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ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Which "neurotransmitters" do they study to determine the difference so as to properly treat the condition?

The fact is they try to slot the illness into a known catagory based on self-reporting of the patien. Only when the symptoms do not match up well with any known catagory do they start "studying" anything.

That's why it took so long to get the lady I've mentioned properly diagnosed. The shrinks could see the depressed side, but not the manic side. So they diagnosed it as depression and treated it as such, which of course didn't work.

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Delusions are belief in something that isn't real - hearing voices and seeing things that are not there.

Like God?

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There are medications that can help people with delusions. 

And why isn't everyone who believes in God diagnosed "delusional" and treated?

Lot's of medical symptoms overlap and get misdiagnosed as well - Look at fibromyalgia as just one example. No way to test for it, you have to rely on the patients reporting of symptoms. i am not saying psychiatry is an exact science with no mistakes or misdiagnoses, i am just saying neither is medicine either. 

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As to the question bolded above - if you actually think you hear gods voice or see god than you are delusional.

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In fact many delusional people report they can do just those things, even to the extent they believe they are god.  Having a belief in something like god is a far cry from being delusional - it's called faith Bob and it's been around a very long time, i would venture to say the majority of people have it than not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
Bobgkin: The depression was the result of being powerless to stop the trends that are wrecking our world.
If i were you i would have gotten a new therapist because he/she doesn't sound very competent.  Many people see the same trends you do and don't live their lives depressed because of it.  Seems to me the obsession with the trends is the problem leading to the depression. 

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Psychiatry is a quasi-science for me because once it gets outside of organic causes it enters the world of philosophy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Which "neurotransmitters" do they study to determine the difference so as to properly treat the condition?

The fact is they try to slot the illness into a known catagory based on self-reporting of the patien. Only when the symptoms do not match up well with any known catagory do they start "studying" anything.

That's why it took so long to get the lady I've mentioned properly diagnosed. The shrinks could see the depressed side, but not the manic side. So they diagnosed it as depression and treated it as such, which of course didn't work.

quote:



Delusions are belief in something that isn't real - hearing voices and seeing things that are not there.

Like God?

quote:



There are medications that can help people with delusions. 

And why isn't everyone who believes in God diagnosed "delusional" and treated?

Lot's of medical symptoms overlap and get misdiagnosed as well - Look at fibromyalgia as just one example. No way to test for it, you have to rely on the patients reporting of symptoms. i am not saying psychiatry is an exact science with no mistakes or misdiagnoses, i am just saying neither is medicine either. 

We agree on this, tho' as I said, medicine I find more reliable because it is dealing with tangibles.

Psychiatry is a quasi-science for me because once it gets outside of organic causes it enters the world of philosophy.

What is a "normal" human? What are his/her motives? How does a "normal" human respod to XYZ stimuli?

Psychiatry tackles this from a statistical point of view.

But if three-quarters of society is insane, what does "average" look like?

If we assume for the sake of argument that belief in a God is "delusional", then almost everyone in America is crazy.

We can get there just as easily by arguing that polygamy is the "normal" human condition. How many Americans are living "normally" in polygamous relationships?

The propositions are 'absurd', because "normal" is whatever the majority say it is.

So when the majority said the world was flat, the world really was flat.

And when the majority changed their minds and decided the world was round, the world changed and became round.

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As to the question bolded above - if you actually think you hear gods voice or see god than you are delusional.

So the bible is a work of delusional fiction? Because there are lots of claims made to seeing and hearing God.

Indeed, the Bible itself is said to have been inspired by this being.

People who say their prayers are answered are delusional?

People who claim they've had visions of Mary, heard prophecy, felt the warm embrace of Jesus ... all delusional?

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In fact many delusional people report they can do just those things, even to the extent they believe they are god.  Having a belief in something like god is a far cry from being delusional - it's called faith Bob and it's been around a very long time, i would venture to say the majority of people have it than not.

I see.

So believing people in the bible saw and spoke to God is "faith"
But believing one's self has seen and spoken with God is a "delusion".

And which "neurotransmitters" are studied to determine this?

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Psychiatry is a quasi-science for me because once it gets outside of organic causes it enters the world of philosophy.

Psychiatry is based in the medical study of brain chemistry, it is not quasi science nor is it part of the world of philosophy. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i am not getting into a religious debate with you here. Buy the recent DSM and you will see in many of the categories they account for cultural beliefs and disqualify them as delusions if they stem from being part of that culture and believing.

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Can you, Bobkgin, ever be wrong?

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ORIGINAL: chellekitty

Bob...i have a point blank question for you


Can you, Bobkgin, ever be wrong?

because if you can't, it will save us all a lot of trouble debating anything with you...because presumably the purpose of a debate is to present two opposing points of view where one is more right than the other, which means that the other is more wrong than the other...if you are always right and never wrong....there is no point in debating with you....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Whenever you have to ascertain what is "real" and what is not, you've entered the world of philosophy.

Psychiatry can no more seperate itself from its subjective assumptions than philosophy. Those assumptions are formed within the matrix of the majority beliefs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

I suppose I should be honoured by the implicit message that the only reason for debating me is to convince me I am wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

Bob...i have a point blank question for you

Can you, Bobkgin, ever be wrong?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

So all they are doing is telling shrinks not to use a euro-centric bias when trying to diagnose the "delusions" of people from other cultures.

Instead, the shrinks are to use the bias of the other culture (assuming the shrink has an inkling of what that is, given his/her dominant euro-centric bias).

It is still the same argument:

The world was flat when the majority said it was flat, anyone who disagreed was crazy.
The world became round when the majority said it was round, and anyone who says it is flat is crazy.

It presumes that only "average" people are "normal", and that everyone else is crazy.