting up to speed and keeping the patern.

As for your bigger hole issue, there is so little differnce inbetween a 9mm-45ACP when it comes to hollow point(and thats all you should have in self defense), that its a non issue.  I don't know where you got your info but you need to get a update.

Shotgun - All military and LE tests pretty much say for home defense don't drop below #4 buck period.

I don't know where you guys are getting your gun info, but it seems to be skewing off into the world of myths.




Kool and what is the spread?  and what is the speed?  How slow is to slow?   How little difference is "so little"?  Why is it a nonissue?

A cop bud of mine sawed one off for his wife. (must be a complete idiot)

Hollow points?  So?


Yes if your Cop friend cut it off from a 18 inch to a less then legal size he isn't to bright.  Depending on how much you cut down a shotgun determins its effects, but amoos does as well.  The time for getting caught with a unregistered short barrel shotgun isn't worth it.  Now he could have it cut to 18 inches say from 22+ which is fine.

There is s little differnce if you look at my previous post I show photos(linked) of the differnce.  check out tacticalforums.com these guys are all in the industry trying to make a better bullet, or get the right info to the men who shoot.  You can look it up.

Genereally speaking anything from 9-45 will go about 13 inches depending on grains.  The larger rounds however have a slight(yes slight) advantage when traveling through walls etc.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:46:39 AM   
ArgoGeorgia


Posts: 256
Joined: 2/9/2007
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Kool and what is the spread?  and what is the speed?  How slow is to slow?   How little difference is "so little"?  Why is it a nonissue?

A cop bud of mine sawed one off for his wife. (must be a complete idiot)

Hollow points?  So?


No, he's not an idiot.  He's a cop.  Many times they are above the law for things like this.  Think his cop buddies would arrest him for that?  No way.  You, on the other hand, may not be so lucky. 

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:51:29 AM   
master218711


Posts: 17
Joined: 6/9/2007
From: Maryland
Status: offline
Having been trained by the State and having to qualify on State Ranges for the last 24 years, and before that having to qualify with the US Army Military Police for 5 years, not to mention for one year having to qualify on another states State Police Range, and having the training that Police Officers go thru, I think that this is good advice.  Remember those words, "I was just trying to stop him from killing me".   This shows that you were in fear of your life, and that you were not trying to kill but just stop the person from killing you.  Remember if anyone asks you were shooting at center of mass.  That is where all good ranges and training tells you to shoot at.  "Center of Mass".  Anyone asks what that is, it is the area in the center of the chest where the body is the biggest.  The four rules he has quoted below are good however I want to make sure everyone knows this one again.  C) ALWAYS BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEHIND IT.  You do not need to kill your wife, child, or friend who just happened by and the door was unlocked so he or she walked in.  Likewise you do not need to kill an intruder and have the bullet go thru him/her and the wall to the next house and kill a sleeping child in their bed.  Having said that, I will state that I would give the intruder a verbal warning.  Course that is my training, a normal person would not be expected to do this.  course my verbal warning would be something like, "freeze, do not move or I will shoot."  and yelling it instead of just saying it.  Since I live in the boon docks and the police response time to my house is about 15 mins or longer I have a glock 45 with hollow points and a snub nose 38 with hollow points.  not to mention my 308 rifle, and shotgun with slug rounds.  There are reasons for this.  If I was in the city I would not have the powerful ones I do have.  Out in the country like I am even if the round goes thru the wall and out it will hit a tree before it gets to any house or person around my farm.  I will end this by saying, it is better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

A few things for you to consider:

1) You don't shoot to kill.  You shoot to "STOP" the agressor.  If he dies, he dies.  Just be the first one to call 911...usually the first one to call is considered the victim.  And you aren't the police, so you don't have to tell the bad guy to "put his gun down" or such.  If you are in fear for your life, you take action to save your life.  End of story.  Meth heads need BIG rounds to keep them down.

1a) Use a sufficiently powerful round to STOP the intruder.   A .22LR is not a good self-defense round.  Birdshot is not a good self-defense round either.   Use a big enough bullet, such as a .38 or 9mm or better.   And in a shotgun, use a round that is sufficient to STOP that intruder.  Check out http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm for info on shotgun rounds.

2) A shotgun is a good choice, since it isn't a handgun and there are all sorts of nanny laws about handguns.  (Since you are in Illinois, one of the "worst" states for permitting residents to defend themselves, be sure to read over the following from Handgunlaw.US :  http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm   It is the link to the laws regarding hangduns in your state.) 

3) For personal defense, a revolver is a good choice.   Most encounters are three 3s.  Three yards, three seconds, three shots.   A S&W .38 is good.   Even better with the laser sight grips.  BUT you do have to practice!   A revolver, in general, will "kick" more than a pistol, since nothing but your arm is going to handle the recoil. And you don't have to remember to chamber a round with a pistol.   You point and pull the trigger and it goes "bang" and the bullet goes out the end.

3a) Most pistols (semi-automatic hanguns) today are fairly reliable.  One problem is that some people don't carry "one in the pipe" so you have to load that first round.  Not something you want to do if you are in a self-defense situation.   If you don't feel comfortable carrying a round loaded in the chamber, then don't use a pistol.

4) Training...did I say Training?   Be sure to get some!  And range time, so you know what it will feel like to shoot.  What it sounds like.  What it will smell like.   And to help insure that when you decide to use your weapon, you will use it properly.

5) Securing your firearm.   Make damn sure it is available when you need it but not something the kids will be able to use.   If you go with a handgun, then there are safes that require a second to open and are  secured with a fingerprint reader. A bit harder to do with a shotgun.  But NEVER have your self defense weapon secured with a keyed lock.  

6) Remember the "Four Laws of Gun Safety"  (http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~dss/gun-safety.htm)
A) A GUN IS ALWAYS CONSIDERED LOADED B) NEVER POINT A GUN AT SOMETHING YOU DON"T WANT TO DESTROY C) ALWAYS BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEHIND IT and D) KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

7) Have the name of a good attorney handy/on file/in your head.   When the police come you say only "I was in fear for my life.  They came at me.  I believe they were going to hurt me.   I really want to tell you more, but I need some time to recover and I want to talk to my attorney first before I make any further statements."   Just be sure that you've called 911, made sure the Bad Guy doesn' t have access to a weapon and that you don't have the gun pointed at the police when they arrive....put the darn thing down.

You may end up in jail overnight.  You may find yourself grilled a bit.   Just invoke that right to speak to your attorney and shut the f* up. 

Deciding to use a lethal weapon, such as a gun of some sort, is a life-altering choice. You aren't using a weapon to protect your property.  You are using a weapon to protect yourself or someone you care about.  IF you make the choice, be SURE you are willing to make that choice if the time comes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OR, the short version for self defense:   A good shotgun,  possibly with a pistol stock (easier to move inside a building with a pistol grip instead of a standard stock), with a self defense choice of ammo.   I like the Mossberg shotguns, but that's because I own one.  Inexpensive as well to buy, shoot, and are very reliable and easy to maintain.

Talk with some folks at the gun shops and tell them what your concerns are.  Most will help you out fairly.

Edited to add:  DOH!  Missed some of the posts above me...Even briefer:  What they said!


(in reply to Crush)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:51:34 AM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
Status: offline
I'll stick with target shot.. a) it's cheap as hell, b) I can unload 5 rounds into someone with a fair amount of speed and accuracy and c) I don't want to spend a weekend fixing my walls.  Granted, the bulk of the rounds will be busy making someone's insides into chunky salsa, but the ones that stray outside of the silhouette will only need to be sanded, spackled and repainted.

Unless it's turkey season, then the idiot who breaks in gets a torso full of heavy turkey shot via a fully-modified choke.... heh heh heh

This is assuming, of course, that I get to the intruder before the dogs do...  or one of the barn cats.. those felines are pretty ferocious...


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(in reply to ArgoGeorgia)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:52:35 AM   
InfernoMDM


Posts: 51
Joined: 3/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ArgoGeorgia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Kool and what is the spread?  and what is the speed?  How slow is to slow?   How little difference is "so little"?  Why is it a nonissue?

A cop bud of mine sawed one off for his wife. (must be a complete idiot)

Hollow points?  So?


No, he's not an idiot.  He's a cop.  Many times they are above the law for things like this.  Think his cop buddies would arrest him for that?  No way.  You, on the other hand, may not be so lucky. 


Yeah because if anyone but his close friends finds out I bet you cash he will get busted.  Several cops have gotten turned in for that.  Now if he payed his 200 dollar tax stamp he is ok.  Generally most don't. 

(in reply to ArgoGeorgia)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:53:39 AM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: master218711

Having been trained by the State and having to qualify on State Ranges for the last 24 years, and before that having to qualify with the US Army Military Police for 5 years, not to mention for one year having to qualify on another states State Police Range, and having the training that Police Officers go thru, I think that this is good advice.  Remember those words, "I was just trying to stop him from killing me".   This shows that you were in fear of your life, and that you were not trying to kill but just stop the person from killing you.  Remember if anyone asks you were shooting at center of mass.  That is where all good ranges and training tells you to shoot at.  "Center of Mass".  Anyone asks what that is, it is the area in the center of the chest where the body is the biggest.  The four rules he has quoted below are good however I want to make sure everyone knows this one again.  C) ALWAYS BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEHIND IT.  You do not need to kill your wife, child, or friend who just happened by and the door was unlocked so he or she walked in.  Likewise you do not need to kill an intruder and have the bullet go thru him/her and the wall to the next house and kill a sleeping child in their bed.  Having said that, I will state that I would give the intruder a verbal warning.  Course that is my training, a normal person would not be expected to do this.  course my verbal warning would be something like, "freeze, do not move or I will shoot."  and yelling it instead of just saying it.  Since I live in the boon docks and the police response time to my house is about 15 mins or longer I have a glock 45 with hollow points and a snub nose 38 with hollow points.  not to mention my 308 rifle, and shotgun with slug rounds.  There are reasons for this.  If I was in the city I would not have the powerful ones I do have.  Out in the country like I am even if the round goes thru the wall and out it will hit a tree before it gets to any house or person around my farm.  I will end this by saying, it is better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6.


Yup.  To all of it.

And I love My .308 semi-auto.. :-)  Talk about "reach out and touch someone".. :-)


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(in reply to master218711)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:56:55 AM   
ArgoGeorgia


Posts: 256
Joined: 2/9/2007
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InfernoMDM

Yeah because if anyone but his close friends finds out I bet you cash he will get busted.  Several cops have gotten turned in for that.  Now if he payed his 200 dollar tax stamp he is ok.  Generally most don't. 



Inferno, I can only hope that is the case.  Because I see to much in the news nowadays that would suggest otherwise.  Accountability seems to be a thing of the past, along with government being the servant of the people. 

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(in reply to InfernoMDM)
Profile   Post #: 40
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