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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 7:52:25 AM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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I dig the ol' propster...She is actually one of the more intelligent women out here judging from the quality of her posts...Yeah, she lives a rather "extreme" lifestyle...But the chick does kind of rock...In an uncomfortable "Barry Manilowesque" style ...I mean you know all of the words you just don't want anyone watching you as you belt out one of his tunes at the top of your lungs.....

"Oh Proppy...You came and you gave without taking...But I sent you away...Oh Proppy, I choked you, till your body stopped shaking...And I need you today...Oh Proppy."

< Message edited by domiguy -- 9/20/2007 7:53:01 AM >

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Post #: 461

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 7:52:33 AM

UR2Badored

Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline

Okay fair enough, extremes aside, do you think mental compency and consent is an issue at all in any relationship?

A general statement:
If anyone does not believe that either mental compency and consent is an issue, please do us all a favor and stay away from your local Arc foundation and school yards.

Again, I do not know enough information about any individual on this site to make a comment on his or her compency in context to this discussion. My comments are actually regarding the general issue of compency and consent within a relationship as the topic has been raised. However, given the past few pages of posts, I have made judgements about individuals' comprehension skills.

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 9/20/2007 8:14:32 AM >

_____________________________

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Mark Twain

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 462

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 8:01:57 AM

immoral

Posts: 99
Joined: 6/9/2006
Status: offline

its a difficult thing for people outside a relationship to understand limits worked out in a relationship.( or the lack of) .i think it is a compatibility issue ( hence as ive no wish to have to say NO im not in a M/s partnership...really needs to be Mr Right not Mr right now.). all i can say is for myself if id have been stopped from performing my duty that would have been perceived by me to have been the very worst agony of all far above physical damage, and even if that reaction is warped by conditioning or whatever the reasons thats how i would have felt.well meaning people saying that you make decisions badly because you are almost *stocholm syndromesque* and who's to say if thats right or not,*attempting to stop what i wished whatever people might have thought my reasons to be would have merely caused more suffering i didnt want to be interrupted in my chosen lifestyle.When our relationship ended the gentle voice of reason( cards on the table conversations with concerned friends)helped *him* to walk away from me because i couldnt walk away from him ,however i wouldnt change a single thing about it apart from the bit where it ended. i realise in many ways im healthier happier saner and safer,.......but a life less ordinary, in sharp focus, in service and i find life without that dynamic far more distressing than life with it.

< Message edited by immoral -- 9/20/2007 8:02:57 AM >

(in reply to UR2Badored)

Post #: 463

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 8:05:34 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

Its just beyond the pale that theres even any debate over this. That supposedly rational people are defending someone who "consents" to getting bones broken and even the threat of death.......I am stunned and sickened by it... NOT EVERYTHING CAN BE PROTECTED UNDER THE "You can't criticize my kink" umbrella..... because weather you like it or not people there IS such a thing as right and wrong.....

i agree breatheasone, which is why i said in a much earlier post lol... that people are more interested in image than anything else. As chell kitty said - she's judgemental.. well newsflash folks, she's not the only one - she is just the only one with balls enough to anounce it.

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Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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Post #: 464

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 8:07:39 AM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

FR:

nope, nuh uh, BUZZ...the question is not (as UR2 pointed out) how extreme anyone wants to be...the point is, that legally, at this point in time, prop can NOT consent to any kind of adult interaction...with anyone, including her Daddy...and with relative ease and little to no cost, she could be declared competent with the help of a free lawyer through legal aide (i have been through having an adult declared incompetent, and though i don't know specifics, it is not impossible to have it reversed when it was decided based on mental health and not retardation)...

edited to add: please don't pick this apart....while i am identifying a problem, i am also trying to provide a solution...

ok so....i am quoting myself cause it doesn't apear that anyone read it back on page 22...and when i said "any kind of adult interaction" i didn't just mean BDSM...i meant even just plain ole vanilla sex...far as i know, between two consenting adults there is no gray area in the eyes of the law, in America, for two consenting adults to have sex....when an adult is declared incompetent it removes there ability to consent...if they are fine with taking this risk as a legal gardian...go right ahead...i personally, would not want someone i am in love with and devoted to to take the risk of having Bubba as a butt buddy for me....but thats just me...intolerant and judgemental...

chelle

edited for an errant apostrophe and a "thanks velvetears..."

< Message edited by chellekitty -- 9/20/2007 8:10:32 AM >

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Post #: 465

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 8:08:24 AM

Bobkgin

Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

Bob. Seriously. Listen. I am answering your questions here buddy.

quote:

They ignore the logical inconsistencies of their own arguments:
- how do you trust the word of someone you deem "mentally incompetent"?

I assume that the objective facts she relays are correct. If in fact they are not, my judgement does not stand. Once again, any argument can be defeated by simply saying "well none of what you say might have actually happened" - in fact I believe that's the tactic used by Holocaust deniers.

There are no "objective facts" when dealing with delusion. So you believe it because you want to believe it, not because you've taken her claim to have been "mentally incompetent" seriously enough to wonder how much of her story is true.

quote:

quote:

- how do you choose to believe some words (the descriptions of what Daddy does and the claims of being declared incompetent) while ignoring other words (Props frequent decalrations that her current situation is best for her)?

Because I am drawing a distinction between objective facts (this action happened) and subjective judgments (this action is a good thing).

So without any basis for it, you are discriminating against her judgment of what is good for her. Thus leaving the position open for you to decide what is good for her.

quote:

quote:

- how do you find fault with one process and validate the results of another process when you don't know the details of either?

I'm not finding fault with the process. I am saying that the Daddy in question is behaving in a manner that, if the state were aware of it, would make him an unfit guardian. That has nothing to do with the process itself aside from the fact that I assume they lied to the people involved about what went on in the house. The fact that they were less than forthcoming about the situation doesn't reflect on the process itself.

"They".

Somehow the state allowed a mentally incompetent individual to communicate and conspire with her 'abuser' such that he became her guardian?

This is the fault you are finding in the process.

quote:

quote:

- how do you present yourself as having compassion for the victim, yet demonstrate no compassion for Props and no concern for what happens to her if Daddy were jailed (as so many fervently wish)?

I have compassion for the victim in that I will say once again her Daddy should fucking knock it off. I alreay said it's up to her whether she wants him to go to jail. I'm not trying to get him arrested. I'm just saying dude stop injuring your fucking legal ward.

And if she wasn't his "legal ward"? What then?

quote:

quote:

These are fundamental inconsistencies that go to the core of their motive for arguing as they do: they don't like Props and they attack her and Daddy using whatever argument they can assemble, logic be damned.

You're right. The reason I have a problem with a man exposing his woman to broken bones, AIDS, staph infections and death is simply because I don't like the girl. If you honestly believe the reason I have a problem with this is because I don't *like* her, please say so now and save me a LOT of time that would be wasted with any further discussion.

I think it obvious to one and all that you telling Props to tell Daddy to "knock it off" isn't going to change anything.

Thus I find it hard to believe that you believe you've done anything more but rale against Daddy through Props.

You are not advising Props to do any of the things one would normally advise in an abusive situation.

No suggestion to call 911. No suggestion to call a rape-crisis centre, or any number of alternatives available to battered women.

No gentle explanation to Props about why this is wrong, why she needs to go get help.

It is in what is missing that I can see the dislike for Props. You do not treat her as a victim of abuse.

Have saved us from further discussion?

< Message edited by Bobkgin -- 9/20/2007 8:43:59 AM >

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When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

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Post #: 466

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 8:09:49 AM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

And I notice no one has responded to Bobs post -

quote:

Why else 'believe' everything she says about her relationship with Daddy -except- the part about how right this is for her?

Actually I did reply to that. I said there is a difference between believing objective facts (such as "x occurred on this date") as opposed to accepting subjective judgements (such as "x is in my best interest.")

quote:

And criticizing someone is also against TOS. Why a Mod hasn;t been around is their business, but truely - in answering the way you have because I made you aware of the TOS, is a mass of contradictions in itself with what you are discussing. Do you enjoy breaking the law because you haven't read the small print in reality? Do you think that would really hold up in a court? Why turn something into a witch hunt and make it personal, instead of focusing on the issue itself? Consent on Limits and what they mean.

Making judgements is healthy. Pretending or fooling yourself that everything we do is consensual - isn't.

Peace
the.dark.

I have read the TOS. I personally disagree with you that questioning the legality and morality of something is 'attacking' someone. I would and have questioned the morality of cheating and lying, so have plenty of other people, and there was no need to invoke the TOS.

I do apologize for the words I used yesterday (calling him a piece of shit, sick fuck, etc) as I do see how that would violate the TOS. In case you didn't notice, I'm no longer using those negative and insulting terms.

Anyway I'm through with this. Nobody seems to have any idea what I'm saying. I'm not questioning her right to live her life how she chooses. I'm questioning HIS actions and HIS intentions. Thats it, thats all. Not her choice of staying there, not edgeplay in general, not M/s dynamics in general, simply questioning why a man would consider it in his legal ward's best interest to break her bones and expose her to unprotected sex with men who beat her.

Everyone is looking at this from the slave perspective - her right to be with whoever she wants. I never once disputed that. His behavior and his motivations are what I've been questioning, and everyone seems to be skirting that issue in order to defend her right to be with him.

There are quite a few sticky issues here, regarding her competency, and his legal guardianship of her. Those are also questionable.

You're right in saying that just because her judgements don't agree with my own doesn't mean either of us are wrong, we just choose to live our lives differently. That's why I'm not criticizing her. Just him.

She's not asking him to break her bones, or have sex with strange men without protection, she explains it in a way that it's his choice what to do and not her place to question it. So I would hesitate to call this 'edgeplay' - she is tolerating it, not encouraging it.

I'm not her savior, but for people to say things like "we all die, why should her life mean any more to you than it does to her" really makes me wonder. I would assume you're just saying that in theory, not accepting that it very well might happen in reality.

If she did die, is that what you would tell her mother?

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 467

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 8:19:56 AM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
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i do have views about this but, i thought it was suggested that a new thread be started to address the issue of how mental competency relates to the ability to make an informed consent.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

quote:

ORIGINAL: UR2Badored

Okay fair enough, extremes aside, do you think mental compency and consent is an issue at all in any relationship?

A general statement:
If anyone does not believe that either mental compency and consent is an issue, please do us all a favor and stay away from your local Arc foundation and school yards.

Again, I do not know enough information about any individual on this site to make a comment on his or her compency in context to this discussion. My comments are actually regarding the general issue of compency and consent within a relationship as the topic has been raised. However, given the past few threads, I have made judgements about individuals' comprehension skills.

(in reply to UR2Badored)

Post #: 468

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 8:21:02 AM

UR2Badored

Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

i do have views about this but, i thought it was suggested that a new thread be started to address the issue of how mental competency relates to the ability to make an informed consent.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UR2Badored

Okay fair enough, extremes aside, do you think mental compency and consent is an issue at all in any relationship?

Wow, just wow! Feel free to participate, at any time, on the current discussion.

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 9/20/2007 8:28:39 AM >

_____________________________

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Mark Twain

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 469

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 8:21:34 AM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
Status: offline

Bob,

You highlighted the wrong sentence in red. The important one was the one after it - "If in fact they are not, my judgement does not stand." Meaning if these are delusions, I take back everything I said. My judgements are based on taking the objective facts to be facts. Her opinion is what I am debating, and countering with my own opinion.

You say "if she wasn't his legal ward, what then" - if she were someone ELSE'S legal ward I would wonder why that person didn't intervene. If she was found mentally competent and was NOBODY'S legal ward, I would be far more likely to accept the interaction as one between two consenting adults who are able to give consent. I would still be disgusted by his actions, but the question of consent would be much clearer.

Like I said, I'm not criticizing M/s relationships, or SM, or edgeplay. I'm replying to a very specific situation.

You're right, it would probably have been far more productive to talk to her, suggest she get help, talk to a counselor. My first thought was anger at him rather than sympathy for her simply because she is not asking for sympathy. She is proud of her situation. It would be presumptuous to try to convince her to get help from a women's shelter because she doesn't want help.

My point is this - she says as her master he has the *right* to do what he wants to her. That isn't what I'm taking issue with. It's the fact that he actually *does* these things for his own amusement that bothers me. And that is entirely a reflection of him, not her.

(in reply to xoxi)

Post #: 470

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 8:28:11 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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Using fast reply..........

Yesterday I began to read through this entire thread prompted by another thread and then life interupted. However, I have been thinking about it off and on.

Here is my own personal take on it.

Mostly, I feel that the subject and discussion has been sort of blown out of proportion due to the internet. ALL relationship, regardless of type have some sort of limit. The thing is, we just don't discuss them constantly and make huge issues about having them. Having them, establishing what they are is just a natural part of creating the relationship.

Example.....a work relationship. From the moment you interview there are limits being established. Many of those limits will be outlined in an employee handbook. Some of them are determined by laws. We just accept their existance as part and parcel of the existance of the relationship.

As children, we grow up with limits. First they are set by parents and other family members then teachers, and so forth.

I think, at least for me, the key to a sucessful relationship in this particular arena is like establishing any other relationship. We find mates that have compatible limits along with a myriad of other things we either conciously or not, measure one another by.

For myself, I want someone that our shared limits, match and compliment one another, to the degree that we DO NOT have to always think about them. They just exist as a part of who we are as people. Not something that has to be constantly brought out and belaboured and negotiated on a regular basis. Granted, relationships, like the people in them, are constantly growing and changing........but the core of who we are usually stays fairly consistant.

I guess I just see this as a topic that gets a bit over analysed due to this particular medium. I have never sat, in a social situation, with a group of people wether it be friends or family, and discussed my limits and how far will I go or expect my mate to go. Nor has it come up when getting to know a potential mate. Only on the net have I seen it.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to xoxi)

Post #: 471

RE: No Limits: Legal Consent - 9/20/2007 8:32:35 AM

UR2Badored

Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Using fast reply..........

Yesterday I began to read through this entire thread prompted by another thread and then life interupted. However, I have been thinking about it off and on.

As of yesterday, we are no longer discussing limits.........that was so two days ago <valley girl head tilt>......

Never in my real life have I heard a debate on the lack mental compency or consent in any relationship and whether or not it is okay.....welcome to the internet..

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 9/20/2007 8:50:10 AM >

_____________________________

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Mark Twain

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 472

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 8:33:20 AM

adaddysgirl

Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline

~FR~

Well i see the Drama Queens (DQs) have reared their ugly little heads once again....the ones that have all the answers to what is abuse, and what is not; what is legal and what is not; what is mental competence and what is not; what is consensual and what is not; etc, etc, etc

If prop (or anybody) were coming out here saying she was unhappy in her relationship; that she wanted to get out but couldn't because of money, kids, family, etc....then I can see others climbing on the "let me show you the way" bandwagon. But she's not....she's content with her choices...with her lifestyle....and so is her partner. So?

Is it the prior mental incompetence label that is REALLY getting people? So if Bita or ownedgirlie came out and said their partner can (or has) broken their bones....or lent them out with risk of catching disease....is that okay because they haven't been found mentally incompetent? Or are their partners "pieces of shit" too (which, btw, is a totally disgusting comment to make about someone else's partner).

So let's see if i can take a sig line from one of the Queen herself's posts:

There are no victims here...only volunteers.
Hmmm....i would say prop is definitely a volunteer. Doesn't sound like a victim to me.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.
Hmmm....seems like prop might be playing on the tracks and it sure doesn't sound like she's gonna bitch if she gets hit by that train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"
Hmmm....wonder if this is what both prop and her Daddy are sayin'?

Drama, drama, drama. Get over it!

Daddysgirl

(in reply to xoxi)

Post #: 473

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 8:34:56 AM

Bobkgin

Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UR2Badored

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

That's not my point.

You are judging her for not doing what you would do.

I think she has left building and is spending time with Elvis and Chellekitty

Anyway, You seem to be judging her by her not addressing the issue as you like. Just because some people do think it is a question of legal consent, does not mean they are refering to extremes and vice versa (apparently) Again, I think it is a bit unfair how this topic transpire, but a valid topic all the same.......Extremes and consent are so different viewpoints .....

This is off a "no limits" topic....It is not necessary a bad thing when a topic takes on momentum in a different direction....Someone should start a general mental compency and consent thread........That seems to be what is being argued now and that in itself is entirely separate and valid argument/topic. Bob, would you start a thread? Somebody? Anybody?

I've given thought to a spin-off, but honestly, those threads tend to become about me (I'll cite Rabbit as an example).

And I am not entirely convinced we've drifted off-topic here. Props claims to be in a "no limits" relationship. People have backed off from attacking the extremity and are now left with the legal issues, which as many have said is a bit ridiculous given the many activities and jurisdictions of BDSM.

Competency and "no limits" are directly related in the sense that many people consider "no limits" proof of incompetency (Rover and Rabbit argue this point).

Others disagree, or else claim the point is moot because they (like anyone else) are not required to prove competency unless forced to it by a shrink or court of law.

BDSM in the larger sense is about morality. Whom we choose for partners and who we refuse as partners is a morality issue.

How we judge Competency and No Limits and what we choose is a reflection on our morality.

Some believe in Live/Let Live.

Some believe in Judgment.

And the two groups will always argue.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to UR2Badored)

Post #: 474

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 8:34:58 AM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

By the time i posted my comments to your post, you had already edited it. i was commenting on what you had originally written, before editing it, in which you stated that people were not being judgmental about how some choose to live but, were only questioning the legal issues invovled. i was stating that there have been a number of comments posted on this thread that were, in my opinion, very judgmental.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

Personally, I can be highly judgemental of how people live, what people do, and anything else you can think of. I have a personal center and I determine the value of that personal center. Of course, the hard part is actually remembering to keep some broadness of mind about it and remember that my personal center isnt universal.

But I cant condemn people in this thread and say their posts are entirely a "bad thing". They found negativity in something being narrated here and spoke up about it, sharing an alternative viewpoint. Those posts had substance, logic, and went far beyond the normal close minded posts of "Well, I think everyone into scat is disqusting.". Thats sounds pretty cool to me.

I also dont understand how being "judgemental" translates to "close minded". I consider myself to be a very open minded person, not because I dont judge, but because I actually read the posts, wait a period of time before forming an opinion, and put some thought into it. I'm also willing to have those opinions revived if people actually provide additional information and not indignation.

I've read a lot of daddyprops posts. I've given her quite a bit of open mindness, considered her viewpoints, and rolled it around in my head. The end result is that I dont take her very serious or take her posts too much to heart.

She can keep right on posting. I'll even defend her right to. So can other people I dont take seriously and consider to be untruthful. A lot of other people have stated opinions regarding her truthfulness and they havent changed my opinion. If people want to beleive her, hey, thats cool.

If you dont want to beleive my posts or find negative value in them, thats fine. Speak up and challenge me. I will gladly debate, clarify or explain. I dont consider myself about correction or doubt in the least nor will I ignore your posts because of it.

You find negative value in judging. Thats cool to me and I am glad you have written a post about it. I dont find that negative value and am writing in rebuttal to that. Thats pretty cool to me so we are both cool.

Just please dont imply that I should take everyone serious after I have given them their time in the limelight to form an opinion. I dont take Bobgkin serious and find a lot of negative value in what he rights as well as his hypocricies. I dont take the 1000 year old BDSM society, the immortal Vampires, the True Old Guard, or the True Masters very serious. I dont take people who narrate their relationship as being devoid of ANY boundaries whatsoever very serious. I've found all these things to be lacking threw contradictions and inconsistencies.

If your going to imply that I should give the Immortal Vampire of House Trakador some degree of seriousness or consider his viewpoints to be valid when my logic and rational tells me to personally not take them serious, I consider it to be silly. If you think that we should all stop forming opinions and take what everyone says here to be true and accurate because we lack the means to prove a negative, then I consider that to be stalwarting actually learning some personal truth.

All these people can go right on doing whatever they are doing in their own little personal part of Idaho and they can go right on making these posts. But please dont imply that I should not share the issues I find negative value in and why I do. In my opinion, your just stomping out any room for rebuttal or exchanging of words under the guise of "open mindness and non judgement for all".

If you want to keep doing that, its cool. I'll keep debating you because I do take your posts seriously, Joy. And I will continue to supply my viewpoints and opinions regarding all these people I dont take serious or consider to be portraying their relationships in an honest way so other people can form opinions and actually learn something.

Dont take my opinions to heart, though and allow them to change yours unless you personally find value in them. Dont be influenced by my judgements if you dont think I am right. If you do that and I actually take you somewhat serious on this zoo of a fantasy land, I will find them admirable and condemnable.

_____________________________

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The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 475

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 8:38:23 AM

adaddysgirl

Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

My point is this - she says as her master he has the *right* to do what he wants to her. That isn't what I'm taking issue with. It's the fact that he actually *does* these things for his own amusement that bothers me. And that is entirely a reflection of him, not her.

And your issue with it is a reflection of you, not him.

DG

(in reply to xoxi)

Post #: 476

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 8:38:26 AM

Bobkgin

Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

Its just beyond the pale that theres even any debate over this. That supposedly rational people are defending someone who "consents" to getting bones broken and even the threat of death.......I am stunned and sickened by it... NOT EVERYTHING CAN BE PROTECTED UNDER THE "You can't criticize my kink" umbrella..... because weather you like it or not people there IS such a thing as right and wrong.....

Can you point to a single post where you addressed Props, explained to her why she should get out of her situation, and offered her assistance/advice on how to live the rest of her life?

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to breatheasone)

Post #: 477

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 8:41:28 AM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: UR2Badored

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

That's not my point.

You are judging her for not doing what you would do.

I think she has left building and is spending time with Elvis and Chellekitty

Anyway, You seem to be judging her by her not addressing the issue as you like. Just because some people do think it is a question of legal consent, does not mean they are refering to extremes and vice versa (apparently) Again, I think it is a bit unfair how this topic transpire, but a valid topic all the same.......Extremes and consent are so different viewpoints .....

This is off a "no limits" topic....It is not necessary a bad thing when a topic takes on momentum in a different direction....Someone should start a general mental compency and consent thread........That seems to be what is being argued now and that in itself is entirely separate and valid argument/topic. Bob, would you start a thread? Somebody? Anybody?

I've given thought to a spin-off, but honestly, those threads tend to become about me (I'll cite Rabbit as an example).

And I am not entirely convinced we've drifted off-topic here. Props claims to be in a "no limits" relationship. People have backed off from attacking the extremity and are now left with the legal issues, which as many have said is a bit ridiculous given the many activities and jurisdictions of BDSM.

Competency and "no limits" are directly related in the sense that many people consider "no limits" proof of incompetency (Rover and Rabbit argue this point).

Others disagree, or else claim the point is moot because they (like anyone else) are not required to prove competency unless forced to it by a shrink or court of law.

BDSM in the larger sense is about morality. Whom we choose for partners and who we refuse as partners is a morality issue.

How we judge Competency and No Limits and what we choose is a reflection on our morality.

Some believe in Live/Let Live.

Some believe in Judgment.

And the two groups will always argue.

Bob, it actually helps to read the posts when debating.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Bobkgin)

Post #: 478

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 8:46:51 AM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

psssst angry bunny...did you read my post?

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 479

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 8:54:11 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

FR~

Let me see, as I am one of the head Drama Queens, let me go back to my original post on this thread. "IF" we are to believe daddysprop at her word......

The subject was believability. In order to make the personal decision on whether or not you believe something, it makes sense to look at the relevant information at hand. I would say "I have been declared legally mentally incompetent" would seem to me to be relevant to believability of that person's word.

Would you go to a Doctor and follow his advice if the receptionist on your way out stopped you and told you "Oh, by the way....the doc has been declared legally mentally incompetent....you might want to take that into consideration when you are deciding what you want to do under his care." A lawyer? The mechanic that fixes your breaks? A marriage counselor?

Let me set this straight....I don't dislike prop...I don't even fucking know her. I could give a flying fuck what she and her daddy want to do in their relationship. I have no desire to save her. What I do care about is that she brings her story here as an example of what should be accepted as "ok". Well in order to make the decision personally of whether or not you want to believe it really is "ok"....or even if it really is real....it might be helpful to know that the person giving such advice claims to have been found mentally incompetent.

There are a lot of people who come to these boards who have zero experience in this lifestyle. Without presenting them with all the relevant facts I would think it would be impossible for them to look at the advice given and make an informed decision as to what would be right for themselves.

Oh and daddysgirl....go piss up a rope and take your personal axe you wish to grind with you...your opinion of me doesn't mean a fucking thing on this end.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 480

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