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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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I think most people on earth would agree that nonconsensual slavery such as that  throughout history is wrong, bad, or any other negative term. 

I would hope so. That's why I was shocked to see so many votes on the Gorean thread for nonconsensual slavery. That made me wonder if folks really grasped just how horrific nonconsensual slavery is.

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I would hope so. That's why I was shocked to see so many votes on the Gorean thread for nonconsensual slavery. That made me wonder if folks really grasped just how horrific nonconsensual slavery is.

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I personally wont consider the Gorean viewpoints expressed in that thread to fall in the scope of having anything to do with BDSM and erotic slavery.

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People draw a line in the sand between Gorean philosophy and BDSM for some good reasons. This is one of them.

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On a side note, if slavery is slavery, then I beleive the people expressing that viewpoint and the viewpoint of non consentual slavery in a society being a good idea should be the first ones to be made slaves when the reform happens.

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ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

DC novice-
I won't clutter the thread by duplicating my comments found on the Gorean thread on non-consensual slavery-
but what came out of it, after a few exchanges, was the blurring of terms- what most there seemed to be talking about was the internal psychological slavery, where a person is so deeply bound to another they felt helpless to leave.

OK, fine- but my point was that using such bloodcurdling loaded terms like "non-consensual slavery" simply associates what we and they do, with really horrific crimes that occur in much of the world today, such as child sex trafficking, enslavement in Darfur, etc.

My last point on the thread asked that we separate out our terms for slavery (in the BDSM and Gorean context) from the common definition, so people can be specific in what they mean.

Or at least see who really supports the exploitation of child prostitutes, from those who simply enjoy being under a handsome Man's control.

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ORIGINAL: came4U

the term SLAVE: Very FEW women have the ultimate experience of being a true slave.  It is, I am pretty sure, a real and dangerous event. Yet, mostly the ones who claim to be qualified as the ultimate slave material would be the first to complain if kidnapped by a stranger to be used and abused (even if he is good-looking).  I dislike the mis-use of the terminology of 'slave' in this concept. So, you ARE a slave but to someone you 'chose' ? ohh I get it now.  NOT. So what you are saying is that you would ONLY be a slave to someone you trusted? If it really came down to it...and some nutbar took you from a convenience store...you would file a lawsuit if the cops didn't help you soon enough? What if you had no rights, no passport? No job.  Even as a temporary slave, between men ..ya gotta eat. If you are smart enought to be reading this on a computer...you are not a slave.  A slave wouldn't be near a computer exept to dust it like it were an old betamax player because obviously your Master doesn't get out much either. How dare we toss the word 'slave' around like it is a good thing. It is not lighthearted word to be used as play. Get a grip.  Slaves aren't online 5-7 hrs/day.  Do something productive. A true slave would use a computer to do her/his Master's work..not as an outlet for your self-esteem. A slaves only self-worth is what she is told to have-to be given or taken at any time. NOT 'brb honey, I am finishing this email'.

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ORIGINAL: RRafe

Reason I gave up on consensual slavery was this-I had to be the "master" all the time-or they tended to implode with insecurity. I'm too busy for that most of the time-sometimes I just need to be mr. regular-and not have my partner going into screaming hysteria and pouting over it.

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ORIGINAL: marieToo

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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I think most people on earth would agree that nonconsensual slavery such as that  throughout history is wrong, bad, or any other negative term. 

I would hope so. That's why I was shocked to see so many votes on the Gorean thread for nonconsensual slavery. That made me wonder if folks really grasped just how horrific nonconsensual slavery is.

At first read, I wondered too.  Then I saw all the responses rolling in from all the slaves who claim that they floated powerlessly to their Masters like some kind of divinity that could only exist in a sub-species for a special select few who were 'chosen'.  They're called 'real slaves'.  And their slavery is realer than anyone else's.  In fact it's so real that commoners won't even be able to wrap their heads around the concept of having 'no choice' (non-consent).  Yes, they are romantizing slavery in order to lift themselves and their slavery up, like angles ascending to the heavens. 
 
What they are really doing is trying to redefine "non-consentual slavery" in order to say "my slavery is realer than yours".  I had no choice, I was chosen by Master and helpless against it. And that's why non-goreans weren't wecolmed to post lest they be judged as such, as was the warning in the OP.  They don't need input from outsiders, it might knock their entire illusion off it's fulcrum and they might actually realize that finding a certain spirituality and selflessness in one's "slavehood" most certainly isn't exclusive to Goreans. 
 
Worry not, dc, the bdsm community in general is more firmly rooted in reality from what I have seen, and no one is trying to advocate non-consentual slavery as we know it and define it.
 

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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Good thread topic, DC

Thanks, luci. It was my first foray in posting a BDSM thread, and I've been delighted not to need the flame-retardant gear I toted along.

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ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl

I loved this post - really liked it too much to pick on a typo.

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ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

but what came out of it, after a few exchanges, was the blurring of terms- what most there seemed to be talking about was the internal psychological slavery, where a person is so deeply bound to another they felt helpless to leave.

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We are speaking of con-sen-su-al slavery here.  Which means that the participants have chosen their lot. 

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ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl

We are speaking of con-sen-su-al slavery here. Which means that the participants have chosen their lot.

Consensual slavery is different from non-consensual slavery.

But even in non-consensual slavery, some slaves had rights, educations, free time, property, etc.

Do your research before spouting off.

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ORIGINAL: marieToo

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ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

but what came out of it, after a few exchanges, was the blurring of terms- what most there seemed to be talking about was the internal psychological slavery, where a person is so deeply bound to another they felt helpless to leave.

I'm glad you posted this, because I couldn't think of the term for this particular mindset.  It's actually very common, and often vanilla people experience it with their partners also.

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That group was always a small minority and they could lose all of that in the blink of an eye either at the whim of an owner or the dictates of the state.

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ORIGINAL: MySweetSubmssive

And some of the people on the Gorean board think that all women are wired to be slaves.  While I will not shit in the Gorean sandbox when I wasn't invited there, I will say that I find the idea laughable and a weird way to rationalize one's own kink.

MSS

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ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

~Fast Reply~

Yes I think we do.

Part of the reason I am uncomfortable with the idea of a "true slave" is that I don't believe one exists on these boards. A "true slave" is someone who did not consent to their collar, does not get to beg release, and was - most likely - ripped away from their family with no care as who this person was.

Slavery does still exist today, mostly in the form of sex slaves or domestic workers. They are true slaves and I feel like trying to make ourselves out to be "real" slaves just trivializes their suffering.