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This is altogether another discussion. I hope you understand what I mean when I say that. Breaking a speeding law for example is no moral wrong, IMO, but it's still breaking the law. So the next argument is, is breaking the law ever acceptable?? That is what we are discussing.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

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This is altogether another discussion. I hope you understand what I mean when I say that. Breaking a speeding law for example is no moral wrong, IMO, but it's still breaking the law. So the next argument is, is breaking the law ever acceptable?? That is what we are discussing.

Sure, as long as you don't whine about being caught, and doing the time.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Sure, so let's put the CIA Agents on trial, and see what the Jury says, shouldn't we?

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Likewise, if you think Bush was justified in committing Criminal Fraud in the run up to Iraq, let's give it to a Special Prosecutor to present to a Grand Jury.

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

Breaking a speeding law for example is no moral wrong,  IMO, but it's still breaking the law.  So the next argument is, is breaking the law ever acceptable??  That is what we are discussing. 

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It's not that the CIA is ever "above" the law. (And you can leave out the rhetoric, I think you're above that.)   But in that instance, they felt that following that law was a greater wrong than to break it.  Were they right or is that ever the case is another question.

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Sure, so let's put the CIA Agents on trial, and see what the Jury says, shouldn't we?

Umm... put them on trial for what exactly?

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Likewise, if you think Bush was justified in committing Criminal Fraud in the run up to Iraq, let's give it to a Special Prosecutor to present to a Grand Jury.

Back to this again? He made a judgement in the course of his job, and for that he has qualified immunity. You all can try to impeach him, but he cannot be tried. And there was no fraud.

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ORIGINAL: luckydog1

The ICJ can rule anything it likes, who the hell cares.

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ORIGINAL: philosophy

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

Breaking a speeding law for example is no moral wrong,  IMO, but it's still breaking the law.  So the next argument is, is breaking the law ever acceptable??  That is what we are discussing. 

...i don't know the figures for the USA, but in the UK speeding kills more people (including innocent pedestrians) than there are incidents of murder.

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So, in the UK at least, i'd argue that speeding is morally wrong. i think Fargle does have a point, in the sense that individuals do decide whether or not to obey a law....and that, if caught, they have to justify it. They don't get to argue about the law, they have to argue a greater good being served.....and that isn't always possible.

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

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ORIGINAL: philosophy

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

Breaking a speeding law for example is no moral wrong, IMO, but it's still breaking the law. So the next argument is, is breaking the law ever acceptable?? That is what we are discussing.

...i don't know the figures for the USA, but in the UK speeding kills more people (including innocent pedestrians) than there are incidents of murder.

Speeding doesn't kill, stopping suddenly does!

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So, in the UK at least, i'd argue that speeding is morally wrong. i think Fargle does have a point, in the sense that individuals do decide whether or not to obey a law....and that, if caught, they have to justify it. They don't get to argue about the law, they have to argue a greater good being served.....and that isn't always possible.

And some are exempt from certain laws. Even in states where it is illegal to own handguns, the police still do. Are they breaking the law? Of course not. Are they above it?

.Great post on the Contras, btw, luckydog.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

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ORIGINAL: philosophy

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

Breaking a speeding law for example is no moral wrong, IMO, but it's still breaking the law. So the next argument is, is breaking the law ever acceptable?? That is what we are discussing.

...i don't know the figures for the USA, but in the UK speeding kills more people (including innocent pedestrians) than there are incidents of murder.

Speeding doesn't kill, stopping suddenly does!

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So, in the UK at least, i'd argue that speeding is morally wrong. i think Fargle does have a point, in the sense that individuals do decide whether or not to obey a law....and that, if caught, they have to justify it. They don't get to argue about the law, they have to argue a greater good being served.....and that isn't always possible.

And some are exempt from certain laws. Even in states where it is illegal to own handguns, the police still do. Are they breaking the law? Of course not. Are they above it?

.Great post on the Contras, btw, luckydog.

They're NOT exempt from The Law, as The Law PERMITS them to carry those firearms.

Just like The Law PERMITS other people to own/carry handguns. Y'all need a PERMIT from The Judge.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I think I get your point. There are TWO different sets of Laws.

There's the set of laws which all of us Niggers need to obey.

And Massah don' need to obey any laws.

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ORIGINAL: luckydog1

The ICJ can rule anything it likes, who the hell cares.

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Do you remember after 9/11 many Americans asked the question 'why does everyone hate us?'. You are one that obviously never asked the question never mind try to answer it. The answer is simple. The US is an empire.

The people who blame America for everything asked that question.  You have shown nothing to support your claim yet. 

OK, you think America is a benign peace loving nation and everyone in the world is happy to have American troops in their backyard acting as if they were in Tennesse.

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An old British politician said the legacy of the British empire was spreading soccer around the world and the trerm 'Fuck off!'. Well the Americans can't leave 'Fuck off!' as a legacy but they can leave Micky Mouse and Coca Cola.

And good government, and women's rights, and health care, and the auto,  airplane, central heating and air, oh... It's just like that skit.. where they complain of Rome.. LOL LOL  (next you'll say since I compared us to Rome, that PROVES the US is an Empire, but that just shows your lack of understanding.)

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Don't mistake being liked for your money as the same as being liked for who you are.

Since I don't have a lot of money, I never suffer from that dellusion.

Well it isn't you people dislike since no one knows you but you are dellusional if you think American corporations backed by the threat of US military and economic power are loved around the world. It is not invidual Americans people hate but the US state and its bullying.

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Many take the money from you because they know they can't get rid of you and might as well get something out of the deal. This is nothing new, it happens in every empire. No matter, every empire had people like you who genuinely thought they weren't an empire but were spread around the globe because they were invited and liked.

Actually, I look more towards who imitates us, who buys our products or benefits from our innovations.  I also look at who benefits from our charity.  I see those who come to our universities or who immigrate...   Are you an American, Meatcleaver?

No, I'm not American but I go to the US regularly to visit my brother who is married to an American and lives there. I enjoy my visits very much.

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Oh And Britain didn't have to occupy land either to get what it wanted. You just need military power, money and the ability to divide and rule.

They didn't occupy India?  They didn't occupy the US or the West Indies?  Or Australia?  Rome didn't occupy Gaul or parts of England?  I think you are grasping at straws here.  We are not an Empire even if you do hate us so much.

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Do you remember after 9/11 many Americans asked the question 'why does everyone hate us?'. You are one that obviously never asked the question never mind try to answer it. The answer is simple. The US is an empire.

The people who blame America for everything asked that question.  You have shown nothing to support your claim yet. 

OK, you think America is a benign peace loving nation and everyone in the world is happy to have American troops in their backyard acting as if they were in Tennesse.

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An old British politician said the legacy of the British empire was spreading soccer around the world and the trerm 'Fuck off!'. Well the Americans can't leave 'Fuck off!' as a legacy but they can leave Micky Mouse and Coca Cola.

And good government, and women's rights, and health care, and the auto,  airplane, central heating and air, oh... It's just like that skit.. where they complain of Rome.. LOL LOL  (next you'll say since I compared us to Rome, that PROVES the US is an Empire, but that just shows your lack of understanding.)

I think you might find all thses things in all developed countries and just about all have better healthcare than the US. The inventions you mention are a product of western culture not just American. In fact many American innovations were from immigrants and German war criminals.

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Don't mistake being liked for your money as the same as being liked for who you are.

Since I don't have a lot of money, I never suffer from that dellusion.

Well it isn't you people dislike since no one knows you but you are dellusional if you think American corporations backed by the threat of US military and economic power are loved around the world. It is not invidual Americans people hate but the US state and its bullying.

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Many take the money from you because they know they can't get rid of you and might as well get something out of the deal. This is nothing new, it happens in every empire. No matter, every empire had people like you who genuinely thought they weren't an empire but were spread around the globe because they were invited and liked.

Actually, I look more towards who imitates us, who buys our products or benefits from our innovations.  I also look at who benefits from our charity.  I see those who come to our universities or who immigrate...   Are you an American, Meatcleaver?

No, I'm not American but I go to the US regularly to visit my brother who is married to an American and lives there. I enjoy my visits very much.

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Oh And Britain didn't have to occupy land either to get what it wanted. You just need military power, money and the ability to divide and rule.

They didn't occupy India?  They didn't occupy the US or the West Indies?  Or Australia?  Rome didn't occupy Gaul or parts of England?  I think you are grasping at straws here.  We are not an Empire even if you do hate us so much.

Actually they didn't occupy the US since the 13 colonies were British colonies. See how cockeyed your thinking is?
 
Britain had less than half the troops in India than the US has in Iraq and Britain only has troops in a fraction of India, most of India (Indian leaders) cooperated with the British for the same reasons many countries cooperate with the US today, military and economic threats. It is logical to take the US dollar, smile nicely and curse you under their breath than make enemies with you.