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Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/21/2007 11:43:06 PM   
Sunao


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By God why am I putting this up I know that I"m only going to make people mad but the freedom of speech allows me to do just that. O.K. reason I'm putting this up is because earlier today I was having an argument with my friend about who deserves reparations. I believe Jews deserve it because of the slavery they endured back in the days that the Egyptian empire was building its pyramids as well as the holocaust and a few inquisitions in the middle ages. My friend says blacks because of how whites kidnapped them from Africa and forced them into hard labor I personally see this as divine justice though. Please hear me out. White Americans came from the Europeans and some Europeans are probably of Jewish decent because of migration patterns. Alot of blacks are probably of Egyptian decent because 2000 years ago Egypt was an expanding empire and controlled a good portion of northern Africa. So this thread is either that A. I'm a closet racist B. I'm really getting tired of blacks asking for reparations but if reparation are ever enacted then give them to the activists that fought against our government for complete freedom.  C. I want to hear how the public reacts to my crack pot theory as I wait for a video to load on Divx.

*Dumps Gasoline on hirself and waits for the mob with torches to set hir a flame.*
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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/21/2007 11:57:29 PM   
Shawn1066


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Nobody deserves reperations.  Everybody negatively impacted by slavery in the US are long dead.  Sure, you could make the argument that we still feel the after effects till this very day...and I'd be tempted to agree.

But slavery negatively impacted EVERYBODY involved.  It turned people into slaves, made men into monsters, and was a big factor in the bloodiest wars in American History.  People have died over that issue regardless of skin color.  We all certainly don't need reparations.  One shouldn't forget history, but one shouldn't be bound by it either.


Just my opinion.

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 12:44:27 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunao
I"m only going to make people mad but the freedom of speech allows me to do just that.


Only in the designated free speech zone!


well i think my race deserves reparations because we were slaves in 3500 BC!


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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 1:05:34 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunao

By God why am I putting this up I know that I"m only going to make people mad but the freedom of speech allows me to do just that. O.K. reason I'm putting this up is because earlier today I was having an argument with my friend about who deserves reparations. I believe Jews deserve it because of the slavery they endured back in the days that the Egyptian empire was building its pyramids as well as the holocaust and a few inquisitions in the middle ages. My friend says blacks because of how whites kidnapped them from Africa and forced them into hard labor I personally see this as divine justice though. Please hear me out. White Americans came from the Europeans and some Europeans are probably of Jewish decent because of migration patterns. Alot of blacks are probably of Egyptian decent because 2000 years ago Egypt was an expanding empire and controlled a good portion of northern Africa. So this thread is either that A. I'm a closet racist B. I'm really getting tired of blacks asking for reparations but if reparation are ever enacted then give them to the activists that fought against our government for complete freedom.  C. I want to hear how the public reacts to my crack pot theory as I wait for a video to load on Divx.

*Dumps Gasoline on hirself and waits for the mob with torches to set hir a flame.*



Well if we are going back to biblical times I think Jewish people need to make a few apologies first, then the Germans can apologize to them.

Observe what I command you this day. Behold, I am driving out from before you the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite. Take heed to yourself, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land where you are going, lest it be a snare in your midst. But you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images (For you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.)
Exodus, Chapter 34, verses 11-14

You will chase your enemies, and they shall fall by the sword before you. Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight; your enemies shall fall by the sword before you. For I will look on you favorably and make you fruitful, multiply you and confirm My covenant with you. You shall eat the old harvest, and clear out the old because of the new.
Leviticus, Chapter 26, verses 7-9

As for black Egyptians, it depends of what your definition of black is. There were Nubian pharoahs who were more or less dub-Saharan black but most pharoahs weren't but would probably be similar to middle east people now. There has been a Jewish line of pharoahs, a Persian line and then the Ptolemy line from Macedonia of which Cleopatra was one. So despite some ignorant PC American professor claiming Cleopatra was black for political purposes, she wasn't. Three of her grand parents were white Macedonians, the other grandparent isn't known. However, there isn't that much evidence apart from the bible that the Jewish people were slaves in Egypt. The workforce of the pyramids were Egyptoian and were a salaried labour, whole towns of these workers have been dug up by archeologists. I'm not saying the bible is wrong in everything but there is no evidence as yet that fits the biblical mythical tales.

As for reparations in general, that is going to be difficult. You can't pay the victims as they are dead. Though my guess is that ongoing discrimination is keeping the debate alive.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 10/22/2007 1:07:26 AM >


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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 1:24:01 AM   
Sunao


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O.K so neither of us wins the argument. Damn. well thank you for all your input. Very informative and not such the harsh backlash I was expecting. Can I see your (meatcleaver) references for the pharaoh linage though?


< Message edited by Sunao -- 10/22/2007 1:27:29 AM >

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 1:51:58 AM   
LadyEllen


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Honestly Sunao - Cleopatra was a Macedonian according to everything I ever read. Alexander the Great conquered the largest Empire known, from the Balkans all the way to Afghanistan, including the then most powerful Empire on earth, the Persians (which is where Iran is now, mainly). All those blue eyed, light skin Arabs etc are genetic remnants of his army by my theory.

If we're talking reparations, then Denmark, Norway and Sweden need to cough up quickly for all the Viking raiding of England; where do I apply for my ten gold pieces please?

E

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 2:06:06 AM   
Level


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No one gets reperations. Piss on that.

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 2:19:42 AM   
HaveRopeWillBind


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Whenever I hear talk of reparations there always seems to be a couple of things that are left out of the argument.

The first being that slavery is an African invention. There was slavery in Africa 4000 years before slave traders began to bring them to the Americas.

Secondly, despite the alleged "capture" of Kunta Kinte by slave traders in Alex Haley's "Roots" the vast majority of the slaves that were brought to the colonies were in fact the victims of inter-tribal raids and wars in Africa where the losers were enslaved by the winning tribe then subsequently sold to European slave traders.

So if reparations are to be paid by anyone lets have all those incredibly wealthy African nations pay them.

In America we already did the reparations bit after the Civil War. Every former slave was offered a mule and 40 acres. It's true that not all of the freed slaves actually got their animal and land, but that's only because they never went and asked for it.  All they had to do was show up and ask and the Reconstructionists made good on the offer. Anyone complaining today that their ancestors never got their reparations shouldn't blame the government but rather blame that ancestor. The deal wasn't for every generation born later, only for the persons who had actually been slaves.

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 2:19:44 AM   
Sunao


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen



If we're talking reparations, then Denmark, Norway and Sweden need to cough up quickly for all the Viking raiding of England; where do I apply for my ten gold pieces please?

E


Hows an apology for you? I have viking running through my viens *nervous laugh* I on the behalf of my lineage say I'm sorry

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 2:30:40 AM   
LadyEllen


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me too Sunao - undoubtedly. Well, all's OK now. The Anglian bit paid off the Welsh bit, got paid in turn by the Danish bit and peace is restored. However I'm ten quid down due to tax...

E

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 5:52:53 AM   
batshalom


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Reparations: The act of throwing money at something so that it will go away (it won't - it will only make things worse by creating mass polarization).

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 6:31:32 AM   
Alumbrado


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Reparations?

As in all  Asian, Hispanic, Native American, Caucasian, and other non-African descendants making minimum wage on up should be required to pay money to Michael Jackson, OJ, Revs Al and Jesse, Oprah, and so forth?


Riiiiiight...

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 6:45:45 AM   
Rushemery


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I dont feel we own anyone anything, chit happens get over it, its the natural state of things that nations take over nations and has been this way forever, we fight against it now and do our best to make everyone equal. I think thats all anyone deserves, thousands of people have died and given their lives to make everyone equal, I think thats enough anyone should ask for, I feel its a pretty greedy person to ask for more than someone life 

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 6:52:06 AM   
mnottertail


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I deserve reparations because as a heathen, my people were decimated by the Christians in and around the 8th thru 10th centuries.

Besides which, having extra bucks around comes in pretty fuckin' handy.

Hey!!!! We have all been oppressed....take a fuckin' pill.

Ron

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 6:54:36 AM   
Rushemery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail



Hey!!!! We have all been oppressed....take a fuckin' pill.

Ron




lol

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 7:18:57 AM   
hisannabelle


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greetings sunao,

i tend to stay out of reparations discussions because i don't have a strong opinion either way. however, i do think it's disheartening that the american government has never made a formal apology to african-americans for the government-sanctioned and perpetuated institution of slavery. we made a formal apology to japanese-americans for interning them during wwii...and yet we cannot make a formal apology to african-americans. it doesn't make any sense to me.

respectfully,
annabelle.


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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 7:38:38 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind

Whenever I hear talk of reparations there always seems to be a couple of things that are left out of the argument.

The first being that slavery is an African invention. There was slavery in Africa 4000 years before slave traders began to bring them to the Americas.
Some sort of validation for this statement might give it a bit more meaning.
You might also want to point out that slavery in the U.S. was dramatically different than slavery in ancient times.  Slavery was not always for life and when it was it did not make a slaves children slaves.  Slaves were not bred to create a permanent slave class.  So you are being more than a bit disingenuous when you make the above statement.


Secondly, despite the alleged "capture" of Kunta Kinte by slave traders in Alex Haley's "Roots" the vast majority of the slaves that were brought to the colonies were in fact the victims of inter-tribal raids and wars in Africa where the losers were enslaved by the winning tribe then subsequently sold to European slave traders.
This may be convenient for your conscience but it does not square with reality.
The reality is that without the presence of a market for an unlimited number of slaves there would be no supply.

So if reparations are to be paid by anyone lets have all those incredibly wealthy African nations pay them.
Many of those incredibly wealthy African nations have been bleed dry by white people.

In America we already did the reparations bit after the Civil War. Every former slave was offered a mule and 40 acres. It's true that not all of the freed slaves actually got their animal and land, but that's only because they never went and asked for it.  All they had to do was show up and ask and the Reconstructionists made good on the offer. Anyone complaining today that their ancestors never got their reparations shouldn't blame the government but rather blame that ancestor. The deal wasn't for every generation born later, only for the persons who had actually been slaves.
I would suggest that your information on "Forty acres and a mule" is somewhat flawed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40_acres_and_a_mule
You might also consider that the primary source of revenue for the federal government prior to the civil war was paid for by export duties on products produced by slavery.  What this means is that for over a hundred years before we became a nation we were deriving the benefits of slave labor to build our infrastructure. Then for another 85 years we as a nation continued to reap that benefit.  After the civil war we continued to reap the benefits of slavery by relegating non whites to second class citizenship. 
Your understanding of the history of my country seems to have a lot of convenient gaps in it.


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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 8:28:50 AM   
AquaticSub


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~Fast Reply~

My opinion? You get reperation if you actually lived through it. Not your Grandmother, not your Great-Grandmother or anything else. Otherwise, I want reperations from the English damn it. And Norway too. Those nasty Vikings, coming to the country of my forefathers and mothers, raping and pillaging!

Everyone's people have been oppressed at one time or another.

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 8:30:17 AM   
batshalom


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Hey!!!! We have all been oppressed....take a fuckin' pill.


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh ok! (Got one??)

Wait. I have a question. What about those of us who self-oppress?

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RE: Reperations who deserves it more? - 10/22/2007 8:31:07 AM   
AquaticSub


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Pay yourself, clearly!

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