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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin

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ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
Either way, you've lost the contest when you issued the challenge.

Wow, and here I thought that these were discussions.....I never realized they were contests. What's the prize?

Maybe a trophy that says "Twue Master" or "Twue slave".

Oh screw that....if there is no chocolate to be had I'm not interested.[;)] Now, if the trophy was filled with chocolate..........

Chocolate-coated Rocky Mountain Oysters?  [&:]

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Since the challenge has been issued, I too can utilize the search function and provide a few quotes.

Bob not ponitificating on these forums and only presenting his opinion? Not posturing himself as an expert and making claims to historical fact that doesnt exist?

Here is a few quotes from one of Bobgkin's first threads on this forum that made quite an impression on me...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1231931/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
I should be clear that BLANK and BLANK are describing 'textbook' definitions for "slave", and I support those definitions fully. They (unknowingly) and I have been describing the nature of the relationships I seek for my future.

But along my path I've come to recognize that the mental health of some may require outside contacts, and as long as that is under the control of a master, I do not see it being any less an M/s relationship.

I know BLANK has already spoken to you on this by saying he does not consider that an M/s relationship. In a purist sense, he is correct.

In a purist sense, a slave has no other desire or need than to please her master.

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
I'll preface this by saying usage of "slave" and "sub" in the following is according to the original definitions I learned long ago when I was starting out in my craft.

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
When people refuse to use the words as they were defined (and both "sub" and "slave" once had their own meanings), confusion is created.

In the particular case of "sub" and "slave", that confusion was created deliberately.

It was created because the arguments used to be who was more invested in bdsm: the sub or the slave.

Back then, the sub was not 24/7. He/she was a part-timer.

Back then, the slave was 24/7. He/she was a full-timer.

Subs did not like the distinction of being considered "bdsm-lite". They did not like the distinction of being the ones who negotiated each scene, where a slave, once owned, negotiated nothing. They didn't like being accused of topping from the bottom (as each scene could be the last one, thus they had the power to curb a dom who was eager for more).

In other words, subs were not slaves, and for many people were less desirable than slaves.

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
BDSM once had its own dialect.

But not anymore.

References to orginal definitions when he learned his craft?
References to textbook definitions?
References to a period of time when BDSM had its own dialect?
References to historical periods of the BDSM community?

Where are the experiences for these references coming from when Bobgkin has clearly stated....

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ORIGINAL: Bobgkin
Some of us have been too busy living real lives to be screwing around with 'BDSM organizations'

Never once been a part of a BDSM organization or the public scene but yet has references to textbook definitions and historical times of the public scene?

How does he know what things were like "back then" when he was never part of the scene "back then"?

Who taught him this textbook and one true way of slave craft if he was never part of any BDSM or Leather organization to learn it from as if there was a textbook one true way to learn?

Not speaking for anyone but himself? Who are "they" in the third quote, Bob? Are "they" sitting at your computer telling you what to type when you speak for them Bob? How do you know "they" Bob when you have never been part of the public scene to know any "they"? Why do you insist on speaking for groups and people you have never met?

If he had done some research on BDSM and Leather history, he would have discovered that any such textbook definitions or orginal definitions are not historical fact.

There you go, Bob. Proof of your fraud, lies and contradictions through your own projection of your homemade definition as some historical fact that you claimed to experience.

Historical fact that is not historical fact in anyway, but rather a fictionous pontification in your attempt to present yourself as an expert.

Misrepresentation? I am only representing your own words in this post, Bob.

Your right, Merc. This is fun.

Rabbit, I have upon many occassions explained that I've particpated on bdsm boards for some 20 years (not counting the last ten or so).

I fail to see how you are overlooking the connection.

20 years of online experience huh?

Hmm...not counting the last ten..so I assume your Internet exploits began 30 years ago.

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You have been participating in Internet boards since 1977? That strikes me as a bit of an odd date for participating in the Internet.

Regardless, such amazing credentials...

You feal qualified to lecture and tell people about what is going on out there in the Scene based on all your years of exposure online?

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Perhaps teach someone about using a whip because you roleplayed using one for 20 years in an Internet chatroom?

Perhaps I should teach about surgery after reading a book on it.

That explains a lot as to the inaccurate information you have tried to teach here.

I look forward to your future posts of false authority, deception, and ignorance. More fun for me.

I can assure you the public scene is a lot different then the Internet, Bob.

I hope day you have some contact with it so you may actually know what you are talking about at some point.

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P.S. Merc has provided the quotes you have been demanding as a requirement for you to defend your viewpoints. If your not the coward you say you arent, I look forward to reading your reply to his post.

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
Anyone who did not learn their BDSM in a public scene from someone else obviously has no business in BDSM, according to Rabbit's standard as presented in his own words above.

Those of us who explored and experimented with significant others for 25+ years have no clue because we did not expose ourselves to the "public scene".

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ORIGINAL: slaveluci

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
Anyone who did not learn their BDSM in a public scene from someone else obviously has no business in BDSM, according to Rabbit's standard as presented in his own words above.

Those of us who explored and experimented with significant others for 25+ years have no clue because we did not expose ourselves to the "public scene".

Bob,
As best I can remember, I have never engaged in any debate with you here in the forums.  I don't have any type of axe to grind with you specifically.  However, after reading through this thread and some recent others I feel compelled to say something here. 

Normally, I would totally agree with your points that one need not be involved in the "public scene" in order to have any knowledge or experience in WIITWD.  I have stated here many times that Master and I are not involved in public scening, munches, the local "community," etc. at all.  That's our choice.  Many others live for it.  That's their choice.  One does not have to enjoy or participate in those activities to have legitimate, valid BDSM experiences, relationships, or knowledge.

HOWEVER, I think you and I and most rational people around here know that that is NOT what MadRabbit meant.  I think it is obvious that what he was indicating was that if your ONLY experiences/knowledge come from internet activities, you could sure use some personal, hands-on experience.  Give MadRabbit a break already.  I honestly don't see that he meant what you are saying he meant.  If I'm wrong, MadRabbit, please correct me.  I just don't see that you meant what Bob is twisting your words to mean.

If the only "BDSM" experiences a person has ever had are online, it would do him/her some good to go out and personally experience some things not online.  That seems to be MadRabbit's point.  As someone who is not interested in public scening or the local "community" at all, I certainly took zero offense at his statement because I was able to take it in the spirit in which it was meant.  If someone besides him had said it, perhaps you could do that as well but you're blinded because of your previous arguments with him.  He didn't mean it like that, alright.  Geesh........................luci

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Folks, as you can see, this goes on and on and on and on and ...

Here we have a textbook example of an internet troll.

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Before the thought is raised, I'll stipulate to being obsessive. I'm obsessive about many things; two of which are: (Not necessarily prioritized)

1. Challenging hypocrisy and fraud
   
2. Fun

Bob's posts provide ample opportunity for doing both.  

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ORIGINAL: http://www.bullyonline.org/related/cyber.htm

"The anger of a serial bully is especially apparent when they come across someone who can see through them to espy the weak, inadequate, immature, dysfunctional aggressive individual behind the mask."

"The objectives of bullies are Power, Control, Domination, Subjugation. They get a kick out of seeing you react. It doesn't matter how you react, the fact they've successful provoked a reaction is, to the bully, a sign that their attempt at control have been successful. After that, it's a question of wearing you down. The more you try to explain, negotiate, conciliate, etc the more gratification they obtain from your increasingly desperate attempts to communicate with them. Understand that it is not possible to communicate in a mature adult manner with a disordered individual who's emotionally retarded."

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As you can see, it will go on and on and on until I capitulate.

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Bobkgin: Also part of the game: Dom responsibility - 8/28/2007 11:38:13 AM 
Back to the block bag for you, boyo. buhbye [:D] 

Mercnbeth:
True/False - Integrity displayed? Another "misrepresentation? No no wait - quoted out of context!

And you came back time and time again, first peeking, and then boldly, without even a hello or an explanation, or flowers....I do feel "betrayed", but will not "withdraw".

Displaying or not displaying "Machismo"; without integrity what else does a Dominant offer? Better yet, what can a Dominant without integrity offer that a submissive or slave can rely? There isn't any "test" that provides proof, only ongoing observation. Consider his own words on the subject as much as we know Bob hates when we do that. If one of Bob's slaves said one thing and did anther what would be his response? As we know from our reading, if one of Bob's "slaves" acted similarly; having gone through all the interviews and evaluations; he'd be withdrawing and feeling betrayed.

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Bobkgin: : Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 10:21:47 AM   refusal to accept the responsibilities she assumed upon entering the relationship is a betrayal of trust. I do not pretend to have authority when her behavior tells me I have none over her. So I withdraw, and wait.

How can a submissive trust someone with their life and well being in real life, who you can't trust to maintain a "block" over a poster on the internet? 

Integrity isn't something to be turned on and off. Bob has illustrated all the bad aspects of on-line. Insecurity, a cowardly stance regarding challenge, a false authority. He's given enough reason to doubt. His integrity and insecurity is documented.

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

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As you can see, it will go on and on and on until I capitulate.

Your game Bob, not mine.

You posed a challenge to the accusations about it - it was provided on a number of issues, you didn't respond with anything other than diversion. I only hold up the mirror. I can't help it if you don't like the image you see.

You reference post #290 why not respond to it?

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Bobkgin: Also part of the game: Dom responsibility - 8/28/2007 11:38:13 AM 
Back to the block bag for you, boyo. buhbye [:D] 

Mercnbeth:
True/False - Integrity displayed? Another "misrepresentation? No no wait - quoted out of context!

And you came back time and time again, first peeking, and then boldly, without even a hello or an explanation, or flowers....I do feel "betrayed", but will not "withdraw".

Displaying or not displaying "Machismo"; without integrity what else does a Dominant offer? Better yet, what can a Dominant without integrity offer that a submissive or slave can rely? There isn't any "test" that provides proof, only ongoing observation. Consider his own words on the subject as much as we know Bob hates when we do that. If one of Bob's slaves said one thing and did anther what would be his response? As we know from our reading, if one of Bob's "slaves" acted similarly; having gone through all the interviews and evaluations; he'd be withdrawing and feeling betrayed.

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Bobkgin: : Safe punishment. - 9/26/2007 10:21:47 AM   refusal to accept the responsibilities she assumed upon entering the relationship is a betrayal of trust. I do not pretend to have authority when her behavior tells me I have none over her. So I withdraw, and wait.

How can a submissive trust someone with their life and well being in real life, who you can't trust to maintain a "block" over a poster on the internet? 

Integrity isn't something to be turned on and off. Bob has illustrated all the bad aspects of on-line. Insecurity, a cowardly stance regarding challenge, a false authority. He's given enough reason to doubt. His integrity and insecurity is documented.

Thank you for your consistency, Bob.

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

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ORIGINAL: Aileen68

You are assuming that men who display their machismo are unintelligent and violent.  I've found this to not be the case.

Ah, but you are a lady and I am a man.

As part of my studies on machismo I used to watch pro wrestling.

Yes it is an act, but a very popular act as one can see if one watches the audience.

Pro wrestling is all about machismo. The stereotyped displays are, to me, "unintelligent and violent".

If that example seems weak, consider the displays of machismo in sports, politics, entertainment.

They all appeal to the less intelligent and those eager for violence, or so it seems to me.

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You have got to be kidding, right?  I hold two degrees and a post-graduate certification in orthopedics.  I LOVE to watch college football, action movies and yes...guilty pleasure when nothing, and I mean nothing, else is on...pro wrestling.  Does this mean that the intelligence I used to get those degrees has seriously waned?  Should I not be involved in the profession I am involved in because I am de-volving?

I suppose this means that my time in the service was not for the reasons I thought...duty to my country, a wish to improve myself, a desire to do what my father had done but rather a thirst and hunger for violence?  A desire to become a macho posturing example of "might makes right"?

My love of motorcycles and hot rods?  My God...I am also an ecologically incorrect macho man.  I wonder if the submissives I have been with and those I talk to feel the same way...or does the fact that I care about the people I see in my profession, the fact that my daughters come to me first with serious questions about sex and life, the fact that my nephews adore their uncle act somehow as cover for the preening beast within?

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Sad to say, but in my opinion the war in Iraq is all about machismo: Bush II had to prove he's a better man than Bush I.

Your Politics May Vary

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Definitely.  That idea has become a rather tired one.

Interesting, Bob that you pick only a select few to "debate" with, yet there are others...such as myself...who present a counter-viewpoint to yours that you don't come back and argue against.  Why is that?  Is it because you choose not to argue in these cases because you cannot dispute what I or others have said?

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

After reading both threads, all I can say is....

This is just priceless.