Blind Obediance and Servitude

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slaverosebeauty -> Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 8:45:04 PM)
It seems like a theme that I hear and see over and over and over the, "I gave up concent" or the "I trust my partner fully" etc. Where does this blindness come from?? Trust is a cop out answer, since trust is relative and it's dependant on many factors. What is the appeal of following blindly?? I'm NOT your typical slave, never have been, never will be; I question the questions and I question the answers, I also question blind and illogical actions and thoughts. I don't follow blindly, I question; its part of the 'job description' as it were; to remember that my priority is to have a mind of my own and to have independant thoughts and to question what goes on around me and to me. Did I miss a day in slave school where it said that following blindly is the norm or that its a safe or logical or rational idea?!

Tigrita -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 8:51:21 PM)
For me, it comes from a deep mental and emotional connection, and two terms that seem almost trite from casual use, but, trust and respect. We understand what drives each other. He might do things to me that I might not enjoy, that might challenge me very deeply, but I know he'd never damage me -- mentally or physically. I also want him to be able to delve deeply into dark things that challenge him as much as they challenge me. That means he trusts me too, to be able to take it, to still respect him as a person. The trust and respect goes just as strong both ways. Having limits and safe words, to us, diminishes a deeper level of communication, understanding, trust, and personal growth. My "blind" devotion is not illogical; it is a little offensive for you to make that assumption. I have very good reason to trust my partner, I would not blindly give myself this way to just anyone. Also should mention I'm not a slave, and I do question before I obey (as I would expect most slaves to also), but basically, if I trust him I will do my best to obey. This does not preclude having a mind of one's own and independent thoughts. Stephan has a slave also and he highly values the independent spirit of both of us. The situation isn't that every single thing we do and think is determined by him. But when he wants something to demonstrate power exchange, if we trust and respect him and consent to the relationship, then we obey. He would not ask anything of us that would truly harm us. Challenge us, certainly. Exceed our comfort, certainly. I consider this growth, I thrive on challenge. I do question, but I also obey because he has earned my trust. That is not a cop out. If ever something happened to cause me to lose trust in him, or if as a result of questioning I determined that obeying or submitting would truly physically or emotionally harm me, I'm free, and expected, to leave the relationship. I completely believe that we both understand each other deeply enough, and communicate deeply enough to not get to that point that. ~J Edited to expand thoughts, and again because I'm bleary eyed and wasn't answering all aspects and making certain things clear.

MissSCD -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 8:57:23 PM)
slaverosebeauty: Let me ask you a question with a question. How do you give blind consent without allowing the Dom/me to have it? Regards, MissSCD

BitaTruble -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 8:58:03 PM)
Well, I have no idea what you mean by 'typical' slave as it seems a very subjective term, but I can say for me, that I don't obey out of blindness. Quite the contrary, in fact. I obey because I'm fully cognizant and aware of the man to whom I've pledge my troth, my obedience, my loyalty and my love. I don't, however, question Masters orders or answers. I asked all my questions and got all my answers 'before' the collar went on. I don't, personally, know of any slave in a long term relationship who follows orders 'blindly' but it could be because I've only been exposed to a very small circle of people when you consider how many slaves there are out there. I must say, too, that I disagree with you completely that trust is a cop out answer. Without trust, why would you obey someone at all, much less, as you put it, blindly? Celeste

xolarkinxo -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 9:15:45 PM)
quote: I obey because I'm fully cognizant and aware of the man to whom I've pledge my troth, my obedience, my loyalty and my love. I agree with Celeste. And I think that each person views things differently. One person's idea of "blindly obeying" may be another's "following with a clear vision." Most of that vision is discussed throughout each passing day as the relationship progresses with imput from both myself and Tacs.

HottLicks -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 9:27:30 PM)
Why does it bother you so much? So much that you come and make a post highly suggestive of your criticism of other people? You fail to adequately explain what you mean, leaving lots of room for argument... but what I see is sarcastic and judgmental. What you so profess to dislike when it is used against you. Do you know the meaning of trust and why do you question the trust between those you are highly critical of here? I may be new here... but I think I've got your number. 1-800- perfect

SixFootMaster -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 9:40:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty It seems like a theme that I hear and see over and over and over the, "I gave up concent" or the "I trust my partner fully" etc. Yes, that's because it's the option these people followed, and yes, they do trust their partner fully and that trust has enabled them to give up that control. Trust isn't instant or automatic, it's earned and built up through experience. Where does this blindness come from?? Trust is a cop out answer, since trust is relative and it's dependant on many factors. You seem to have issues with trusting people - that's fine, although not healthy - as you say, it's dependant on many factors, most of which are met, indeed exceeded, in happy D/s relationships. What is the appeal of following blindly?? Being able to trust fully, and therefore devote yourself entirely to pleasing the person your universe revolves around is a very engaging and resonant concept. Knowing in your heart that even though you are bound, gagged, blindfolded, and utterly helpless, what choice do you have but to trust? If you cannot trust, you will never find that level of fulfillment, in being able to submit your life to another person. I'm NOT your typical slave, never have been, never will be; I question the questions and I question the answers, I also question blind and illogical actions and thoughts. I don't follow blindly, I question; its part of the 'job description' as it were; to remember that my priority is to have a mind of my own and to have independant thoughts and to question what goes on around me and to me. You aren't a slave then. QED. You're playing at it. Did I miss a day in slave school where it said that following blindly is the norm or that its a safe or logical or rational idea?! Obviously.

crouchingtigress -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 9:42:34 PM)
there is no such thing as a typical slave...the journey to become a slave is a highly personal and often painful, powerful and tumultuous one.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 9:44:14 PM)
I agree with Celeste and will add that it's very nice when I've seen enough that it's ok if I'm blind with my partner :)

slavegirljoy -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 9:51:51 PM)
i didn't give up consent. i consented (and continue to consent) to give up my right to make the decisions about how i live my life and i handed that decision-making power over to my Master. i do trust my Master completely, whether my eyes are wide open or blindfolded. If i didn't trust Him completely, i never would have consented to become His property. i wouldn't want to be the property of anyone who i didn't trust completely, whether blindly or not. The appeal of following blindly, for me, is that a feeling of total powerlessness is the greatest aphrodisiac i have ever known. i follow Him, wherever He leads me because that is what i wanted to do and i chose Him to be my Owner and Master with my eyes wide open so that i could get to the point where i am now, being comfortable and confident in His ability to lead me, whether my eyes are open or not. i have a mind of my own and i do ask questions. In fact, my Master requires me to use my brain and to ask questions and to share my thoughts and feelings with Him. i didn't go to 'slave school' and, there's no doubt in my mind that i'm not 'the norm' of slaves, because there is no 'norm', that i'm aware of. Each of us is unique. slave joy Owned property of Master David quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty It seems like a theme that I hear and see over and over and over the, "I gave up concent" or the "I trust my partner fully" etc. Where does this blindness come from?? Trust is a cop out answer, since trust is relative and it's dependant on many factors. What is the appeal of following blindly?? I'm NOT your typical slave, never have been, never will be; I question the questions and I question the answers, I also question blind and illogical actions and thoughts. I don't follow blindly, I question; its part of the 'job description' as it were; to remember that my priority is to have a mind of my own and to have independant thoughts and to question what goes on around me and to me. Did I miss a day in slave school where it said that following blindly is the norm or that its a safe or logical or rational idea?!

dragonslave77 -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 10:06:05 PM)
It is not blindly following, not even close. As many have stated it is a matter of trust. I don't question what my Mistress asks me to do, or not do, because I trust that Her intent is good, and that She holds my best interests at heart. As BitaTruble stated, I do this because I have already made the choice, the fully aware cognizant choice of who my Mistress is, and what sort of person She is, and that She is one worthy of trust, loyalty and if you wish to phrase it as such, blind devotion to following Her orders. The changes She has both directly and indirectly brought about in my life are ones I will never be able to thank Her for. She has, in many ways, saved my life. How could I not trust Her? All that being said, would I blindly follow Her order if She wanted me to jump off a bridge? No I would not. But again, I trust and know She would not. Why would She save my life only to have my jump off a bridge? She would not. Trust isn't a cop out, it is the honest truth of why some seeming follow and obey blindly. Furthermore, it is the deep trust I have in Her that allows me to fully and deep enjoy what we experience together, and allows both of us to grow and develop as people, separately and together.

masterjim37 -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 10:36:42 PM)
I think most of you are missing a big part of Slaverosebueaty's question. Trust is a cop out of sorts for you to have such faith in another person. Is trust any more important than, passion, devotion,goals, needs,common ideas, Love and all those other things that make a relationship work. If all you have is trust with your partner, thats a pretty weak reason to be in a relationship , be it vanilla or b/d s/m. All those other reasons you choose to serve another, or care/control another are just as important. With out them, you have little more than a pet that can perform a few tricks. Like Dragonslave77 stated, its your trust thats lets you know( hopefully )that your partner won't ask something of you your not willing to give. I'm not sure that many of us could ever really get to blindly obeying someone unless we were mental altered by training to completly forget about any self preservation, becuase only then could you truely give blind trust. Then anything asked of you would be aceptable and ok with you. I do understand that we all define terms and beliefs in our own way, and only by discussing it can we hope to see and understand how another defines the same terms themselves. With that said, I wish you all well, and much happiness, and perhaps and open mind to ask questions about someones definitions before you verbaly shoot at them. masterjim

NLitendLady -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 10:48:47 PM)
I believe it all comes down to taking the time to know your partner. If you know without a doubt your best interests are always in mind and you've experienced little reason to distrust, there is a likelihood you will begin to cease questioning and obey. It comes after time and after learning you are able to trust them completely. I've always been someone who questions and who often plays devil's advocate. If there is any question about keeping my best interests in mind or one too many "mistakes" or wrong decisions I would begin questioning in earnest. I've always been with Dominants who believe a sub/slave's mind is a great tool and who have asked my opinion and sought my knowlege before making choices and decisions. There are people I've learned to trust where I no longer question but do what is expected such as my father, my best friend, my sister etc. They have proven over time to be trustworthy. To serve someone and choose to belong to them comes from many areas not just trust and obediance. Obediance must come from a desire to serve as well as trust in the one you are serving. Love and respect and all of the other things that make a relationship are there as well but trust is primary in obeying someone.

HottLicks -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 11:30:01 PM)
Most answered the op in a very nice way. I did not. Nor will I when the assumptions and judgments or lack of social graces when dealing with others adds up from one post to another. I answered as the total witch I can be when I see people spoken to that way. Maybe I am the odd man out and will be seen as the problem, but I don't do holier than thou too well. When someone shoots... I sometimes shoot back. If someone wants to know something... please ask... let's talk, let's debate even, but when I repeatedly saw her bashing others, I decided to say something. I have strong opinions and many might not like them. Some might think many things of me but I tend to have issue with people who harm others and who mistreat others and the op just seemed to be in attack mode rather than a mode of wanting to question something and make a point. quote: ORIGINAL: masterjim37 I think most of you are missing a big part of Slaverosebueaty's question. Trust is a cop out of sorts for you to have such faith in another person. Is trust any more important than, passion, devotion,goals, needs,common ideas, Love and all those other things that make a relationship work. If all you have is trust with your partner, thats a pretty weak reason to be in a relationship , be it vanilla or b/d s/m. All those other reasons you choose to serve another, or care/control another are just as important. With out them, you have little more than a pet that can perform a few tricks. Like Dragonslave77 stated, its your trust thats lets you know( hopefully )that your partner won't ask something of you your not willing to give. I'm not sure that many of us could ever really get to blindly obeying someone unless we were mental altered by training to completly forget about any self preservation, becuase only then could you truely give blind trust. Then anything asked of you would be aceptable and ok with you. I do understand that we all define terms and beliefs in our own way, and only by discussing it can we hope to see and understand how another defines the same terms themselves. With that said, I wish you all well, and much happiness, and perhaps and open mind to ask questions about someones definitions before you verbaly shoot at them. masterjim

SixFootMaster -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 11:48:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HottLicks Why does it bother you so much? So much that you come and make a post highly suggestive of your criticism of other people? You fail to adequately explain what you mean, leaving lots of room for argument... but what I see is sarcastic and judgmental. What you so profess to dislike when it is used against you. Do you know the meaning of trust and why do you question the trust between those you are highly critical of here? I may be new here... but I think I've got your number. 1-800- perfect I'll be honest - her attitude in the "questioning the questions" part of her post reflected the "I'm special" mentality of people who practice pagan religions not from faith or belief, but to be recognised as one of the "enlightened" ones that truly understands the "secrets" of the world.

masterjim37 -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 11:52:14 PM)
Hottlicks I wasn't singling anyone out for any response. I was making a general statement of how I see most of theses boards, and why I very rarely write to them. I notice out of my statement the only part you bother to reply to is the last sentence, why not any the body.. the part that counts? just a observation. I honestly try not to take sides, but look to understand how others see it. Perhaps she has just as strong opinions as you do, emotion can be a tricky thing to conrol and funnel in the right direction. masterjim

laurell3 -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 11:52:47 PM)
Trust is not remotely close to being blind and takes time to develop. Assuming people aren't intelligent enough to figure out who to trust before "blindly" (see that just makes me think they're blindfolded, because I'm not sure any thought is ever blind) following is silly. Once true trust is established, why not follow? Without getting into semantics and personal definitions, isn't that the essence of being a slave? l

HottLicks -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 11:55:10 PM)
I didn't feel singled out. I kind of pointed myself out as a matter of fact. I responded to what I wanted to. Take it for what it's worth. I would rather think on what you said and take some time. At the same time, I didn't need to think long on certain parts. lol

masterjim37 -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/9/2007 11:58:40 PM)
Understand, Thank you for telling me that, it makes it more understandable. Well, best wishes, and good nite all. masterjim

HottLicks -> RE: Blind Obediance and Servitude (10/10/2007 12:17:38 AM)
masterjim, I tried to email you but I can't. It said you didn't have a profile. I don't like to fight and I have been rather bulldogish here... but I'm relaxing my jaw. Thanks... have a good night.

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