RE: No limits - and what it really means

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daddysprop247 -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 7:45:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Then you need to reread my post because we are mincing words. You might want to reread some of the past posts you have made and some of the things you have claimed. Taking on the limits of your Master is not the same as having no limits. Allowing those limits to be pushed and changed isnt the same thing. You got an apple, but want to keep argueing its an orange. I would be interesting in you providing some examples of these things that have put you in physical and psychological danger. I can put someone in danger by putting a knife close to their neck with the risk of an accident happening and cutting an artery. I can cause some minor psychological trauma by pushing past a limit with watersports, but it wont be anything that would qualify as "harm" in the scope of emotional damage. If you want to make the claim that your removal of personal limits with him doesnt come with faith and trust in his benevolance as a human being, then I consider your entering the relationship with him to be a very stupid decision, because in my firm opinion, that faith and trust is what greases the gears of the relationship. If you want to claim that you will not enforce boundaries with him when he is putting you in life threatening harm, then I say we arent in Kansas anymore. (Edited to Add : And so we arent argueing over semantics, when I say "life threatening", I dont mean "walking outside to get the paper and being exposed to the threat of getting hit by a meteor". I mean "If you do this, you are going to die") If it is true, then I consider you to be a dangerous individual and the worst slave to own. It is my firm opinion that anyone will trully do anything with no regard to the amount of harm that comes of them simply for the power trip of another human being is the worst slave to own. People might make the "self sacrifice" arguments in rebuttal to this, but someone who sacrfices their life to save the life of a loved one and someone who lets someone kill them simply because of their Master's whim are not in the same context AT ALL. If someone were to willing allow their Master to drown them in a bathtub for their own pleasyre and try to make it as easy as possible, well...that might sound all wonderful and great in fantasy and romantic land and a really nice ending to a romantic Master and slave fantasy story, but in reality, I call that person the very literal definition of a "doormat". I am glad we have fully left the land of reality and rationality and entered the "No Limits" zone where things that in reality are very negative get narrated and romanticized as something beautiful and glorified. for you, a slave who imposes no limits on her Master, who obeys without question, hesitation or restriction, who considers her Master's will to be law and places him above herself always, is the worst sort of slave to own. that's fine, that's your belief and preference. but for others, such a slave is the ONLY kind of slave to own, because they will accept nothing else in an ownership dynamic. as for the doormat comment, i've never understood where the great insult lies in being a doormat, particularly to one's own Master. from my viewpoint it seems a bit strange that a Master would want his slave to fight, refuse or disobey him, or to consider her own wellbeing before his will. but whatever floats your boat i guess. still, like others have said, i am just tired of the total disrespect and lack of acceptance towards those of us who live the other side.

Bondagenexus -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 8:01:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit First off, I am reading what you are saying and I am trying to understand your relationship, [snip] I am reading it also and trying to understand her relationship. quote: obviously if he were drowning me (and i used this example in the other thread) i would fight back physically because that's what my body is supposed to do, but i would do my damndest not to make it any harder than it has to be. obviously my health causes problems...if he were to want me to kneel for 12 hours, i might be crying in pain about an hour through it but i would do my damndest to stay on my knees. to me it means i actively trust in him and choose not to impose any kinds of limits or boundaries on his ownership of me. i don't consider it romantic; personally, walking off a cliff is not my idea of a good time. if he wanted it, i'd do it, but that doesn't mean i live in some wonderful fantasyland of being a no limits slave. Count me as another who is off his rocker. While I could not imagine this drowning or cliff diving actually happening in my wildest dreams, the example speaks to me as a Dominant. There is something beautiful and amazing in the promise to actively trust even in the most extreme examples. Where do I hand in my "Good Dominant" card? [&:]

TotalState -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 8:23:56 AM)
I hope that you "non-limit" people are at least not advocating this to others. This is seriously dangerous and irresponsible, in my opinion.

velvetears -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 8:28:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 [i am just tired of the total disrespect and lack of acceptance towards those of us who live the other side. You fail to understand that for some that is the point. If the claims you make are true the only way to prove them would be to actually perish at the hands of your Master - if thats the case you don't "live" on any side.

Bondagenexus -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 8:45:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears You fail to understand that for some that is the point. If the claims you make are true the only way to prove them would be to actually perish at the hands of your Master - if thats the case you don't "live" on any side. Consider that this is missing the point. First, let's take your assertion at face value. What would we say if a no-limits slave walked off the cliff to her bloody death? "Damn, I guess she really was a fine and obedient slave." Noooooo, we'd say there was something wrong with both the slave and her owner. I would. Proving that a no-limit arrangement works or is lunacy may not be the issue, at least for me. I was looking for validation in this thread, and I think I got it. And, no, I don't recommend either side of a no-limits D/s relationship to anyone who isn't drawn to it.

velvetears -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 8:54:26 AM)
Well i am glad you got your validation, if thats what you needed. i find the whole no limits thing to be a big illusion - not to say those who claim it aren't sincere, perhaps they are. i think they are living in a fantasy world, that is my opinion. i prefer to live with realistic expectations and not make promises i cannot keep. i prefer to be with someone who will respect that i have, want, and need limits.

MadRabbit -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 2:44:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Then you need to reread my post because we are mincing words. You might want to reread some of the past posts you have made and some of the things you have claimed. Taking on the limits of your Master is not the same as having no limits. Allowing those limits to be pushed and changed isnt the same thing. You got an apple, but want to keep argueing its an orange. I would be interesting in you providing some examples of these things that have put you in physical and psychological danger. I can put someone in danger by putting a knife close to their neck with the risk of an accident happening and cutting an artery. I can cause some minor psychological trauma by pushing past a limit with watersports, but it wont be anything that would qualify as "harm" in the scope of emotional damage. If you want to make the claim that your removal of personal limits with him doesnt come with faith and trust in his benevolance as a human being, then I consider your entering the relationship with him to be a very stupid decision, because in my firm opinion, that faith and trust is what greases the gears of the relationship. If you want to claim that you will not enforce boundaries with him when he is putting you in life threatening harm, then I say we arent in Kansas anymore. (Edited to Add : And so we arent argueing over semantics, when I say "life threatening", I dont mean "walking outside to get the paper and being exposed to the threat of getting hit by a meteor". I mean "If you do this, you are going to die") If it is true, then I consider you to be a dangerous individual and the worst slave to own. It is my firm opinion that anyone will trully do anything with no regard to the amount of harm that comes of them simply for the power trip of another human being is the worst slave to own. People might make the "self sacrifice" arguments in rebuttal to this, but someone who sacrfices their life to save the life of a loved one and someone who lets someone kill them simply because of their Master's whim are not in the same context AT ALL. If someone were to willing allow their Master to drown them in a bathtub for their own pleasyre and try to make it as easy as possible, well...that might sound all wonderful and great in fantasy and romantic land and a really nice ending to a romantic Master and slave fantasy story, but in reality, I call that person the very literal definition of a "doormat". I am glad we have fully left the land of reality and rationality and entered the "No Limits" zone where things that in reality are very negative get narrated and romanticized as something beautiful and glorified. for you, a slave who imposes no limits on her Master, who obeys without question, hesitation or restriction, who considers her Master's will to be law and places him above herself always, is the worst sort of slave to own. that's fine, that's your belief and preference. but for others, such a slave is the ONLY kind of slave to own, because they will accept nothing else in an ownership dynamic. as for the doormat comment, i've never understood where the great insult lies in being a doormat, particularly to one's own Master. from my viewpoint it seems a bit strange that a Master would want his slave to fight, refuse or disobey him, or to consider her own wellbeing before his will. but whatever floats your boat i guess. still, like others have said, i am just tired of the total disrespect and lack of acceptance towards those of us who live the other side. I dont know. Maybe I prefer some slaves with some sense of self worth and sense of self respect. Wow....I'm the wrong one because I want a partner with self esteem. The descent into madness is almost mind boggling. I am tired of listening to people who feel the need to glorify something that doesnt need to be glorified or even entered into the scope of rational or logical thought. As if somehow... Someone who would let their Master drown them while trying to make it as least resistable as possible... Someone who would walk off a cliff to their death based on their Master's whim... Someone who would let their Master tie them to a tree and leave them in the middle of nowhere for a week.... is something that can be considered a "good and healthy thing" in the scope of rational and logical thought. Maybe in Daddysprops fantasy world, but in my pragmatic and realist perspective, I would call these things a serious lack of self worth. I've read a few more examples of "No Limit" relationships and I will gladly recognize them as "No Limit" relationships. I am not saying "No Limits" in the scope of a relationship cant exist according to certain definitions, but still as I read these posts, I find nothing contary to the very simple logic I am holding to. Being in an enviroment where one doesnt NEED to enforce boundaries to protect themselves from harm is not the same thing as a human being who will not enforce boundaries to protect themselves from harm when needed. Fortune and healthy circumstances where certain boundaries dont have to be crossed doesnt equate to a "factual" definition where all boundaries can be crossed or will be allowed to be crossed. I have gladly accepted quite a few definitions of "No Limits", but some people insist on taking this far down the Rabbit Hole into Wonderland. If some people want to make the claim to being super slaves who will not enforce ANY boundaries when push comes to shove, they can go right ahead. I'll beleive it when I see some obituaries. I'm sure some people at the eulogy will cry and say "Wow, its so romantic. This slave's devotion was so strong that she self destructed simply for the sheer whim of her Master." I, unfortanely, will be the guy in the background going "What a nut with no sense of self worth and a pointless waste of human life." But until that day comes, dont expect me to turn off my brain and beleive that the Internet manifestos of a 19 year old and a 26 year old are actual proof of the existence of the mythical "No Limits" slave with absolutely no limtis and who will not enforce any boundary in any circumstance because of their hardcore super slave devotion. A whole score of book writers and people with tons of experience with the public scene have all made to claim to never ever meeting anyone quite like you, but yet...amazingly....here you are on Collarme.com for all to see. Want respect? Write something worth respecting.

MadRabbit -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 2:52:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bondagenexus Count me as another who is off his rocker. While I could not imagine this drowning or cliff diving actually happening in my wildest dreams, the example speaks to me as a Dominant. There is something beautiful and amazing in the promise to actively trust even in the most extreme examples. Where do I hand in my "Good Dominant" card? [&:] And I would agree with you if she was actually speaking about a deeper level of trust and not about actually doing the things if they were to happen.

BitaTruble -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 3:06:20 PM)
~FR~ True story. It was our second meeting. I didn't trust him. Hell, I barely knew him. He stood behind me with an arm drapped, in a rather lazy fashion, around my shoulders with a butcher knife held to my throat and whispered in my ear, "I could kill you now and bury you in my basement and no one would ever find you." That was a fact. No one knew where I was or what I was doing. I wanted him to do it. Oh god, but I really wanted him to do it. I even spoke the words. "Do it." I didn't know, in that moment, whether he would do it or not but I didn't struggle or try to stop him. What a rush that was.. what a thrill. Absolutely amazing. In that moment, where I faced my death I had never felt so fucking alive. I had never felt that way before and I have never felt that way again and I will never feel that again because with Michael I 'know' he won't ever go there ... but Master A, he may have .. he didn't, but he may have and that uncertainty was intoxicating. I could easily see how it could become addictive. I didn't die, so I can't 'prove' what, apparently needs to happen for proof to be obtained but not because I didn't want it .. but because he didn't do it. I really don't know what else to say. I know, for a fact, that the intoxication of the unknown can be an incredible drug and if you keep going further and further to obtain it's fix, eventually limits and boundaries become meaningless because they will prevent you from finding the unicorn you seek. Celeste

MadRabbit -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 3:13:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble ~FR~ True story. It was our second meeting. I didn't trust him. Hell, I barely knew him. He stood behind me with an arm drapped, in a rather lazy fashion, around my shoulders with a butcher knife held to my throat and whispered in my ear, "I could kill you now and bury you in my basement and no one would ever find you." That was a fact. No one knew where I was or what I was doing. I wanted him to do it. Oh god, but I really wanted him to do it. I even spoke the words. "Do it." I didn't know, in that moment, whether he would do it or not but I didn't struggle or try to stop him. What a rush that was.. what a thrill. Absolutely amazing. In that moment, where I faced my death I had never felt so fucking alive. I had never felt that way before and I have never felt that way again and I will never feel that again because with Michael I 'know' he won't ever go there ... but Master A, he may have .. he didn't, but he may have and that uncertainty was intoxicating. I could easily see how it could become addictive. I didn't die, so I can't 'prove' what, apparently needs to happen for proof to be obtained but not because I didn't want it .. but because he didn't do it. I really don't know what else to say. I know, for a fact, that the intoxication of the unknown can be an incredible drug and if you keep going further and further to obtain it's fix, eventually limits and boundaries become meaningless because they will prevent you from finding the unicorn you seek. Celeste You posted another true story in the "Ask a Submissive" section called "Feelings of Worthlessness". After reading that, I find it hard to glorify someone who refuses to say no to anything. I'm sorry if people dont want to hear my viewpoints or think I am being "intolerant", but these points I am making, for the scope of this discussion, need to be included.

BitaTruble -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 3:26:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit You posted another true story in the "Ask a Submissive" section called "Feelings of Worthlessness". After reading that, I find it hard to glorify someone who refuses to say no to anything. I'm sorry if people dont want to hear my viewpoints or think I am being "intolerant", but these points I am making, for the scope of this discussion, need to be included. It's a good thing that I'm not seeking glory then. [8D] MR, you need to understand something. I think your viewpoint is not only valid, but vital to discussions such as these. Most people do have limits, 'should' have limits, should be aware of their limits and should have their limits respected and honored. There are, however, a very small group of people who have none of those things. To point out the obvious, tolerance and acceptence have nothing to do with the subject. It simply is what it is and regardless of whether or not people believe in it, glorify it or are horrified by it, it does exist. By refusing to acknowledge, even it's existance, I believe it can push certain personalities types to try to 'prove' you wrong.. and given what 'proof' you require, I don't think that's a good thing. That's 'my' perspective. Celeste edited to delete unnecessary quoting

came4U -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 3:35:47 PM)
gulps! I didn't read this whole thread yet. I'm laggin'. I dare not even analyse these previous postings. If someone is unable to feel life is worth living are they capable of making a choice of partner if they only choose a partner because without one they are a 'nothing'? To feel unworthy of life itself might draw you to become prey to an actual situation given to death or near death, or to find a savior, of whom without that person you are weak. If your weakness is an undeniable lack of ownership of self-respect in the first place, what then makes submitting any more work than being alone with these thoughts? Aren't you merely just making this lack of lifeskills and unresponsibility fall on the shoulders of another? Is it called naturally-submissive or is it cited as 'I am nothing without a dominant'? If so, what is wrong, what kind of trauma caused the outcome of feeling so little self-worth? Again leading to the same circular thought. How is submission so grandeous and grandstand if is so easily begot? Is someone who puts up less struggle of more value or the one who requires more emotional sophistication before any touching, promises of courtship etc is involved?

MadRabbit -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 3:41:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit You posted another true story in the "Ask a Submissive" section called "Feelings of Worthlessness". After reading that, I find it hard to glorify someone who refuses to say no to anything. I'm sorry if people dont want to hear my viewpoints or think I am being "intolerant", but these points I am making, for the scope of this discussion, need to be included. It's a good thing that I'm not seeking glory then. [8D] MR, you need to understand something. I think your viewpoint is not only valid, but vital to discussions such as these. Most people do have limits, 'should' have limits, should be aware of their limits and should have their limits respected and honored. There are, however, a very small group of people who have none of those things. To point out the obvious, tolerance and acceptence have nothing to do with the subject. It simply is what it is and regardless of whether or not people believe in it, glorify it or are horrified by it, it does exist. By refusing to acknowledge, even it's existance, I believe it can push certain personalities types to try to 'prove' you wrong.. and given what 'proof' you require, I don't think that's a good thing. That's 'my' perspective. Celeste edited to delete unnecessary quoting If someone feels the need to "prove" this thing to me, an anonymous internet entity, then I really think they do have problems. But this is quite the conundrum we have. I dont want anyone to "prove" to me they are a "no limit" slave by death and its not my point, but at the same time, I cant acknowledge the existance of something that I cannot accept on an intellectual and rational level. When the day comes when I have full experience with an individual who has trully convinced me that they are completely wired differently, I will change my opinion (I doubt however that my opinion about somebody who wont enforce boundaries as being a "good" thing will ever change). Until then, viscarious Internet experiences just dont count for me. This is just me being honest. I trust your words around here a lot more then many other peoples, but even now, things just arent adding up for me. Why? Because reviewing the "Worthlessness" thread, you refused to eat a tomatoe that you were told to eat because you were allergic to it.

RRafe -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 3:41:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit You posted another true story in the "Ask a Submissive" section called "Feelings of Worthlessness". After reading that, I find it hard to glorify someone who refuses to say no to anything. I'm sorry if people dont want to hear my viewpoints or think I am being "intolerant", but these points I am making, for the scope of this discussion, need to be included. It's a good thing that I'm not seeking glory then. [8D] MR, you need to understand something. I think your viewpoint is not only valid, but vital to discussions such as these. Most people do have limits, 'should' have limits, should be aware of their limits and should have their limits respected and honored. There are, however, a very small group of people who have none of those things. To point out the obvious, tolerance and acceptence have nothing to do with the subject. It simply is what it is and regardless of whether or not people believe in it, glorify it or are horrified by it, it does exist. By refusing to acknowledge, even it's existance, I believe it can push certain personalities types to try to 'prove' you wrong.. and given what 'proof' you require, I don't think that's a good thing. That's 'my' perspective. Celeste edited to delete unnecessary quoting I've been in that headspace with someone too. Totally scarey and totally thrilling-all at the same time. Nothing was out of bounds. Was it a fantasy-that we really did have NO limits? Sure. Made no difference- in the moment. I was the wolf-she was the meat. How much I took was up to me-and my sense of consequence.

GhitaAmati -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 4:07:40 PM)
I havent read this entire thread, and probably dont plan to this evening, ive got other things to do..but I wanted to say something. I highly respect Daddysprop for her relationship and her posts on this board. While I will flat out state that her way of life is not for me, nor is it for everyone and I think it would be rather silly and dangerous for most, I think it is perfect for her, and for others like her....I dont think anyone here has the right to tell her she's nuts for her relationship... I know Im not a "no limits" slave...nor am I even really a slave. Although I know I truly have no limits when it comes to my Sir, but, thats only after I made the choice myself to belong to him. So, I guess thats a limit? I dunno, not sure if itll make sense, but I had my limits for a relationship when I was single. I found someone I was compatible with, I got to know him to the point I trust him compleatly. I know without a doubt that he would never do anything against my "limits"...so there is nothing he could ask of me or do to me that I would refuse. Even now if he gives me a task that I would at first balk at and try to refuse, I will force myself to not fight because I know he knows best and what do ya know..it all works out all right in the end...

slavegirljoy -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 4:42:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 quote: ORIGINAL: NControlofU Some scoff at the very thought that anyone can really be a no limits slave. Just because you are someone who can't understand, percieve, or believe something exists, doesn't mean that it doesn't. Your reality is only based on what you have experienced and witnessed firtshand. It isn't based on every relationship out there because you don't have personal, real life knowledge of every relationship out there. If you are someone who chooses to believe that anyone who says they are an unconditional slave, with no limits in her service to her master is a liar or delusional or romaticizing reality thats entirely up to you but it doesn't mean that your right. Go spend a weekend with a "no limits" slave and her Master and see for yourself what their lif is like before you write it off as a bunch of internet BS. If you don't believe its possible then you probably will never have it. But that doesnt mean that no one else has it. well said, but unfortunately it won't be understood or accepted by those who need to absorb it most. You are so right, daddysprop, and that's a pity. For those with eyes too blind to see, with ears too deaf to hear, with a mind too closed to believe, i do so pity As for Master David and me, Wwe know what Wwe have is real and that's all that matters. Tonight, Master David called me from work at 6:30, something He usually doesn't do until around 10:45. He called to tell me to go out to the field near Oour home and cut down a piece of bamboo about the width of His finger. i didn't ask "why" and said, "Yes Sir", without hesitation. The only questions i asked were, "What should i use to cut it with?" and "What do You want me to do with it, after i cut it down?" He told me which knife to use and to tear off the leaves and leave it by the door. i don't know what He plans to do with it. It's not my place to ask. But, since Wwe have plenty of nice fishing poles, i doubt He is going to use it for fishing. i can only imagine that He is going to use it on me. But, again, that's not for me to know, until, if and when He decides to let me know. i just did what He told me to do and now i will wait and see what He decides to do with it. He's a very good Master and i have no fear of Him. slave joyOwned property of Master David

slavegirljoy -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 5:00:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati Although I know I truly have no limits when it comes to my Sir, but, thats only after I made the choice myself to belong to him. So, I guess thats a limit? I dunno, not sure if itll make sense, but I had my limits for a relationship when I was single. (i added underlining and boldface, to highlight these words) Just because someone isn't submissive with all people, doesn't mean that they must not be a submissive person. Just because someone isn't a masochist with all people, doesn't mean that they must not be a masochist. Just because someone isn't "no limits" with all people, doesn't meant that they must not be "no limits". It would be very unsafe and unwise to be a submissive, masochist, with no limits with all people. But, to be in a relationship where you are able to be submissive and have no limits with that person, to me, is a beautiful thing, and it's the basis for all that i live for in my relationship with my Master. For me, the feeling of complete powerlessness with my Master is the greatest high i have ever known and, like with most feelings of euphoria, i want it more and more. i rely totally on my Master's good sense and reason to know how far to take me and how to keep me safe. Edited to add: Just because someone willingly and knowingly enters into a relationship where her Master holds all the power over her (including the power of life and death decisions) and she understands and accepts, that within the relationship with her Master, she exerts no power and sets no limits on the relationship or, on her Master or, on how He chooses to use her, doesn't mean that she has no sense of self-worth. Nor does it mean that she has no integrity or, that she isn't in-touch with reality. Just because i willingly lay down so that my Master can wipe His muddy boots on me doesn't mean that i am a "doormat" to the world. For those who hold a negative opinion about a person who would accept and live by "no limits" within her M/s relationship, i say, "Are you basing your opinion on having actually met such a person in real life and having gotten to know her?" If you hold this opinion, without having met such a person, then your opinion is based only on your own preconceived notions and false ideas, which you are certainly entitled to have, no matter how far out-of-touch with the reality of my relationship your opinions happen to be. slave joyOwned property of Master David

PapiNsweet -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 7:06:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit I dont know. Maybe I prefer some slaves with some sense of self worth and sense of self respect. Wow....I'm the wrong one because I want a partner with self esteem. The descent into madness is almost mind boggling. I am tired of listening to people who feel the need to glorify something that doesnt need to be glorified or even entered into the scope of rational or logical thought. As if somehow... Someone who would let their Master drown them while trying to make it as least resistable as possible... Someone who would walk off a cliff to their death based on their Master's whim... Someone who would let their Master tie them to a tree and leave them in the middle of nowhere for a week.... is something that can be considered a "good and healthy thing" in the scope of rational and logical thought. Maybe in Daddysprops fantasy world, but in my pragmatic and realist perspective, I would call these things a serious lack of self worth. I've read a few more examples of "No Limit" relationships and I will gladly recognize them as "No Limit" relationships. I am not saying "No Limits" in the scope of a relationship cant exist according to certain definitions, but still as I read these posts, I find nothing contary to the very simple logic I am holding to. Being in an enviroment where one doesnt NEED to enforce boundaries to protect themselves from harm is not the same thing as a human being who will not enforce boundaries to protect themselves from harm when needed. Fortune and healthy circumstances where certain boundaries dont have to be crossed doesnt equate to a "factual" definition where all boundaries can be crossed or will be allowed to be crossed. I have gladly accepted quite a few definitions of "No Limits", but some people insist on taking this far down the Rabbit Hole into Wonderland. If some people want to make the claim to being super slaves who will not enforce ANY boundaries when push comes to shove, they can go right ahead. I'll beleive it when I see some obituaries. I'm sure some people at the eulogy will cry and say "Wow, its so romantic. This slave's devotion was so strong that she self destructed simply for the sheer whim of her Master." I, unfortanely, will be the guy in the background going "What a nut with no sense of self worth and a pointless waste of human life." But until that day comes, dont expect me to turn off my brain and beleive that the Internet manifestos of a 19 year old and a 26 year old are actual proof of the existence of the mythical "No Limits" slave with absolutely no limtis and who will not enforce any boundary in any circumstance because of their hardcore super slave devotion. A whole score of book writers and people with tons of experience with the public scene have all made to claim to never ever meeting anyone quite like you, but yet...amazingly....here you are on Collarme.com for all to see. Want respect? Write something worth respecting. MadRabbit, all i write or could ever write is my truth. the fact that you refuse to accept it as truth, and/or refuse to respect or attempt to understand someone who has such a truth, is not my problem. i don't feel any animosity or anger towards you, but your comments do make me feel somewhat disheartened...simply because you seem to be so determined to create and maintain division among those of different beliefs within the lifestyle, as opposed to fostering a sense of unity and community. i find nothing "less than" or wrong about the way you choose to live the lifestyle, tho it wouldn't work for me personally....why is it so unthinkable for you to at least attempt to extend that same tolerance and acceptance for the way i, Bita, BeingChewsie, annabelle or others choose to live? despite what you seem to think, i don't consider myself to be some "uber, hardcore, super slave"...i see myself as just a slave, one who has come a long way but has quite a bit of growing to do yet, and forever striving to be the best submissive and slave to my Master that i can possibly be. i've stumbled and fallen along the way more than a few times, and there are sure to be many more slip-ups in my future. but all i can do, and all my Master demands of me, is just to do my best. you have made it perfectly clear numerous times now, on this thread and others, that you view slaves like myself to be worthless, a waste of humanity, looney tunes, self-loathing, and on and on. of course you are entitled to your opinion, but that you are so easily able to say such vicious and cruel things about those who have done you no harm, simply because you disagree with their way of life, is quite disturbing to me. perhaps it's the wall of the internet that allows for such a cold heart. as to all of the many writers of books and people in the "scene" who claim to have never met slaves who impose no limits on their Owners, one should remember the fact that many people see only what they wish to see, and some will see but still refuse to believe or accept, because it is so foreign and distasteful to all they know and value. and then there is also the fact that most people tend to avoid being where they are not wanted, accepted or respected. -prop

MadRabbit -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 7:19:00 PM)
Nice grandstanding.

MadRabbit -> RE: No limits - and what it really means (10/17/2007 7:27:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy quote: ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati Although I know I truly have no limits when it comes to my Sir, but, thats only after I made the choice myself to belong to him. So, I guess thats a limit? I dunno, not sure if itll make sense, but I had my limits for a relationship when I was single. (i added underlining and boldface, to highlight these words) Just because someone isn't submissive with all people, doesn't mean that they must not be a submissive person. Just because someone isn't a masochist with all people, doesn't mean that they must not be a masochist. Just because someone isn't "no limits" with all people, doesn't meant that they must not be "no limits". It would be very unsafe and unwise to be a submissive, masochist, with no limits with all people. But, to be in a relationship where you are able to be submissive and have no limits with that person, to me, is a beautiful thing, and it's the basis for all that i live for in my relationship with my Master. For me, the feeling of complete powerlessness with my Master is the greatest high i have ever known and, like with most feelings of euphoria, i want it more and more. i rely totally on my Master's good sense and reason to know how far to take me and how to keep me safe. Edited to add: Just because someone willingly and knowingly enters into a relationship where her Master holds all the power over her (including the power of life and death decisions) and she understands and accepts, that within the relationship with her Master, she exerts no power and sets no limits on the relationship or, on her Master or, on how He chooses to use her, doesn't mean that she has no sense of self-worth. Nor does it mean that she has no integrity or, that she isn't in-touch with reality. Just because i willingly lay down so that my Master can wipe His muddy boots on me doesn't mean that i am a "doormat" to the world. For those who hold a negative opinion about a person who would accept and live by "no limits" within her M/s relationship, i say, "Are you basing your opinion on having actually met such a person in real life and having gotten to know her?" If you hold this opinion, without having met such a person, then your opinion is based only on your own preconceived notions and false ideas, which you are certainly entitled to have, no matter how far out-of-touch with the reality of my relationship your opinions happen to be. slave joyOwned property of Master David Since I am going to assume that this is directed to me, I would suggest you actually read what I am writing.

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