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RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 1:42:25 PM   
Emperor1956


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A couple of things, because I haven't finished this thread and its being done to death, but...

While I'm a big fan of the shotgun, why is everyone pushing a pump gun on this fella?  Don't get me wrong, I own two (along with several other competition and hunting shotguns), and my Mossberg Marine 500 is my primary home defense gun, but in fact if you've shot a shotgun at all, you've short shucked it at least once...and this newbie is gonna do it when he needs to have a shell in the chamber.   I'm all for a shotgun, but why not a semi-auto.  He can get a decent gun for under $300, and not worry about short shucking a round when he's in the heat.

As for the fabled "cut down" -- Yes, reducing the barrel below 15" plays hell with your spread pattern.  But people who use sawed-offs don't care about that.  The point of a cut down barrell is that it can be easily concealed, quickly whipped out from under a trenchcoat or wedding gown, and usually the shooter isn't worried about spread patterns because he or she is 10 feet away from the target. 

And by the way, an illegally sized shotgun is a Federal beef -- your buddy the local cop is just as likely, maybe even MORE likely, to get nailed for it.  I do have a Feebie friend who will modify your barrels to exactly the legal limit.  and not a sou lower.

E.

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"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to InfernoMDM)
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RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 2:22:24 PM   
Joseff


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I think this is just what you need, the Ruger MarkIII. It is .22 calibre, extremely well balanced, and one of the most accurate pistols I've ever encountered. Also, it resembles the German Luger, the most recognised handgun in the world.
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAFamily?type=Pistol&subtype=Rimfire%20Autoloading&famlst=55
Joseff

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 4:12:17 PM   
SeanPony


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I have one of those Ruger Mark III pistols and yes they are so damn nice to shoot and dead on accurate.

The only thing I did not like was the black plastic grips that it came with.

So I made some from zebrawood custom fitted to my hand and now it's perfect.

(in reply to Joseff)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 4:53:21 PM   
InfernoMDM


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22s are never good self defense guns.  Especially when the guy is druged up and trying to kill you.

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 5:16:25 PM   
Crush


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Semi-auto shotgun...damn good idea...hmmm, I always buy a handgun on 9/11 and a long gun on 4/15, but maybe I'll just have to change on Tuesday and pick that up instead !



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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 6:24:28 PM   
Real0ne


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check this out.
When ya shoot this baby that barrel literally does not move. (up that is) 

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=12761&tabselected=over&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=

Down side is you have to reload if you are going to shoot a lot.   Unless you have deep pockets and can afford the ammo.  lol

Personally i would love to own one of these babies but that would be second to a 65-284..





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RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 7:39:14 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Petronius

If your idea of buying a gun is to "fuck them up a bit" then you should not be buying a gun until you know what guns should be used for.

Once you do, the old pump 12 is still the best weapon to defend life and property.

It also seems to me that if you're being robbed, a security system that consists of alarms and cameras is not a substitute for good doors, good locks, and window grates. You want to keep them out rather than have nifty pictures of them breaking in.

If, however, you still want to get a gun, I suggest you look up your local firing range or shooting club in the yellow pages, go there, and talk to several members about your desires.




They have stolen stuff, from right next to the back door(you have to walk like 75 foot from the alley to that area so they are pretty ballsy, as there is no denying they are up to mischief if a cop had happened by), they haven't successfully entered. It appears the back door was messed with in an attempt to enter, but unsuccessfully. So, the premise is since they messed with it before (unsuccessful entry), they may return with a tool or something, or whatever.

The security stuff with cameras is a deterrent to trying to get in and possible means of catching someone even if they don't succeed as well as a means of seeing what is happening without having to physically endanger myself.

The gun or shotgun as I'm now leaning toward, is for if they after seeing the lights turn on, hearing the alarm go off, and seeing that they are on cameras, still decide to enter. It's doubtful if someone entering after hearing/seeing all of those things, will have anything on there mind other than violence. We are also looking at a 6' foot chain link fence. I do have two dogs, though there pen isn't in the area were the theft occured, thus the expansion of the fence.

I think I'm doing everything reasonably possible.

(in reply to Petronius)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Gun Question - 9/9/2007 8:33:22 PM   
thompsonx


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NeedToUseYou:
If you are going to use a shotgun use a 12 gauge pump with a 20" riot barrel (they are legal and you can always put the longer one back on if you want to go to the range and shoot clay birds)and #4 buck (you get 22 .38 cal pellets)
If you use a hand gun a government model .45 is pretty cheap. If you get one from Springfield Armory or Thompson Center.  They are not as pretty as the Colt factory units but they work just as well.  They are under $400 new and about half that used.  Surplus GI ammo is dirt cheap so you can practice without taking out a second mortgage.  Even cheaper is to punch out the primers from some spent casings and enlarge the hole and load them with rifle primers and plastic bullets(no powder) and practice in your garage for really cheap.
All this crap about shooting to kill will only get you a no neck roommate named bubba...shot him in the foot and he will sit down while you call the cops.  Many states have laws that prevent criminals from suing if they are injured in the commission of a felony.
thompson

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Gun Question - 9/10/2007 11:30:15 AM   
SimplyMichael


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To nobody in particular...

ALL firearm projectiles cause hydrostatic disruption, essentially a “bubble” moving through the body, velocity and bullet diameter affecting the size of that bubble.  Unless that shock wave hits an inflexible tissue such as a liver or a major artery, the primary cause of destruction is still the immediate path of the bullet.  Thus 9mm hollowpoints (assuming they open) causing similar damage to a 45 auto.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Martin_Fackler 

What all this boils down to is no matter how big your penis extender is, if you can’t shoot it well, it is useless.  One of the reasons that the FBI dropped the 10mm and went back to the 9mm is rapid fire with the 9mm is easier than with the 10mm.

My modest experience in firearms began when I worked as a kid for the largest private machinegun dealer in the US (Sam Cummings had most gotten out of the business and if you don’t know who he is, we clearly aren’t in the same league).  I have had two gunstores, refinished 1911s, 1896 Mausers, M1 Garands, Stens, Thompsons, 25 to 50 at a time, I have build 100 M1 Garands in a day starting with stripped receivers.  I have personally met Mikhail Kalashnikov, my library is filled with books signed by authors, not the gun digest crap but people like Fred Datig and Thomas Nelson.  I can look at most military gun parts, down to individual pins and springs and not only tell you what gun they go to but in the case of things like Mausers and AKs but probably which country made them.  I have been an expert witness in court cases involving firearms.  And while I am not the best shot around I can hit a man sized target with my Browning at 200 yards often enough to not worry about doing it at 100.

So, like all experts I am full of shit but a bit less than some so take what I say with a grain of salt.

All guns are lethal or at least in the hands of someone competent or unlucky.  NOTHING counts as much as shot placement.  A well placed .22lr is far more lethal than a poorly placed super duper magnum penis extender.  The tiniest gun in your pocket beats ANYTHING sitting at home in the dresser.  No matter how stoned someone is, everyone recognizes the sound of a 12 ga shotgun being loaded and most respond accordingly.  Most firearms used in self defense are never fired, the mere presence of one, no matter how tiny ends the confrontation.  The only people who know less about firearms than your average military guy is almost any cop.  Just a few fun firearm’s facts.  One more, when you go to a range (or a police locker room) look up.  Those holes in the roof were made by idiots, don’t be one, keep that muzzle downrange.

Revolvers, a good one like a S&W is a great gun.  Utterly reliable and as safe as a firearm can be, they do NOT go off accidentally.  Require the least training of any firearm to handle safely and effectively.  A .357 is the best choice if you get a larger revolver as you can practice with lightly loaded cheap .38 ammo and carry expensive hi velocity hollow points to shoot people with.  A nice alternative is the small 5 shot like a model 60 or the super light models they make now.  Get one in .38 as the recoil is a bit harsh due to the lack of weight.  They are slow to reload, VERY slow but if you aren’t carrying spare mags for your auto, there is no difference.  I highly recommend revolvers for people who aren’t “into” guns but want something small to carry.

I prefer a single action auto, double action is a solution to a non-existent problem.  Beretta’s are modified Walther p38s and share the same problem, they crack slides and locking blocks, don’t like them.  Sigs are very accurate but ask at any indoor range about how well they hold up under use, they crack slides and break constantly.  Good 1911s work and have few faults.  I carry a late model Browning HP with the side extractor as the earlier extractors break and are hard to find, all HPs break slide stops so I have a few spares.  When I am serious I carry the HP with an Inglis 14rnd mag in the gun and two Megar 20 rounders as spares figuring if that isn’t enough I should have run in the first place.  Auto’s require skill to use, even more skill to clear a jam and are bulky and not as safe to carry as a revolver (for the less skilled) which is why I do not recommend them to the sort of people who ask for recommendations.

Shotguns are the most lethal things civilians can own, their only drawback is range, even with slugs you are limited to 100 yards.  They are awkward to carry in purses and such and so most people keep them at home.  For home use, NOTHING is better.  Since most confrontations consist of someone outside with you inside, racking that shotgun and yelling “I got a gun” ends the problem right there and if it doesn’t you are REALLY fucking glad you have a shotgun.  Buck shot is a good choice but it really doesn’t matter at those sort of ranges.  You can miss with a shotgun even an 18 inch riot gun.  At 10 feet the majority of the shot is in a pattern smaller than you hand.  Using a shotgun takes some training, more complex than a revolver by far but a bit less than a pistol.

If you are interested in getting a handgun, here is how I teach people and when I do teach people they leave the range outshooting 99% of the people there after an hour or two.  Go to a range where you can rent handguns, rent a Ruger .22lr auto and ask the range officer to show you how to shoot it.  Learn trigger control and proper sight picture.  When you can shoot under a 1” group at 7 yards, you are ready to try a larger handgun.  Sight picture and trigger control are everything.

Oh, and every recognized firearms attorney and those who study and write about defensive handgun use recomend "shooting to stop" someone, not shooting them in the foot nor wounding them.  Shoot for center mass.  You feared for your life and were just trying to stop them. 

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Gun Question - 9/10/2007 12:24:52 PM   
GhitaAmati


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Pretty much everything I would say has already been said here.

As far as the OP goes....my carry pistol is a Taurus PT145, .45 cal yet small enough to carry well, and fits well into my rather small hands. Most semi-auto's Ive held belonging to my Sir and his friends, I can barely get my finger around the trigger.....S&W is making a line of handguns designed for a smaller hand now also.....I love the fact that I was able to find a compact, easy to carry semi-auto, in a larger caliber like that. Im also a pretty big fan of the Taurus....their whole lifetuime guarantee is pretty awesome. Doesnt matter what damage, ship it to them and they will fix it or replace it, no questions. My 45, I bought used for $150...every 4th or 5th shot the weapon would jam....bought it anyway, shipped it to Taurus, 2 months later it came back compleatly rebuilt and shoots like a dream now....easily would have cost me $400 in its current condition at the pawn shop.....

Ive never been a fan of revolvers, although I do own a few of my grandfathers.

Home defense....I have a mossberg pistol grip 12ga pump action shotun, filled with birdshot....heavy enough to stop an intruder, not quite as likely to go through several walls into my kids bedroom. I also have a remington 12ga shoulder stock that I use for turkey shoots at the VFW but the barrels a bit longer than I would normally choose for home defense...have used it fairly often on rouge rabbits and other damaging small animals in my garden though....

Gun range fun.....oh boy...lemme see here.....newest toy is a M1919 belt fed 30 cal.....can only shoot it at two ranges in the state of florida, but its a rather great conversation peice. A rather extensive collection of assault rifles, quite a few bolt actions, and a Thompson M1A1.....

Sir's got many many many many more than I do..............

The oldest UM has a 22 rifle, and the second oldest has his own bb gun......

--------------

on a related note...while my Sir has used quite a few firearms on quite a few people in his life.....I have only once pulled a firearm on anyone....about 6 years ago I realized someone was trying to break into the window of my vehicle outside. I grabbed the closest weapon I had...and walked out on the front porch and leveled it at the guy and hollared. Guy took one look and ran as fast as he could, never to be seen again.......what did I hold in my hand? This huge ancient double barreled shotgun that had been dug up from underneath an old barn.....thing has been in the ground for at least 60 years...there is no way it would ever fire again.....I had been cleaning it up just as a collection peice.....but just the look of me holding it in dim light was enough....and if he'd tried to attack me I always coulda knocked him out with the butt of the thing I guess.  The one time Ive ever been shot at, I wasnt carrying....started carrying the very next week. My pickup still has a .22 slug in the side of it though...but that was job related....

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RE: Gun Question - 9/10/2007 1:11:22 PM   
ArgoGeorgia


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I mean, seriously, is there anything hotter than a woman talking guns like the women on this thread?  Well, maybe firing automatic rifles while naked, but still..... 

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Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. No, seriously. They have t-shirts for everything nowadays.

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Gun Question - 9/10/2007 1:34:00 PM   
GhitaAmati


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could you imagine the burns from expelled shells????? ouch....

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I said I was a submissive, I never said I was a GOOD submissive.


Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.
~Woody Allen

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Gun Question - 9/10/2007 2:11:41 PM   
ArgoGeorgia


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Hmmmm, good point.  Although that might be a benefit for some folks as well.....

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Gun Question - 9/10/2007 2:22:57 PM   
Emperor1956


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Amen, brother.   Only one further thought: 
quote:

SimplyMichael:  Just a few fun firearm’s facts.  One more, when you go to a range (or a police locker room) look up.  Those holes in the roof were made by idiots, don’t be one, keep that muzzle downrange.


And the holes in the floor?   They were made by those idiots on the desk who limp a little when they move around.

E

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Gun Question - 9/10/2007 2:45:33 PM   
Crush


Posts: 1031
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ArgoGeorgia

I mean, seriously, is there anything hotter than a woman talking guns like the women on this thread?  Well, maybe firing automatic rifles while naked, but still..... 


Oh yeah....I love watching Mrs. Crush popping away at the targets...she's pretty deadly with her .38 (S&W 642 with Crimson Trace laser grips)   She says "I'll put it wherever that red dot is" and she gets pretty close every time..within an inch!

Though naked, not yet...and with a revolver, no empties to worry about burning sensitive bits!

(in reply to ArgoGeorgia)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Gun Question - 9/10/2007 3:36:00 PM   
Jack45


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Try a Beretta 9mm

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Gun Question - 9/10/2007 4:12:44 PM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
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Try a http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/1894centerfire/1894C.aspx



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RE: Gun Question - 9/10/2007 5:33:50 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
What all this boils down to is no matter how big your penis extender is, if you can’t shoot it well, it is useless.  One of the reasons that the FBI dropped the 10mm and went back to the 9mm is rapid fire with the 9mm is easier than with the 10mm.




I like the way you said it better!  ROTFLMAO!!

A 10 with no vents does have a robust kick cuz its so lite.  Will give ya nice blisters after about 150 rounds too LOL

I set mine up "just" so it fragments.  The rounds open up almost to the size of a quarter and begin to fragment off.

The kool thing about a 12ga is if it hits a bone on the way in with a slug you will literally wind up with buck shot when it fragments and that does serious damage.

There simply is not enough lead in a handgun round to match it.



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Gun Question - 9/10/2007 5:56:51 PM   
philosophy


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FR

....i don't have anything to add to the discussion of the relative merits of various firearms, but i am curious. How many people here have had to use one in civilian life in the US?
Please understand that although i, personally, have no desire to go around armed this is not meant as an anti-gun comment.....i'm just curious..........

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Gun Question - 9/10/2007 6:00:50 PM   
ArgoGeorgia


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Fortunately, I never have.  But, it's like insurance.  You never use it until you really need it, and if you really need it, something bad has happened. 

_____________________________

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. No, seriously. They have t-shirts for everything nowadays.

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Profile   Post #: 100
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