RE: No limits - and what it really means (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion



Message


mistoferin -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 7:23:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
People need to turn their brains back on when reading what exactly two people are claiming and carry the thoughts through to some rational and logical conclusions.


There are only a few conclusions that the logical and rational mind can draw from the scenarios as depicted.....fantasy BS or insanity.


and that is a conclusion that many would rather avoid.... so better to keep logic and a rational mind out of the equation.


You are sooooo right. It's much easier to pretend there ISN'T an elephant in the living room than to acknowledge there is one.




ownedgirlie -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 9:15:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
You are sooooo right. It's much easier to pretend there ISN'T an elephant in the living room than to acknowledge there is one.


For some this is indeed true. And yet for some others, it is easier to criticize that which they do not understand in a person.

I have personally never thought my inability to say no to my Master is neither glorified nor romantic, like MadRabbit is claiming people are doing.  It simply "is".

And it is my opinion, that anyone who will take someone who they believe is seriously lacking in self esteem and then further criticize them as MR has continued to do, is exhibiting disgusting behavior - worse than any "over the top" claim of submission, true or untrue.





slavegirljoy -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 9:21:39 AM)

Fast Reply:
 
If a Master finds a woman who does everything He tells her to do, without argument, without hesitation, without making any demands on Him, without giving Him a hard time and, she never denies Him anything and, she gives Him all the service He desires in every way that He desires and, she is pleasant company to Him and, she cooks well for Him and, she keeps His home clean and comfortable and, she is a trusted friend to Him and, He can whip her and tie her up and gag her and drip hot wax on her and yank her by her hair and piss in her mouth whenever He feels like it and, tells her where to sleep and, tells her when she can have sex and when she can orgasm and, He controls the TV viewing always and she is happy with this life, is that such a terrible thing?  Is that abusive and ugly to you?  And, even if it is, doesn't she have the right to decide if it isn't ugly or abusive to her but, beautiful and rewarding, instead? 
 
Just because a woman enters into a relationship, fully aware and accepting of what her Master is capable of doing to her, and she is content with her life and how He treats her, in whatever way that is, why should she be looked down upon by others as someone who doesn't have self-respect or self-worth or is considered to be a bullshit artist or to be living in some made-up, fantasy world, with no grasp on reality?  Don't we all have the right to determine what is right for our own life and our own happiness and fulfillment?  Why can't someone live this way?  Why shouldn't they? 
 
Maybe the ones who are so critical of the possibility of a no limits Master/slave relationship are just afraid of what they, themself, might be capable of doing to another, if they were in such a relationship.
 
Don't you think that a Master, who has complete control over a slave, values what He has and doesn't want to lose it and, therefor, takes great care not to abuse His position of power over her, simply to show that He can?  After all, it can take a Master many long years of searching to find the willing and loyal slave that will satisfy His every need and desire.  Why on Earth would He want to destroy her, just because He can?  That makes no sense to me, at all.
 
Just the fact that my Master never has to worry about hearing me say any of the following:

"No"
"Not now, i'm tired, busy, etc."

"What do i look like, Your slave?"
"Do it/get it Yourself"
"Who made You the boss of me?"
"OK but, only if You take me to dinner, buy me something, etc."
"It's my turn to pick the TV show, movie, where to go for dinner, etc."
"Oh, do i have to?"
"i need some money, new shoes, a new dress, etc."
"You never buy me anything"
"i don't want to"
"i do so much for You"
"You don't appreciate me"
"Make me"
"You need to take out the trash, clean out the garage, pick up Your dirty socks, etc."
"i'm calling the police"
"You don't own me"
"my mother wants us to come over Sunday so, You can't watch football, go golfing, etc."
 
etc., etc., etc., makes me a valuable asset to Him and, gives Him absolutely no reason or desire to do me in, even though He could, just like any other man (or woman) can take the life or cause grave bodily harm to the person they are with. 
 
The news is full of reports of husbands and wives and boyfriends and girlfriends doing each other in every day and i haven't heard of one instance in which any of them were killed or maimed because they were a no limits slave to the other.
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David




came4U -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 9:23:42 AM)

quote:

And it is my opinion, that anyone who will take someone who they believe is seriously lacking in self esteem and then further criticize them as MR has continued to do, is exhibiting disgusting behavior - worse than any "over the top" claim of submission, true or untrue.


Should we then coddle the insecure as a no-touch, hands off discussion policy whether we are aware of their ailment or not?

I can't keep track of who is of higher esteem than others.  I don't keep lists of the who's who of posters's mental health issues.

I guess I have to scroll back to previous pages to find out. uhg





ownedgirlie -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 9:30:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

quote:

And it is my opinion, that anyone who will take someone who they believe is seriously lacking in self esteem and then further criticize them as MR has continued to do, is exhibiting disgusting behavior - worse than any "over the top" claim of submission, true or untrue.


Should we then coddle the insecure as a no-touch, hands off discussion policy whether we are aware of their ailment or not?


Nope.  You're going from one extreme to the other.  I'm not sure why, but that's your perogative to do so if you wish.  I simply have more respect for people who choose to engage in conversations that do not include flinging accusations and mockery at others.  I've never been a fan of coddling, and I doubt I ever will be.


quote:


I can't keep track of who is of higher esteem than others.  I don't keep lists of the who's who of posters's mental health issues.


Nor can I, but others seem to be keeping score, and that is what I was addressing. 

quote:


I guess I have to scroll back to previous pages to find out. uhg


If you wish.  I'm not sure why you replied to my post if you did not know what I was posting to...?




mistoferin -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 9:34:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy
Don't we all have the right to determine what is right for our own life and our own happiness and fulfillment?  Why can't someone live this way?  Why shouldn't they? 


Yes. They can....and they should if that is what they so desire. Provided of course....and I will say it again and again regardless of those who want to continue to ignore it or treat it like it has absolutely no bearing....because it DOES....that the involved parties are CAPABLE of making that choice and consenting from a MENTALLY COMPETENT perspective that would make that consent valid. When someone is LEGALLY declared MENTALLY INCOMPETENT they can NOT give VALID consent.




came4U -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 9:36:17 AM)

oh, I've been following it not too closely ownedgirlie, I just am unsure which one you refered to in your post.




MadRabbit -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 9:43:26 AM)

Fast Reply to No One in Particular.

*whistles*

Okay so lets try this again since no one can follow logic...

If a Master never ever takes a relationship into the realm of the worst possible case scenario of abuse and mistreatment, then the absence of a scenario where a slave has to say "No" doesnt equate to never saying "No" to a Master in any scenario.
 
Its simply a relationship that has never gone into areas that would require a slave to say "No".

In short, its all theoretical claims of people and nothing factual.

If a Master does take a relationship into scenarios of abuse and mistreatment and a slave endures the brutuality of someone who has clearly demonstrated he has no sense of respect or worth towards his slave, then, the logical conclusion is that slave has serious mental issues with her own self respect or self worth for enduring things from a man who has no respect or sense of worth for the slave.

The fantasy ideal of "I gave my consent once and now I have no choice but to endure this man's abuse" is nothing more than an excuse and Internet drivel to blind side the simple logic that the slave is an adult who is always making choices regardless of how she wants to narrate the relationship.

The notion that its all the Master's responsibility is only buyig into the notion that slave's arent responsible for their own choices.

If you are in an abusive relationship and continue to stay in an abusive relationship under the intellgiently insulting logic that its a "No Limits" relationship and you are "a super slave who must endure all that the Master who owns you dishes out", you are responsible for being in that relationship (as well as responsible for being dumb).

Hey...you know what everyone should do...

They should take all these straw men they keep making, dress them up as scarecrows, and put them beside the Jack - O - Lanterns out on the front lawn this Halloween.

I bet they will look really cute.

In fact, everyone can get together and make scarecrows together and talk about how much they hate how I am injecting pragmatic reality into this discussion filled with fantasy drivel.




came4U -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 9:46:48 AM)

quote:

If you are in an abusive relationship and continue to stay in an abusive relationship under the intellgiently insulting logic that its a "No Limits" relationship and you are "a super slave who must endure all that the Master who owns you dishes out", you are responsible for being in that relationship (as well as responsible for being dumb).


Been there, done that, it became wreckless and unproductive. That undenyable duty that kept me from saying 'no' almost became the ruin of me.  For sanity and limb sake walking away is the eventual best option.




susie -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 9:48:35 AM)

I have a question for those that say they are "no limits" slaves. If you were uncollared or free tomorrow and met a new Dominant, would you automatically agree to be "no limits" with them from the start. If not why not. Are you only saying now that you are a "no limits" slave because of the relationship you are in.




TotalState -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 9:50:03 AM)

Slavegirljoy, you seem an intelligent woman.  Don't you recognize that your Master is simply not making you do things that would make you unhappy in the long run?  Do you think you'd consent to having him shit in your mouth every night until you got sick?  What if he liked having her in a stage of constant sickness?  Constant heartbreak?  What if he simply likes you to be unhappy?

You *trust* him not to cause you grievious bodily or mental harm, and you don't *want* him to.  If you don't walk away if he *were* causing you unwanted harm (and there is always such a thing...he is clearly not causing it to you), then I think you no longer have the most important essence of a good BDSM relationship: consent.

You are leading a no different life from some of the slaves I know, with the little difference that they *know* and *recognize* that there are certain things that they simply will not stand for, and would walk away if that was done to them.  That's what we try to tell newbies they should always be aware of.  Without limits, there simply isn't consent, there simply isn't choice.




MadRabbit -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 9:56:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I have personally never thought my inability to say no to my Master is neither glorified nor romantic, like MadRabbit is claiming people are doing.  It simply "is".

And it is my opinion, that anyone who will take someone who they believe is seriously lacking in self esteem and then further criticize them as MR has continued to do, is exhibiting disgusting behavior - worse than any "over the top" claim of submission, true or untrue.




Having an inability to say "No" and demonstrating a deep level of devotion and surrender towards a man who respects you and values your worth is something great.

Having an inability to say "No" to a man who has zero respect for you or value for you that he will want you to endure harmful and abusive things is something very bad.

The sheer logic that a slave gives up all limits to a Master they trust to act with restraint and boundaries is what makes the healthy "No Limits" relationships work.

Not defining boundaries with a master does not equate to boundaries not existing.

These are the points I am trying to convey. I am not making condemnations or judgements of all "No Limit" slaves.

I am simply taking the narrations being presented here and following them out with logical and rational thinking.




ownedgirlie -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 10:03:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

I have a question for those that say they are "no limits" slaves. If you were uncollared or free tomorrow and met a new Dominant, would you automatically agree to be "no limits" with them from the start. If not why not. Are you only saying now that you are a "no limits" slave because of the relationship you are in.


I answered that in Post #187 of this thread.




chellekitty -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 10:12:16 AM)

how can you answer something in post #187 of this thread when this is post #174?

edited to add: or are you predicting the future?




ownedgirlie -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 10:15:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

how can you answer something in post #187 of this thread when this is post #174?

edited to add: or are you predicting the future?


Yeah, I have great premonition abilities, I'm glad somoene finally noticed.

Because I forgot to post the link:  http://www.collarchat.com/m_1279529/mpage_10/key_limits/tm.htm#1283141




came4U -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 10:24:29 AM)

quote:

I have a question for those that say they are "no limits" slaves. If you were uncollared or free tomorrow and met a new Dominant, would you automatically agree to be "no limits" with them from the start. If not why not. Are you only saying now that you are a "no limits" slave because of the relationship you are in.


good question Susie.

and the answer is a big no. I would never put myself in that situation again.  Anyone who claims they would never had their passport withheld, and other such nonsense of not only physical but legal status.

ownedgirlie: k i read that thread link and understand. thanks. 




KaraThrace -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 10:29:22 AM)

Fast reply because I saw the word true and started to twitch:

I've discovered no-limits is a fantasy. Because most rational human beings would not allow someone to cause them..oh i dont know.. death..

and true is in the eye of the beholder.

Which is why i go about life happy to be FAKE!




susie -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 10:39:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

quote:

I have a question for those that say they are "no limits" slaves. If you were uncollared or free tomorrow and met a new Dominant, would you automatically agree to be "no limits" with them from the start. If not why not. Are you only saying now that you are a "no limits" slave because of the relationship you are in.


good question Susie.

and the answer is a big no. I would never put myself in that situation again.  Anyone who claims they would never had their passport withheld, and other such nonsense of not only physical but legal status.

ownedgirlie: k i read that thread link and understand. thanks. 


Thanks.

So it is obvious from that response that as far as ownedgirlie is concerned her no limits is in fact based on her relationship. It is the same with me. I could honestly say that with my Master I am no limits because I know there is absolutely no way on earth he would ever do something to damage me. He loves me and would never dream of harming me. He also knows there is nothing I would not agree to if he asked me. We are together because we see life the same way, love the same things. laugh at the same things so he would never give that up by risking endangering me in any way.

I am pretty sure that all the others that say they are no limits know the same as me, that we are happy to say that in our relationship we are no limits with the person we are with because they care to much about what they own.

In my opinion, anyone who is in a relationship where they really feel that their owner/Master could or would damage them (that goes for emotionally as well as physically) and feel that that person has a right to do so, is not in a healthy relationship. I know this will be unpopular but anyone that believes that their owner has the right to demand they do something that would kill or maim them is not a stable person.




came4U -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 10:45:59 AM)

quote:

In my opinion, anyone who is in a relationship where they really feel that their owner/Master could or would damage them (that goes for emotionally as well as physically) and feel that that person has a right to do so, is not in a healthy relationship. I know this will be unpopular but anyone that believes that their owner has the right to demand they do something that would kill or maim them is not a stable person.


I agree. Have been there. There was no 'negotiation' of limits, no safecall, it was real life, not a game, not romantic, it was WORK. A hard, debilitating job. Nor was it 'cute' and you dress up for a lil 'punishment'.  You don't see it coming and it is REAL, no happiness at bruises except the smiles on the Master's face.

If it is safe, sane and healthy, there is no way it is 'no limits'.  The only truth lies in that no limits is pure unknowing insanity, one instant, one day at a time. 




PapiNsweet -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/18/2007 1:29:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy
Don't we all have the right to determine what is right for our own life and our own happiness and fulfillment?  Why can't someone live this way?  Why shouldn't they? 


Yes. They can....and they should if that is what they so desire. Provided of course....and I will say it again and again regardless of those who want to continue to ignore it or treat it like it has absolutely no bearing....because it DOES....that the involved parties are CAPABLE of making that choice and consenting from a MENTALLY COMPETENT perspective that would make that consent valid. When someone is LEGALLY declared MENTALLY INCOMPETENT they can NOT give VALID consent.


yes, you've said this over and over again, and it amazes me that you make these statements with such conviction and such faith in the law, as if it is this all-knowing, all-mighty, perfect and just entity that is the ultimate word in judging what is good or bad, right or wrong. everyday our legal and mental health system flocks up countless lives, many times their judgements have proven to be unsound, illogical, biased, ignorant. if you personally wish to believe that myself and anyone else who has ever been legally declared mentally incompetent incapable of ever giving valid consent, that is your perogative to do so, but i would hope that most would use their minds, heart and good sense.

-prop




Page: <<   < prev  7 8 [9] 10 11   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875