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 What i am suggesting is that errors have been made, but only by acknowledging that and learning from it can errors be minimised.

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

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 What i am suggesting is that errors have been made, but only by acknowledging that and learning from it can errors be minimised.

Not true, you can do what Turkey does about their massacre of Albanians, what Japan does about its WWII atttrocities, or you can do what Republican's do, pretend it never happened.

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Philosophy,

I know you have your head screwed on straight.

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

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 What i am suggesting is that errors have been made, but only by acknowledging that and learning from it can errors be minimised.

Not true, you can do what Turkey does about their massacre of Albanians, what Japan does about its WWII atttrocities, or you can do what Republican's do, pretend it never happened.

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

Because it's not an empire.

LOL You have more troops in more countries than the British did at the height of their empire. 

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

Well, if YOU look at it, those European Empires were constantly expanding, or were trying to.  We don't.  They forced their influence on others, we do not.  We don't force others to drink Starbucks or to speak English.  Yes, we are rich, powerful, and influential, and have a tendancy to forget the rest of the world exists.  But an empire?  Nope.  Are you American?

Let me repeat. You have more troops in more countries than the British did at the height of their empire.

Yes you do force American products on other countries, not for the most part at a barrel of a gun but then neither did the British but like all empires power and money has ways of making people cooperate.

But just look at all your post war military interventions, now that is imperial behaviour. You might think it isn't because you believe all the propaganda crap on Fox TV but the rest of the world knows an empire when it sees one.

In fact you have more than twice as many troops in Iraq now than the British did in 350 years in India. I guess Britain wasn't an empire after all. People were just so pleased to cooperate with us.

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Pink,

I can understand why you rant about Castro and Chavez but why do you keep ranting about Che?

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ORIGINAL: philosophy
...i don't understand your point here. Are you saying that scholars are automatically not to be trusted?

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.....would it also be bias to state that the US has never engaged in state terrorism?

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 Because i was looking for a link that talked about that subject, it seemed fair to me to google around that form of words.

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You'll notice that in the wiki article there was a section dedicated to a rebuttal of that thesis. i'm not sure a free society is one where armed terrorists attack rural health clinics.

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i'm afraid you are trying to defend the indefensible when it comes to Nicaragua.

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It was an error.......now, i'm not suggesting that everything the US does is an error, but neither am i suggesting that the US is incapable of error......both are absolute statements and therefore, almost by definition, wrong. What i am suggesting is that errors have been made, but only by acknowledging that and learning from it can errors be minimised.

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ORIGINAL: philosophy

......i am deeply saddened by your view on scholars. Is it possible that they actually have no axe to grind and simply find more to criticise in American history than those who haven't studied history?

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You seem to excuse the killing of civilians by US funded forces with the simple idea that 'they were fighting communism'.

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If all that is needed to shoot an unarmed civilian is an avowed intent to combat a social ideology that most people see as ultimately self defeating then how is that occupying any form of moral high ground? Surely, it's just terrorism.

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

Defeating communism shouldn't require killing innocents or sick patients in a clinic.  That's why I wanted more info. Mistakes are made in wars.  Plus, I don't like that this terrorist label is bandied about so readily.  Like calling the US terrorists... makes me think it's being used to easily here too.

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ORIGINAL: philosophy

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

Defeating communism shouldn't require killing innocents or sick patients in a clinic.  That's why I wanted more info. Mistakes are made in wars.  Plus, I don't like that this terrorist label is bandied about so readily.  Like calling the US terrorists... makes me think it's being used to easily here too.

....i'd argue that defeating any ideology doesn't need these things. In this, i'd hope we agree. Please do some more research on Nicaragua. Your own Congress forbade the CIA from involvement, yet they broke their own rules in  order to do so.

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Furthermore, that involvement had scant regard for the lives of civilians. It wasn't a declared war, so US involvement in such things is basically terrorism.

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However, to be scrupuously fair, most Americans at the time knew nothing about what was happening......Reagan famously couldn't recall details of his involvement (although that may have been the Alzheimers, which is sad)......

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when America does good things, (and i absolutely don't deny that) it is good at publicising the fact.

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When it does sameful things, there is a tendency to lose that part of the history books.

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Most cultures do the same, but this is now the age of the internet......in a sense we now have no excuse for not knowing the things our countries have done that are wrong....flat wrong. As citizens in democracies we must know these  things and vote accordingly.

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

Because it's not an empire.

LOL You have more troops in more countries than the British did at the height of their empire. 

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

Well, if YOU look at it, those European Empires were constantly expanding, or were trying to.  We don't.  They forced their influence on others, we do not.  We don't force others to drink Starbucks or to speak English.  Yes, we are rich, powerful, and influential, and have a tendancy to forget the rest of the world exists.  But an empire?  Nope.  Are you American?

Let me repeat. You have more troops in more countries than the British did at the height of their empire.

Yes you do force American products on other countries, not for the most part at a barrel of a gun but then neither did the British but like all empires power and money has ways of making people cooperate.

But just look at all your post war military interventions, now that is imperial behaviour. You might think it isn't because you believe all the propaganda crap on Fox TV but the rest of the world knows an empire when it sees one.

In fact you have more than twice as many troops in Iraq now than the British did in 350 years in India. I guess Britain wasn't an empire after all. People were just so pleased to cooperate with us.

You didn't answer my question.  Are you an American?

We also have a lot more people in our country, in the whole world than when England was an empire.  So you really can't compare that. If people don't want to buy American products they don't have to.  They don't have to visit Yellowstone.  They don't have to come to Disney World, or watch ER.  If we are the best at something and people realize that and want the product, is it a virtue to say "no?"  And why should we deny the rest of the world the riches and comfort we enjoy??

We are not an Empire.  I repeat to you- we don't keep the land we free, we don't enslave the natives, or make them second class citizens.  We in turn arm them, teach them what we know and stay until they've got a secure nation.  Do I think we ought to be Nation building?  That's a separate question.  But an empire, we're not.

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Don't mistake being liked for your money as the same as being liked for who you are. Many take the money from you because they know they can't get rid of you and might as well get something out of the deal. This is nothing new, it happens in every empire. No matter, every empire had people like you who genuinely thought they weren't an empire but were spread around the globe because they were invited and liked.

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Our Congress isn't always right.

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

Our Congress isn't always right.  And just because they were told not to interfere, doesn't mean that interference was right OR wrong. 

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

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Our Congress isn't always right.

Congress MAKES THE LAW.

By definition, they are always correct.

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

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Our Congress isn't always right.

Congress MAKES THE LAW.

By definition, they are always correct.

Actually, the judicial interprets the law,

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Do you remember after 9/11 many Americans asked the question 'why does everyone hate us?'. You are one that obviously never asked the question never mind try to answer it. The answer is simple. The US is an empire.

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An old British politician said the legacy of the British empire was spreading soccer around the world and the trerm 'Fuck off!'. Well the Americans can't leave 'Fuck off!' as a legacy but they can leave Micky Mouse and Coca Cola.

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Don't mistake being liked for your money as the same as being liked for who you are.

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 Many take the money from you because they know they can't get rid of you and might as well get something out of the deal. This is nothing new, it happens in every empire. No matter, every empire had people like you who genuinely thought they weren't an empire but were spread around the globe because they were invited and liked.

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Oh And Britain didn't have to occupy land either to get what it wanted. You just need military power, money and the ability to divide and rule.

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ORIGINAL: philosophy

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

Our Congress isn't always right.  And just because they were told not to interfere, doesn't mean that interference was right OR wrong. 

...surely it does. Because, if the USA is a law based nation then what Congress orders the CIA to do or not so is basically law.

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The interference before Congress ruled on it is debateable (interfering in other countries covertly), but afterwards? Clearly it broke your own laws.

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You can't have it both ways......if illegal immigrants should obey the law of the land, then so should the security forces of that land. The alternative is the idea that parts of the establishment are above the law. This is clearly unacceptable in a civilised country.