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RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 7:08:03 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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I cannot imagine a weak or stupid woman holding my interest. I want to be proud of the woman that chooses to kneel before me.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Treasure3)

Post #: 21

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 7:09:56 PM

amelliagrace

Posts: 1792
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tigrita

Something Stephan said to me: "You can be as strong as you want with me. And as weak as you want."

He knows, respects, and appreciates my strength, and knows that being strong is the easy part for me. The later is much harder for me, a strength in its self, one I'm working on, and makes our bond stronger than any other I've experienced.

A very good point, well made.

-grace

(in reply to Tigrita)

Post #: 22

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 7:11:08 PM

DocRudy

Posts: 153
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline

Time and time again, Stephann, I read your posts on these boards and just find them SO spot on. This time is no different. Couldn't have said it better myself.

A slave without the vigorous spark of life is boring at best.

-DR

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 23

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 7:16:51 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Treasure3

Stephann,

This post was sparked by a conversation I had with another sub. Personally, I wouldn't consent to being someone's slave unless I was POSITIVE they were stronger than me, and I believe that it is my job to choose a Master wisely as I do view the position of slave extremely seriously. I just don't believe the position requires me to check my brain at the door. I haven't found that yet, so this isn't a case of me not willing to submit, but rather at the moment a case of not having the right person to call Master in my life yet. The sub I was speaking with tonight just kind of threw me for a loop when she said that most in the lifestyle wanted basically what on the forums people seem to call a doormat and that because I wasn't willing to be that that I had no hope of ever being a slave.

First off I would honestly question anyone that told you that you are not good enough, or there is only one true way of thinking or doing, including this sub. The most important thing in this whole confusing lifestyle is the relationship. I'm not sure the real issue is "strong" as much as intelligence based on your post. You are obviously intelligent and therefore, it is most likely a partner of equal or greater intelligence is the best match for you. You will find most intelligent Dom/mes are not looking for a "doormat", although everyone is different and for some this is their preference and it's equally valid. Find someone that fits for you and go from there. Don't worry about knowitalls saying you aren't "the right way", that's just bullshit, but unfortunately you will find alot of it here.
Good luck in your search.
l

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 10/1/2007 7:17:50 PM >

(in reply to Treasure3)

Post #: 24

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 7:39:46 PM

twistedwillow

Posts: 546
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

So funny that this thread has come up today.
I was only thinking about this very thing last night, and came to the conclusion that It would never have worked between my ex Dom\bf and myself.
I was far to strong for him, and while i played at submitting, it was only when it suited me to submit... and was in reality just a game.
And while I feel I have come ahead in leaps and bounds he is, i think, still struggling with everything.
It IS in me to submit to someone, but he will have to be very strong, secure and sure of himself.
Brave enough to capture me and hold on.

twisted

_____________________________

Jesus died to forgive our sins. Dare we make his martyrdom meaningless by not committing them? —Jules Feiffer
Don't be fooled by the pretty words and sweet face.. sarcasm is the norm not the exception.

(in reply to Treasure3)

Post #: 25

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 7:48:28 PM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline

don t ya just love mental manipulation Trying to label someone based on how they react to a certain situtation. totally stupid and in the dumbass inc area of idealism. Everyone is different. I do not see anyone with a phd in mental health. a lot of assumtions. But It is Y OUR LIFE and what you do with YOUR LIFE is on you no one else. live and learn or live and burn.

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 26

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 7:53:35 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Well there's a lot of layers here between what people say, what they desire, who they actually are, and what they can actually handle.

There's a lot of weak subs out there- and weak doms. A lot of stupid ones also. And yet they form relationships just like everyone else. As well, you can't walk ten feet without walking into a deeply held stereotype about subs needing to be followers, passive, waiting. Most subs WANT someone stronger than them, want to feel weaker, want to be overpowered.

A lot of doms will SAY the sweet stuff about wanting someone strong and smart- but then will do everything they can to suppress and shame it because they consider it a threat to their dominance.

The basic deal is that anyone who tries to make such universal statements is just trying to sound cool and/or trying to get you to buy into their story so they can get into something with you. And the people who are really smart and strong realize it for the crap that it is.

The other ones? They just reinforce the whole messy cycle.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Post #: 27

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 8:00:43 PM

DocRudy

Posts: 153
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Well there's a lot of layers here between what people say, what they desire, who they actually are, and what they can actually handle.

There's a lot of weak subs out there- and weak doms. A lot of stupid ones also. And yet they form relationships just like everyone else. As well, you can't walk ten feet without walking into a deeply held stereotype about subs needing to be followers, passive, waiting. Most subs WANT someone stronger than them, want to feel weaker, want to be overpowered.

A lot of doms will SAY the sweet stuff about wanting someone strong and smart- but then will do everything they can to suppress and shame it because they consider it a threat to their dominance.

The basic deal is that anyone who tries to make such universal statements is just trying to sound cool and/or trying to get you to buy into their story so they can get into something with you. And the people who are really smart and strong realize it for the crap that it is.

The other ones? They just reinforce the whole messy cycle.

This sounds a little like the addiction vs. denial conundrum:

If you admit to an addiction, you're obviously addicted since you admitted to it.
If you deny an addiciton, you're obviously addicted since denial is the first sign of addiction.

Correct me if I misinterpreted.

-DR

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 28

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 8:08:18 PM

MidMichCowboy

Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

A favorite quote of mine, that is now lost somewhere on page 2 of my CM journal. I think I will add it to my profile:

A man's sexual choice is the result and the sum of his fundamental convictions. Tell me what a man finds sexually attractive, and I will tell you his entire philosophy of life. Show me the woman he sleeps with, and I will tell you his valuation of himself. ... He will always be attracted to the woman who reflects his deepest vision of himself, the woman whose surrender permits him to experience - or to fake - a sense of self-esteem. The man who is proudly certain of his own value, will want the highest type of woman he can find, the woman he admires, the strongest, the hardest to conquer - because only the possession of a heroine will give him the sense of an achievement, not the possession of a brainless slut.
-Ayn Rand

Exactly ... thank you for the right words.
Michael

_____________________________

I want to capture your mind, your spirit, your soul, your body, your devotion and your love. Then, will I give you my heart.

(in reply to xoxi)

Post #: 29

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 8:12:26 PM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
Status: offline

Don't thank me, thank Ms. Rand. I always thought if she had written erotica rather than philosophy she would have been unequivocally the best in her field.

(in reply to MidMichCowboy)

Post #: 30

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 8:35:17 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
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I don't know why people say these things, or think them. If you substitute the word "slave" for the word "partner", when someone presumes to say such ridiculous things - the silliness of such a presumption becomes obvious:

"You're too smart or strong to be a partner". Sounds a littlle silly when phrased that way, doesn't it? It does to me.

Hmmm. Maybe it's just me, but whether I am a sub, a slave, or a Domme (I can be all three, since I am a Switch) - I don't want a stupid or weak partner for myself - and I am presuming anyone with whom I'd want to spend any substantial amount of time in a partner relationship (even if it wasn't "romantic", but a more emotionally distant form of some BDSM activity-related liason) - wouldn't desire me to be stupid or weak, as their partner, either.

If they did, then they'd be with the wrong partner for me, that's for sure. Different strokes, and all of that - maybe some prefer stupid and weak (however they might not come right out and say it) - but for me, I never thought that either of those qualities made for great "partner material" - no matter what "role" anyone was taking on. And I still don't.

I am not sure where anyone gets the idea that to be a "slave" is to be weak, or stupid or otherwise not up to "par" (whatever that means for any given person, anyway). I know being a "slave" can manifest itself in all sorts of emotional and relationship-oriented ways.

People create their own BDSM relationships - just like they do in the "Vanilla" world, IMO. You can make it work however you want it to work - or not. I suppose there aren't really any "rules" other than anything I'd ever view as anything other than broad "guidelines" gleaned from other people's experiences.

And there are so many people, and they all have such individual experiences - how can anyone actually boil it down and say: A "slave" is X, but never, ever Y, etc.

There is always, always, IMO an exception somewhere, to whatever "rule" anyone would want to impose on this kind of relationship.
Except for maybe the one that says: "What a Master/Mistress says goes"...all the rest is bendable.

And if a slave has a Master or a Mistress whose "rules" they find altogether objectionable all or most of the time, then - IMO, that person is definitely in the wrong relationship - for them.

**There is (presumably) - some sort of process of negotiation that ensues, before a committment is made (although I have my doubts this is always the case before some embark upon BDSM relationships). IMO - whatever two people want to negotiate as "acceptable" from a partner is between them, not the entire BDSM world.

**People are individuals, with individual desires and needs, whether slave or Master. Anyone who actually doesn't realize this, isn't someone I'd probably want as a partner.

Slave, or Dominant - IMO, people do have a right to seek happiness via their personal relationships and partnerships.

I guess for me, the key would be to find someone who I "clicked with" on a lot of levels, and for whom I could fulfill dreams and desires of the kind they seek - as well as they would wish to sincerely attempt to do that for me.

If our "needs" don't mesh well- and our personalities don't "click" well together - ir if they do - then it doesn't really matter what the other person's "title" is - does it? To me - it should not.

Other people may agree or disagree, but that is how I view things for myself, as far as my view of potential (or actual) BDSM relationships are concerned .

-Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 10/1/2007 9:29:05 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Post #: 31

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 8:47:08 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

Well put Susan.
l

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 32

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 9:01:31 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
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Thanks. It just irks me when someone tries to feed someone else (especially a "Newbie") garbage like this presumption. When someone says things like this to someone - it is usually evidence to me they haven't managed to separate the person from the "role" - and are there-fore seeking some card-board cut-out, and not a real person - who will have personality quirks, likes and dislikes, moments they are lovely, and others when they are maybe not.

If someone really wants to partake of BDSM activity with someone playing only a "role" - and that is their requirement of a partner - all the time - IMO, maybe they should only seek a Pro________Domme, Dom, Sub, slave. They are out there...

I hope this comment isn't misunderstood.I think people probably know what I am driving at here. I'd express it better, but am tired.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 10/1/2007 9:07:16 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 33

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 9:07:04 PM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline

If you can be happy alone-you can be happy with someone else.

If you cannot no one else will MAKE you happy.

That's strength.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Post #: 34

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 9:10:56 PM

MistressPurpleFL

Posts: 112
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline

As many know there is a big difference between being a slave and a sub; choices are limited; options few but I love a challenge. Submission is a gift but being dominant is innately in me and I prefer to roar and be challenged by intellectual submissive minds. If I wanted someone who was mindless he or she would be easy to find; it is the one who craves to serve me; who is sincerely strong enough to make the decision to be owned by me. In the end it is about me; selfish as that may sound but I want someone who can think for themselves; someone who is creative in finding ways to submit. "Life is too short to stay in the missionary positon" By Mistress PurpleFL

< Message edited by MistressPurpleFL -- 10/1/2007 9:12:19 PM >

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Post #: 35

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 9:11:24 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

I wish I had a strong opinion or some kind of insight into this question, but my Mistress had me get a labotomy last week.

(in reply to Treasure3)

Post #: 36

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 9:23:50 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

Yeah, I know watcha mean, I think - just what is the caricature of a "strong" or "weak" slave or submissive? It is only a caricature - and an individualized pre-conception at that, IMO - because anyone's personal idea of what constitutes "weak" or "strong" is gonna be just that - individually determined.

I can understand people seeking broad "guidelines", and also people being sociologicially conditioned to consider some qualities as "weak" and others as "strong" - people are all subject to all of that, sure - but still - someone who takes that all inside their head - and still doesn't leave room to recognize that how this conditioning is manifested is a very, very individual deal - is IMO - not playing with a full deck of cards.

I get concerned - when people start to turn what they have somehow perceived as the "majority's experience" into a chapter in the "submissive's or slaves Bible".

If whatever "one true way" idea they are preaching at the moment was actually that pre-dominant as a workable concept, wouldn't there be strong agreement about what that is? - and happy subs and slave and Masters, following the idea always - and this resulting in no relationship problems everywhere, by this time?

I notice there is still a lot of individual decison-making, and negotiation between individual people going on, in relationships, all around us, in the BDSM world. At least I've seen it a few times (or more) - plus, I seem to see lots of threads on topics like "Negotiation" - at least at some point in a partnership - if even only at the beginning for some (no broad "rules" apply here either, as far as I can tell).

That is answer enough to me, as far as the veracity of this kind of presumption of "weakness", as any kind of broad "rule" for "slaves".

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 10/1/2007 9:46:45 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 37

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 9:33:05 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DocRudy
This sounds a little like the addiction vs. denial conundrum:

If you admit to an addiction, you're obviously addicted since you admitted to it.
If you deny an addiciton, you're obviously addicted since denial is the first sign of addiction.

Correct me if I misinterpreted.

-DR

Hence the difficulty of having a lot of layers going on at once.

The REALLY smart people realize that we're all smart and all dumb and all weak and all strong in different ways- and that relationship orientation has NOTHING to do with it. The more you have to talk about being strong and smart and how you need it in another- the less you actually just deal with it on a regular basis.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to DocRudy)

Post #: 38

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 9:40:02 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
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LA is so right (Really. I agree totally).

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 39

RE: too strong to be a slave? - 10/1/2007 10:16:04 PM

hardcoredom

Posts: 3
Joined: 9/26/2007
Status: offline

It strikes me as odd that anyone would want a relationship with someone who is spineless and has no opinions. I have had both a sub and a slave. The girl who was to become my slave needed more mental guidance than a normal person, but only because before I had control she had been put on a pedastal and given everything (nothing wrong with this either). Her problem was that she had never been held from anything before and it felt good to her to be more restricted. By the way, she carried masters degrees in both english and metallurgy.

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Post #: 40

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