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ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice
Do our easy use of the word slave, our iconization of slave collars, and our interest (from whatever angle) in dominance and submission blind us to the true horrors of slavery? Are we forgetting that consensual slavery is the exception rather than the rule? Does anyone else feel discomfort at sharing language and symbols with one of the great evils of human history?

This is precisely why I refuse to label myself as a slave. I saw the faces of the 12 years old girls that had been smuggled over the border and forced into prostitution on a news story. Matter of fact, they had been found just a couple of miles from where I used to live.

By calling myself a slave, I feel I'm belittling what they've been through.

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I think most people on earth would agree that nonconsensual slavery such as that  throughout history is wrong, bad, or any other negative term. 

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Comparing the two uses of "slave" is like comparing apples and oranges.

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ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

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Looking at a few slavery-related threads, I came across some interesting observations: Slavery might not seem so bad if we did it Roman style rather than American style. Nature approves of slavery. It's a shame we can't have legal ownership of another person here in the U.S. We might be able to update the institution of slavery to make it work for modern times.

So what you are saying is that you WANT oppression, and you want people to be treated like objects, humuliated and dehuminized?!  The Romans use to pit slaves against eachother and they would fight to the death, they would be taken from their families; they could also murder your children if you did not obey.  Yep, lets go back to THAT.

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ORIGINAL: kirii


Hello dcnovice
I think what you failed to recognize from the thread on the Gorean boards was that most of those who stated with clarity that they do believe in non-consensual slavery do so from the perspective that they were born this way; not a given a choice on who or what they are; therefore they were not given a choice about whether or not to be a slave; only to embrace or deny something that was ‘THEM’.

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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ORIGINAL: kirii


Hello dcnovice
I think what you failed to recognize from the thread on the Gorean boards was that most of those who stated with clarity that they do believe in non-consensual slavery do so from the perspective that they were born this way; not a given a choice on who or what they are; therefore they were not given a choice about whether or not to be a slave; only to embrace or deny something that was ‘THEM’.

Hello, Kirrii. In my first post on the Gorean thread, I specifically asked whether "nonconsenusal slavery" included real-life slavery as practiced on Earth. The OP replied that slavery was slavery, the ownership of another person. He thoughtfully added that this was a simple concept. That led to my confusion as to whether the poll respondents were saying they believed in nonconsensual slavery for themselves (which seems to be what you're saying they believed) or as a social arrangement.

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 On a side note, if slavery is slavery, then I beleive the people expressing that viewpoint and the viewpoint of non consentual slavery in a society being a good idea should be the first ones to be made slaves when the reform happens. 

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I would be more worried about the romanticizing and eroticizing of...

***murder, rape, kidnapping, choking, whipping, beating, punching, kicking, biting, paddling, torturing, slapping, cutting, dungeons, torture devices, humiliation, sadism, masochism, painful bondage, crying, dirty words, drinking of bodily fluids, degradation, sodomization, ponys, dogs, cats, turtles, young ages, old ages, and anal fisting....

before I started to worry about the romanticization and eroticization of slavery.

***BDSM isnt exactly fluffly bunny rabbits and snuggly kittens with gentle kisses and missionary style sex on down pillows with the lights off and Al Green playing in the background.

Spin the wheel and take your pick and sure enough...some group out there will be offended by the eroticizing of one of the above.

*** an array of column A with a little column B on the side!    ..i am serious on this!

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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Comparing the two uses of "slave" is like comparing apples and oranges.

Good point, which is why we use different words for apples and oranges. That makes me wonder if consensual, erotic submission ("slavery") warrants a different term from nonconsensual, brutal slavery. Does using the same term--"slave"--for both situations blur or dilute the word's meaning?

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I would be more worried about the romanticizing and eroticizing of...

murder, rape, kidnapping, choking, whipping, beating, punching, kicking, biting, paddling, torturing, slapping, cutting, dungeons, torture devices, humiliation, sadism, masochism, painful bondage, crying, dirty words, drinking of bodily fluids, degradation, sodomization, ponys, dogs, cats, turtles, young ages, old ages, and anal fisting....

before I started to worry about the romanticization and eroticization of slavery.

BDSM isnt exactly fluffly bunny rabbits and snuggly kittens with gentle kisses and missionary style sex on down pillows with the lights off and Al Green playing in the background.

Spin the wheel and take your pick and sure enough...some group out there will be offended by the eroticizing of one of the above.

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ORIGINAL: nyrisa

Then the plight of women in male dominated societies, such as the Middle East, left me wondering what these women, who had no choices and have no recourse, would tell us about this lifestyle "for real".

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I don’t believe that it is only BDSM folk who romanticize concepts or parts of history that were ugly at the time.  On film and in books, the ‘wild’ west of the US conveniently overlook the fact that it was a deliberate act of genocide to eradicate the Native American people; (who were also enslaved).  Ever been to a Civil War re-enactment?  Unlike the reality, the ‘dead’ and ‘wounded’ get up and walk away from the battle field, but it is great entertainment for the crowds who come to watch.

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Good thread topic, DC

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ORIGINAL: catize

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 On a side note, if slavery is slavery, then I beleive the people expressing that viewpoint and the viewpoint of non consentual slavery in a society being a good idea should be the first ones to be made slaves when the reform happens. 

 
And brand their chests with the words:
 “I voted for non-consensual slavery.” 

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

It's possible, I realize, they had in mind some Gorean vision rather than real-life slavery as it's been practiced on Earth.

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Nature approves of slavery.

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We might be able to update the institution of slavery to make it work for modern times.

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All this has left me wondering if we're at risk of romanticizing slavery.

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Does anyone else feel discomfort at sharing language and symbols with one of the great evils of human history?

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ORIGINAL: MySweetSubmssive

And some of the people on the Gorean board think that all women are wired to be slaves.

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While I will not shit in the Gorean sandbox when I wasn't invited there, I will say that I find the idea laughable and a weird way to rationalize one's own kink.