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InObsequium -> RE: Why is Punishment not seen as Abusive? (9/30/2007 8:54:59 PM)
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Thank you for the words of welcome. Obviously I have been out here in the world-wide-web before, and have experienced the delights of message boards elsewhere, but I always feel a little like the new kid in school...
Also thank you for answering my question. I figured it would be that, but as far as I remember you'd not stated it before in this thread. If I overlooked, I apologise for making you repeat yourself.
Of course my rendering of your questions was a bit exaggerated. After all, I was trying to make sure I was reading you right. When doing that, magnifying often helps, I find. Regrettably there is some loss of subtlety in such cases, especially as Hawkins always says; "God is in the details." (Quite a quote, coming from an atheist, dontcha think?)
As for my remaining answers, here they are. Hope they are useful to you or anyone else, or at least entertaining.
2. As you point out yourself, there is another way. Just because your way doesn’t seem to follow the consensus, doesn’t mean it is any less valid, or valuable. It obviously is right for you, and where I come from, that’s what counts. When you step out of the box labeled ‘western heterosexual vanilla’, or any like box for that matter, you have to write your own rules. But, remembering a quote from a different thread posted in this one, you have known all that for quite a while now. Talking about preaching to the converted *private chuckle* I cannot, nor do I whish to, claim to know you well, but you don’t strike me as a person needing to feel backed up by consensus, even if it is the consensus of a minority all of us perverts can get at best. I do wonder therefore, what your motive is for starting this very successful thread. Call me curious. (You won’t be far wrong.) As to percussive maintenance and its role in my life… punishment it isn’t. Not even on the rare occasion it was called that. Retribution it cannot be called either. Retribution is just a fancy word for revenge, in my book as well as in the dictionaries I use, and Hawkins doesn’t do that. Whether it is valid to use retribution or not, it is just not something my d/m is into, and therefore it isn't applicable to me. What it is used for, and only on rare occasions, is atonement. I rarely, but sometimes do ask Hawkins to use physical ‘punishment’ on me, so that not only he, but I too, can forgive myself for whatever it is I have done. He only complies if he feels I have felt bad enough for long enough and recognizes that the reason I cannot move on without it, is that sadly, at age 35 this perfectionist (and no, I don't use the tag as a badge of honour) has some learning to do regarding concepts like ‘reasonable’, ‘enough’, or ‘adequate’. *wry smile* As you can imagine, learning to live with oneself takes more time than any reasonable d/m would want to hold their breath for. He really does me a kindness in cases like that, and himself too. Enlightened self-interest. I don’t break rules on purpose without good reason. I really don't. Our dynamic just isn't the one of BRAT versus disciplinarian. Nothing wrong with that for those it suits, I wish them all happy naughtiness, I'm just saying it's just not for us. If I break a rule knowingly and wittingly I do so trusting Hawkins will agree with my decision to do so (he's not into micromanagement of me normally), and I don’t make many errors of judgement (about two since 1995). If I break a rule by mistake we talk about it, and no, there is no greater wrong in this world than Hawkins being irritated/angry/dissappointed with me. Well, there is of course, but not in the world of Kate.
3. For some, yes. If their partners consent to this, who am I to pass judgement? If their partners do not consent, then we are talking about abuse indeed. For others, it seems to work to have the dividing lines between punishment and play so muddled that they overlap. For some they seem to overlap so much the people in the relationship are hard pushed to pick them apart. For others again, physical punishment, or any form of punishment, fits in with life as they wish to live it. If they wish it so, it cannot within my personal framework of reference be called abuse, whatever my personal views on the matter might be. For Hawkins and I it doesn’t work like that though. Not at all.
Also, you seem to assume that all d/ms subscribe to the idea that d/ms are supposed to facilitate the growth and development of their sub/slave’s self esteem and / or other issues. Although in itself there is nothing wrong with that as far as I am concerned, my d/m is not my parent/teacher. I am an adult human being and am supposed to function as may reasonably be expected from one. To me, ‘punishment’ has something of the parent-child dynamic to it. As that is not what we are about, it doesn’t suit us.
4. Disagree. You are right; very often abusive spouses indeed try to put the blame on their battered partner’s behaviour. Very often too, those exact same abusers feel dreadfully guilty about their own behaviour, which is why they so desperately need to justify their unjustifiable actions.
Your comparison between abusive spouses and d/ms using physical punishment within the dynamic of their bdsm relationship ends there, provided the sub/slave freely and ably consents to physical punishment being part of said dynamic. Plus respect. Plus love. Plus understanding, the whole spankin’ lot. The thing is, with most bdsm relationships, the punishment thang belongs to all those involved, not just the d/ms. If you’d ask the majority of them separately, individually and anonymously, I suspect both sides would not wish it gone, if it is there now. Ask any number of abused spouses what they would change about the world they live in if you could give them a magic wand….
In obsequium,
Kate
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