to submit or not to submit, that is my question

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steamynotraunchy -> to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 5:57:08 AM)
ok, so let me get this straight: being a "submissive" means aspiring towards total subjugation with the ultimate goal of being invisible when "necessary"? And the joy is to be taken from the act of serving itself rather than the interaction between you and that man? This is what I've gleaned from all your responses to Gwendolyn's post regarding "submission vs. servitude." Couldn't you just hire a Mexican to do that for you?

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 6:11:18 AM)
you actually have no clue what being a submissive is if you believe that dribble you just posted. being Daddy's submissive doesn't mean i'm into total subjucation morning, noon, night on my knees only visible when he needs me. if Daddy wanted another servant, He would have hired me as His maid - He saw a woman who has the potential to be something more than where she currently was when He first met her ...He saw a woman who's opinionated, strong, self-motivated, independent, etc worthy receiving her gift of submission ...He saw a woman who's naturally submissive needing a guiding and nurturing hand to mold and shape her into what she's today ...someone who share similar interests, tastes, dislikes as He does ...someone He can converse on many levels and topics. this submissive is owned as well as loved and cherished ....the someone Daddy's proud to have wearing His collar.

desertdancer -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 6:14:18 AM)
Why hire someone when you can do the job better? If ya want something done right, do it yourself, and no one can serve my Master better then I. I would hope He would not want me to be invisible, but yes the joy does indeed come from the act of serving Him, pleasing Him and making Him happy is my only goal. Bringing Him pleasure makes me happy in return. Seeing His eyes light up when I've done something right or hearing "Good girl." brings me joy as well. One can find many small things in serving another that bring the one doing the serving pleasure. I take joy in knowing I've done what was asked of me, I take even more joy if I've managed to add grace to the act I'm asked to do. Serving then IS the interaction between me and the man, thus yes bringing me joy...

cautiousiasub -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 6:17:17 AM)
Are you just antagonistic today? My opinion of submission is entirely different from yours, but it isn't worth the time (to me) to argue. It seems your opinion is already formed so further discussion would probably look like this: [sm=banghead.gif] I don't need a migraine today. The only question I have is that if this is your opinion of submission, why do you "identify" as one?

sub4hire -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 6:23:12 AM)
As others have already stated definitions vary. Mine also does not agree with yours. However, I have to wonder, how come you aren't in front of home depot hiring your submissive, instead you are on here trying to communicate?

Willowanderer -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 6:30:00 AM)
(Ignoring racist comment.) My submissive is also my husband of twenty odd years. Believe me, at 6 ' 3, he's neither invisible or silent! My duty as his "keeper" means that his physical, emotional well being is uppermost my priority. It's my choice that I control all aspects of our relationship and household. Because if this, I have the extra task of making sure his voice is heard and respected. He's very important and I couldn't imagine treating him as an insignificant entity. On the other hand, I expect and demand his obedience. But with love and respect on my part. I'm not sure how other doms and dommes functions and it saddens me when submissive have been lead to believe that they are nothings by dominants with low self esteems who take out personal frustrations on those who place their trust in them. To me, it's more fulfilling to build someone up then the tear them down.

steamynotraunchy -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 7:17:49 AM)
Ahhh, well said "Willowanderer." However, if you had stated this in OP form you would have gotten torn to shreds by all the Fox and Friendesque zealots on here who would beg to differ with you. They would have you believe it's a dominant's right to trreat a submissive however they want and if the submissive has a problem with that then said submissive doesn't understand the nuances of the "lifestyle." They would never concede that there is an element of low self esteem on either parties part for taking the abuse or dishing it out....After all, this would apply to many of them. If one is to maintain a certain position, one must justify it in one's mind by whatever means possible. Let me add to that, you're a woman, so of course you're a more thoughtful, introspective, and sensitive dominant. Which leads me to my next point: ladies, in my opinion it is a grave mistake to give a man so much credit as to hand your life and welbeing over to him carte blanche. They'll run your finances into the ground if they're not watched. If you let them dress you you'll end up looking like a drag queen.. I mean, c'mon.

AquaticSub -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 7:22:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: steamynotraunchy ok, so let me get this straight: being a "submissive" means aspiring towards total subjugation with the ultimate goal of being invisible when "necessary"? And the joy is to be taken from the act of serving itself rather than the interaction between you and that man? This is what I've gleaned from all your responses to Gwendolyn's post regarding "submission vs. servitude." Couldn't you just hire a Mexican to do that for you? Uhh... if that's what you want. I have no goal of being invisible. Fuck that. I'm an interesting person with great things to say. I dunno about total subjugation but I get Valyraen toast whenever he wants it. And blowjobs. But more often he wants toast. And I don't get a lot of joy outta doing the dishes or washing the clothes. Bloody annoying chores - I want to hire a cleaning lady sometime in the future, if Valyraen says I can. Where do I take joy? I take joy in being with the man I love, being in the dynamic that suits me best (both it's pros and cons considered), watching him go to sleep every night, that we still make each other laugh, knowing he will give me a kiss in the morning before he leaves and that he just might make my cup of coffee for me because for some reason the nut loves to see me smile. And, of course, bringing him his beer. [:D]

Celeste43 -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 7:31:33 AM)
He doesn't want to subjugate me. He doesn't want me to be invisible. He doesn't particularly care about being served. He wants me to trust and love him as close to unconditionally as I am capable of, and to follow his lead because of that love and trust. And he knows and wants to earn and merit that love and trust.

toservez -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 7:37:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: steamynotraunchy ok, so let me get this straight: being a "submissive" means aspiring towards total subjugation with the ultimate goal of being invisible when "necessary"? And the joy is to be taken from the act of serving itself rather than the interaction between you and that man? This is what I've gleaned from all your responses to Gwendolyn's post regarding "submission vs. servitude." Couldn't you just hire a Mexican to do that for you? No! That is just some people’s fantasy vision of submission. That dreamlike one way street that a submissive is not a real human being and therefore does not have self identity or needs that the person they serve is required to pay attention to. This is the type of dribble that people make up in their heads when typing alone on their computer or mouth off to self projected false image of their life or as frustration to why they cannot hang on to anyone because they all turn out to be losers. Most submissives serve to make the person they care for happy not because serving is what it is all about. I hate this particular BS point because it is expounded on far too often from the not have a clue segment. It is a convenient cop out for people who are so into themselves, extremely selfish or have abnormal lack of desires in some basic human need area like to give or receive love and sex that they try to make people believe that is what this life is because it helps their agenda. This view is though often promoted by the people who are just truly looking for a free servant. Rest assured these people are perpetually looking for that free servant.

AquaticSub -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 7:40:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: steamynotraunchy Let me add to that, you're a woman, so of course you're a more thoughtful, introspective, and sensitive dominant. Which leads me to my next point: ladies, in my opinion it is a grave mistake to give a man so much credit as to hand your life and welbeing over to him carte blanche. They'll run your finances into the ground if they're not watched. If you let them dress you you'll end up looking like a drag queen.. I mean, c'mon. Thank God it is only your opinion. Because if I had control of the finances, we'd be broke. I can not wait to hand Valyraen control of the money and get a monthy budget because I suck at handling money. I should never be allowed to. And, strangely enough, I can prove your absolute statement about having men dress you as a drag queen wrong. Valyraen loves the way I look when I look classy. By classy I mean, long black slacks, nice belt, and a modest blouse with a touch of beading. Nothing to draw attention to the breasts. They don't need anything shiny. He hates heels because they slow me down, and prefers me in a classy black flat that is easy to move around in. My ex was pretty similar - they both love it when I look like a lady, not a tramp. Not every guy is the same. I mean, c'mon.

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 7:48:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: steamynotraunchy Let me add to that, you're a woman, so of course you're a more thoughtful, introspective, and sensitive dominant. Which leads me to my next point: ladies, in my opinion it is a grave mistake to give a man so much credit as to hand your life and welbeing over to him carte blanche. They'll run your finances into the ground if they're not watched. If you let them dress you you'll end up looking like a drag queen.. I mean, c'mon. LMAO actually with in my D/s relationship, it's the other way around ...sometimes i run Daddy's finances into the ground because He loves to spoil me with tiny gifts every month. who knew the good Doctor was such a shop-a-holic like me. i didn't hand over my life carte blanche to Daddy automatically ...it gradually happened over time. i was happy to submit all of me to Him when the time was right. oh btw - Daddy's my emergency contact and executor to the specifications of my living will. why? because i have place my trust (keyword right there - t r u s t ) in Him ...if i didn't, i wouldn't be collared as His daughtersubmissive. and how i dress - Daddy and i click perfectly on that. He loves it when i buy short skirts and heels to show off my legs ...or tastful blouses and shirts which flatter my shape - no one's looking like a drag queen from To Woo Fong, Thanks For Everything Julie Newmar or Priscilla Queen of the Desert over here.

beargonewild -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 7:52:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: steamynotraunchy ok, so let me get this straight: being a "submissive" means aspiring towards total subjugation with the ultimate goal of being invisible when "necessary"? And the joy is to be taken from the act of serving itself rather than the interaction between you and that man? This is what I've gleaned from all your responses to Gwendolyn's post regarding "submission vs. servitude." Couldn't you just hire a Mexican to do that for you? Hell No. For this guy, being submissive is being the best I can be as a person, to the best of my ability within the parameters of my submissive nature. The joy (read satisfaction) I get is knowing I am being true to myself and in the same vein, I am complimenting my Dom who is turn compliments me. Satisfaction comes from having my wants needs and desires fulfilled through satisfying my Dom's wants needs and desire. It is the compatibility between my man and myself which brings the satisfaction of being in that relationship. This satisfaction is found through having mutual interests inside and outside the bedroom, it is knowing we want to be in the relationship together and our life goals are on the same track. Hell would freeze over before I would subjugate myself to any man or woman! Being submissive does not necessary mean being without some sort of autonomy, nor does it mean complete supression of a subs needs over another's needs. May I suggest you reread Gwendlyn's post and every other post made regarding submission and domination with a more open attitude and hopefully you will gain a better understanding of the mindset of us submissives.

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 7:59:48 AM)
steamynotraunchy Ok, lets rethink this. You begin your profile with an ORDER to any Dominant who might be masochistic enough to approach you to study up and learn your rules before contacting you. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is infantile and clueless. You state quite clearly that you know what you want and expect someone to provide it for you or they aren't worth your time and the rest of "us women" which you claim to be the majority don't know what we want. You seem to think you are the queen sheba of self-awareness. You persistently want to argue your religion of submission vs subjugation and have repeatedly insulted both genders though you have a habit of male bashing that makes me wonder why you don't just come clean. Probably because CM doesn't offer you the option of picking ManBashing, arrogant, closed minded bitch. I'm not submissive. I have absolutely no desire to be as slave. To neither submit nor subjugate myself but that doesn't mean I don't admire and respect those men and women who DO find the strength to be gracious AND giving. Who can and do devote their lives to the person who inspires this submissiveness within them. As for those who (to borrow your tired and boring semantic blather) want to subjugate themselves - GOOD FOR THEM. Just as an aside, it is possible to be self-confident and know what it is you want and not be compelled to dismiss the choices of others as clueless. If a submissive gives that right to the dominant its HIS/HER business how they live their lives. Who do you think you are telling them they are wrong? If its not your thing, the only ones who really give a damn would be you, yourself and the cob of corn shoved up your ass. And MAYBE that poor soul you can brow beat into serving your needs the way you want, when you want. Give it a rest already. Edited to add: No offense to you lovely open minded bitches with whom I'm good friends. You know I love you.

steamynotraunchy -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 8:29:21 AM)
lol

steamynotraunchy -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 8:31:57 AM)
but where is our good friend the ":LuckyAlbatross"? I thought for sure he would have weighed in on this with his infinite wisdom by now. Goodness. Bathroom break perhaps? Or maybe he's making the popcorn.

earthycouple -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 8:34:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: steamynotraunchy but where is our good friend the ":LuckyAlbatross"? I thought for sure he would have weighed in on this with his infinite wisdom by now. Goodness. Bathroom break perhaps? Or maybe he's making the popcorn. He? Must be nice to be so snarky when you don't even know if your snark is directed toward a man or a woman. LA's insight is usually spot on as far as I'm concerned...guess that makes me an infinate wisdom groupie.....I've been called worse.

NLitendLady -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 8:45:06 AM)
This poster sounds like someone who was badly hurt by poor judgement and misplaced trust. The answer is learn from others and whatever sources you can find and educate yourself. Learn from past mistakes and move on. Submission is not subjugation for those in the lifestyle unless it's by mutual choice. Consensual is still considered a requirement. As you can see from my profile, I have a differing view of Ds and submission. In my real life experience of approximately 15 years as a submissive, I've seen many relationships. I've found the majority of real timers see submission as a great gift and Dominance as a great responsibility. It's a symbiotic and synergistic relationship of reciprocity. A Dominant gives as much as they receive, just not in the same manner. The submissive wants to serve because he has helped her grow and become so happy that she wants to return the happiness. Limits and the relationship are set up before the collar. Each relationship should be allowed to be as individual as those who are in it, not dictated or judged by anyone in or outside of it, lifestyle or not. The internet has flooded the world with information but has also mainstreamed things such as Ds lifestyle to the point many consider it a game. Many take it to the point of abuse. Sitting in judgement of how others choose to lead their lifes is purely a sign of prejudice. Attacking them is a sign of insecurity and ignorance. Taking your anger towards yourself out on others is juvenile. Get therapy, grow up, get over it and yourself and decide what you want/need for yourself and act on it. It all boils down to this. There are always opportunists in or out of the lifestyle who will take advantage of anyone who allows it, in any manner they will permit.

chiaThePet -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 8:47:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: earthycouple quote: ORIGINAL: steamynotraunchy but where is our good friend the ":LuckyAlbatross"? I thought for sure he would have weighed in on this with his infinite wisdom by now. Goodness. Bathroom break perhaps? Or maybe he's making the popcorn. He? Must be nice to be so snarky when you don't even know if your snark is directed toward a man or a woman. LA's insight is usually spot on as far as I'm concerned...guess that makes me an infinate wisdom groupie.....I've been called worse. OMG OMG Lucky's a dude! Good job bro! Hey i'm bi, ya know, just in case! chia* (the pet)

Stephann -> RE: to submit or not to submit, that is my question (9/19/2007 8:53:14 AM)
steamy, It's cool to have differing opinions. It's shitty when you're a bitch about it. Militant stances aren't going to result in particularly productive discussion, and would paint you a hypocrite considering your comments about subordinates. That being said, I do think you're not 'getting' how some people enjoy their D/s. You're asserting that anyone who doesn't follow the exact model of D/s that you desire, is abusive. Someone could just as easily say that any relationship you seek to be submissive in, would mark you as seeking abuse as well; obviously because they haven't taken the time to understand you and the things you enjoy. If I slap my slave for refusing to obey a simple instruction (say, run out to the car and grab my bag) that may very well scream ABUSE to you. Another woman might have the exact same opposite response; it says "He is strong enough to keep me and my bullshit in place." The only judgment on this account that matters, is the submissive in questions. She's the one who has to decide how to live with herself. Regards, Stephan

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