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RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/18/2007 9:23:30 PM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		Michael,
hmmm....Guess i've graduated then....heh.
Now.....where's my gift? he he
 
mrDiscipline,
Once again you've missed the forest for the trees.  It's amazing to me that the only thing You can focus on is the fact that in a moment of fear, anxiety, and doubt, i turned to a friend for some moral support.  However, i choose to recognize the fact that i was actually capable of being honest with Him, choose to share with Him, and for the most part have been transparent with Him.........
i suppose, in essence, it's all a matter of perspective...
Kali

_____________________________

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~~Sweedish Proverb


(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/18/2007 9:32:17 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		Hey, you see only what you wanted to out of my post. Why can't I do the same to yours? A win for you, a win for me and we're all happy. Why don't you want to be happy?

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/18/2007 9:38:57 PM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

Hey, you see only what you wanted to out of my post. Why can't I do the same to yours? A win for you, a win for me and we're all happy. Why don't you want to be happy?


 hmmm...i don't know...Maybe because i'm more than happy.....Maybe because for the first time in my life i'm nearly content. And this contentment wont be stolen away or given away....
Good luck to You,
Kali

_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb


(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/18/2007 9:59:47 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		As long as the people who want a "protector" are willing to forego the idea that "sub is a strong smart person who can handle their own life just fine" and is fine with knowing they can no longer be part of the pool of candidates people talk about when they say they WANT someone "strong smart and who can handle their own life just fine," I don't see a problem with it.

It really just sort of tosses out the notion that subs are strong independent people and shoves them all back into the "helpless dysfunctional adult who can't handle swimming in the adult pool."

I really should post this thread everytime someone wants to start a litany about how "subs are all really strong smart functional adults who should be praised."

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/19/2007 1:51:24 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		Tis kind of a retread of the mentor threads and that has grown a beard it has been discussed so much. We could print the threads and make Saturnalia Trees out of them for the Holidays if we fold the pages correctly. Those of us who pitch the injustices of the protector system have piquant views because of exploitations we have witnessed. Bellwethers not only lead sheep to the fold; they also lead them to the slaughter house.

Here is my view since I’m a graduate of the Lucy van Pelt School of Internet Psychology. Despite my skepticism we have copious, additional living, breathing (or at least typing) proof in these very forums that the followers of this practice SOMETIMES end up in situations that are not that bad. Often it is with the protector, ha, but that is another story.

For me discussing protectorship is like discussing religion along the lines of a clinical fascination. You see it, you verify people really do think that way, but you simply cannot grasp the mindset that would do it.  

What happens is that our threads seem to always fall back on a few principles. One of the main ones is definition/labeling and the way we define something. So in the spirit of Wittgenstein, let me say that logic problems arise from different opinions on language.

When we start to use labels we think our behavior must fit on that sticky thing on the grocery shelf that names the can “pinto beans.” When someone says she had a friend find her a Dom, that’s fine as long as she doesn’t think she has been “protected,mentored” and has to subscribe to a particular set of rules with her protector. If someone has a friend she talks with, ditto.

When you get into protocol behavior with that protector who masquerades as an omniscient figure you are altering your common sense judgment. Keep the mindset that you are talking with a friend and not a label with expectations of your behavior and you will end up happy as a character in a 1940’s romantic movie.


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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/19/2007 2:59:35 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

It really just sort of tosses out the notion that subs are strong independent people and shoves them all back into the "helpless dysfunctional adult who can't handle swimming in the adult pool."


And it makes subs who are self-reliant and responsible left shaking their heads.


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/19/2007 3:07:29 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

Hey, you see only what you wanted to out of my post. Why can't I do the same to yours? A win for you, a win for me and we're all happy. Why don't you want to be happy?


 hmmm...i don't know...Maybe because i'm more than happy.....Maybe because for the first time in my life i'm nearly content. And this contentment wont be stolen away or given away....
Good luck to You,
Kali


You don't need MrD or anyone else here to accept or not accept your life Kali.  You were human, we all are.  You made a mistake, you learned and grew from it, there's nothing better you can do with mistakes than that.  Good luck to you.
l

(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/19/2007 5:06:17 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

As long as the people who want a "protector" are willing to forego the idea that "sub is a strong smart person who can handle their own life just fine" and is fine with knowing they can no longer be part of the pool of candidates people talk about when they say they WANT someone "strong smart and who can handle their own life just fine," I don't see a problem with it.


I've started to see the whole mentor/protector thing as part of the fairy tale role play kink some folks call "the lifestyle". You know the type -- they're also the same ones who yap about how "this lifestyle is about honor blah blah blah" as if by declaring themselves kinky somehow magically transforms them into superhumans who are no longer subject to the flaws and frailties of "the vanillas". Male doms are knights-in-shining armor, and fem subs are the damsels in distress who need their protection and guiding wisdom even if they ain't fucking. If the medeival fairy tale sounds too ridiculous, then think Gone With The Wind to bring it more up to date.

My only beef with it is that they've all conned themselves into calling it a lifestyle when it is in essence just roleplaying, but I suppose it is harmless good fun for them and it's all good since they amuse me too. I'm sure there are also those who ARE stupid and need protection, and we can find their vanilla counterparts looking for the ONE in their fantasies on match.com.


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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/19/2007 5:51:22 AM   
SoulPiercer


Posts: 374
Joined: 5/27/2007
Status: offline 		At the risk of angering Ye Olde Guild of Protectorers, I always likened this practice to that of the adventurous individuals who marry deathrow inmates. They get the joy of telling the world they're married, someone wants them, (so what if that someone butchered their own family in their sleep), but they don't have to pick up his socks.

Having a "protector", at least to me, means she is protected from actually participating in real life, with hurts and scrapes along the way, just like the rest of us.

_____________________________

Do you have any idea how many bones you have left for me to break? - Batman

(in reply to happypervert)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/19/2007 5:57:27 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert
I've started to see the whole mentor/protector thing as part of the fairy tale role play kink some folks call "the lifestyle". You know the type -- they're also the same ones who yap about how "this lifestyle is about honor blah blah blah" as if by declaring themselves kinky somehow magically transforms them into superhumans who are no longer subject to the flaws and frailties of "the vanillas".


good to know your lifestyle isn't about "honor blah blah blah"....but some of us do live with honor and integrity...and fault ourselves when that fails because we are human...


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to happypervert)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/19/2007 8:21:59 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		LIFE should be about honour and integrity, not this particular lifestyle.




_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/19/2007 8:23:18 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		"should" and "is" are two entirely different things....

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/19/2007 8:39:14 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		As a founding member of "The Protectors" a not for profit group based out of Minneapolis....Our goal as stated in our charter is "To protect those women without the brain power to protect themselves"...Nothing gives me more joy then to take a sub under my wing, gain her trust and then betray that trust to get in some fine ass-fucking and cock smoking activities.

"But, Domiguy...You are supposed to be my protector."  ....I stare down at her....as she kneels before me..."Look you ignorant, stupid fuck....This is really for the best....Now start sucking...You small brained, incapable of making a sound decision, good for nothing, cunt."

< Message edited by domiguy -- 10/19/2007 9:01:54 AM >

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RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/19/2007 8:59:18 AM   
neph


Posts: 32
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline 		Protectors are great.  They're an early warning that this is almost certainly not a sub that I want to talk to.

Having friends is great.  Running things by your friends is even better.  Having a friend who will act as a safe call is wonderful.  Calling them a Protector and telling the world about it?  Not so great.

To me, it just screams of insecurity and codependence, which aren't traits I look for in a partner. 

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/19/2007 9:02:53 AM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		keep in mind it is not your friends relationship it is yours. that is where most people get into big trouble. we do not marry our friends friends. We marry one person not a clan lol

(in reply to neph)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/19/2007 2:21:00 PM   
DarkDaddyZ


Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

keep in mind it is not your friends relationship it is yours. that is where most people get into big trouble. we do not marry our friends friends. We marry one person not a clan lol

That sounds like a whole new thread!

_____________________________

"Flirting is part of the job description." DJ Jesus (Lucy Daughter Of The Devil)

Vanilla Official Music Page http://www.myspace.com/djzulu

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/19/2007 7:57:50 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

quote:

As long as the people who want a "protector" are willing to forego the idea that "sub is a strong smart person who can handle their own life just fine" and is fine with knowing they can no longer be part of the pool of candidates people talk about when they say they WANT someone "strong smart and who can handle their own life just fine," I don't see a problem with it.


I've started to see the whole mentor/protector thing as part of the fairy tale role play kink some folks call "the lifestyle". You know the type -- they're also the same ones who yap about how "this lifestyle is about honor blah blah blah" as if by declaring themselves kinky somehow magically transforms them into superhumans who are no longer subject to the flaws and frailties of "the vanillas". Male doms are knights-in-shining armor, and fem subs are the damsels in distress who need their protection and guiding wisdom even if they ain't fucking. If the medeival fairy tale sounds too ridiculous, then think Gone With The Wind to bring it more up to date.

My only beef with it is that they've all conned themselves into calling it a lifestyle when it is in essence just roleplaying, but I suppose it is harmless good fun for them and it's all good since they amuse me too. I'm sure there are also those who ARE stupid and need protection, and we can find their vanilla counterparts looking for the ONE in their fantasies on match.com.



Clearly we have met some of the same people.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to happypervert)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/20/2007 2:38:54 AM   
desires4only1


Posts: 1
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline 		Hello DarkDaddyZ;  Interesting question that you've asked.  I'm also enjoying hearing the responses.  In my mind and r/t experience my Mentor, Sir C acted as my protector at a bdsm formal dinner once.  As a single submissive, I was not under the house Master's rules but his.  If any wished to approach for play purposes then they would go through Sir C.  I would think that anything in the way of online protection, would suggest that the one in question doesn't feel they have the experience to clearly make their own desicions and wish to have their journey monitored in a sense, by one they think has more knowledge and experience then they.  Many online are just that, online and will never be anything but fantacy, IMO.

puddles 

(in reply to DarkDaddyZ)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/20/2007 3:48:33 AM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: desires4only1

Hello DarkDaddyZ;  Interesting question that you've asked.  I'm also enjoying hearing the responses.  In my mind and r/t experience my Mentor, Sir C acted as my protector at a bdsm formal dinner once.  As a single submissive, I was not under the house Master's rules but his.  If any wished to approach for play purposes then they would go through Sir C.  I would think that anything in the way of online protection, would suggest that the one in question doesn't feel they have the experience to clearly make their own desicions and wish to have their journey monitored in a sense, by one they think has more knowledge and experience then they.  Many online are just that, online and will never be anything but fantacy, IMO.

puddles 


The part of your post that I have highlighted is always the thing I have an issue with when people talk about Mentors or protectors. If someone is not experienced enough to be able to make their own choices and decisions about possible Doms / Masters then how are they experienced enough to make the choice of who to have as a protector.

To my mind the whole protector thing perpetuates the myth that subs are stupid with no life experience and need someone to protect them.

(in reply to desires4only1)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Clueless about Protectors - 10/20/2007 4:07:57 AM   
purepleasure


Posts: 6941
Joined: 4/9/2004
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline 		In all the times that I see a post when a submissive - new or not - is under "protection", I can't help but wonder who or what she needs protecting from.  If it's from others online, they should turn the friggin' computer off, because they obviously can't handle being on a website of an ADULT nature, and deal with adult issues.  If he or she needs protection from themself because they are too irresponsible to handle their lives, they still need to turn the computer off and get professional help.

Otherwise, if they're here for roleplay... go, have fun, but don't include others in your lilttle cyberdrama.


(in reply to susie)
Profile   Post #: 120
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