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Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 10:52:46 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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There are many areas in which we practice or demonstrate our submissiveness each and every day. Domestic service, sexual service, as a masochist...pain endurance. We strive to please and be found pleasing and it comes and flows from us as naturally as breathing. These things that fall within our comfort zones and are part and parcel of who we are. Kind of like driving the same route to work everyday...yes, you are in control of the vehicle but a large part of it happens without concious thought or effort. Even in the instance of pain play...we might be taken to our very limits of what we can tolerate...but there is a comfort there in knowing that we have developed skills to cope with that form of stimuli.

Where I have the hardest time is when I am taken outside of that area that feels "safe" to me. Humiliation play would be an example of this for me. I am normally composed and carry myself with class and dignity...and although it may seem a contradiction considering my chosen lifestyle...I am a woman who values my modesty. Humiliation play tends to unravel all of that composure that I strive so hard to maintain. How does one keep their sense of dignity and class when that modesty is removed as an option and the primary emotions are embarassment and humiliation? Especially in a situation with someone who you care enough about that you want them to have the best possible impression of you that you are capable of providing them with.

But I also find that it is exactly those times, when I am taken outside of my comfort zones that tend to evoke some of the most intense responses in me and even be the catalyst for some of my most profound growth.

How do others feel about submission outside of their comfort zones?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

Post #: 1

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 11:20:29 AM

VieVivante

Posts: 29
Joined: 9/22/2007
Status: offline

I have found that the more trust and admiration there is in the relationship, the more slaves are willing to be taken outside of their comfort zones. There is the belief that you are uncomfortable, but not being abused, which can sometimes be a thin edge indeed.

From what you have said, it sounds like your Master knows you very well, as when he does take you outside that comfort zone, you tend to have very positive results from them.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 2

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 12:17:37 PM

applecandy

Posts: 68
Joined: 10/18/2007
Status: offline

You truly are lucky to have a Dom that understands you so well. The ability to expand our horizons and find new ways of coping with our surroundings is one of the most attractive things about kink, in my opinion. To be able to let someone else help you find a sense of self and security in something that, in any other situation or with any other person, would bring about a sort of panic is exactly why we push our limits.

Sure, your Dom may be pushing your limits and requiring you to stand outside your boundaries, but you're the one stepping up to match that requirement. It's an inner battle that we all face at some point, when matched well.

_____________________________

--Hime

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense." -Buddha

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 3

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 12:23:23 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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My sense of dignity is related to the fact that he owns me. When he's put me in circumstances that are embarrassing or humiliating it's not my doing.

Basically, he might have me doing undignified things that make my face flame crimson , but *I* don't feel undignified as a person. I don't try to present a good impression no matter how much I care for him and most submission is outside of my comfort zone; it's just a matter of the degree.

agirl

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 4

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 12:24:50 PM

neloangelo1227

Posts: 22
Joined: 5/24/2007
Status: offline

I think VieVivante's comment about trust is spot on. I'm a sub who also considers myself at least cursorily confident and dignified in my daily life, and I've wondered a lot about dealing with humiliation play as well. I think it does come down to trust in your Dom(me). You have to trust that he or she is as familiar with your limits and tolerances as you are, and that you will not be pushed too far too fast. For me, the most intense (and rewarding) scenes come from when I am forced to drop all pretentions of dignity and self-consciousness, and entrust my very sense of self to my partner. These kinds of scenes are dangerous with the wrong person, but if you find someone who you trust, and who trusts you, and who knows what they're doing, you can experience a remarkable amount of personal development and intimacy together. It takes a lot of strength and real self-confidence--from the sub AND the Dom--to pull this off.

(in reply to applecandy)

Post #: 5

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 12:29:24 PM

batshalom

Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline

I expect to be taken there on occasion. If I submit the same way every day, even though it is submitting, it becomes routine and expected (by both parties). But when I am taken outside my safe area and made to do something that is uncomfortable to me, it is a reaffirmation of my commitment to serve.

It is also his reaffirmation of his commitment to lead because it is a challenge for him as well. Despite his warm feelings for me, he has to be able to continue when I am obviously not comfortable doing a thing, maybe even crying or begging to stop. He has to maintain control throughout the event and pull me through to the end, still intact and healthy enough to feel like Aba's yaldah. Maybe it's a larger task for him, in fact.

It isn't a catalyst for growth for me but it is a different sort of bonding, like kneeling at his feet for the first time, all over again.

(in reply to applecandy)

Post #: 6

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 12:38:06 PM

Tigrita

Posts: 484
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: California
Status: offline

There are a couple of things that take me outside my comfort zone, and bringing them up here is probably going to sound silly to a lot of people here and demonstrate exactly how not really submissive I am in the general sense.

One is service by command. I really prefer to anticipate things and do them out of love of my own power, or to be asked nicely. But the occasional command does remind me exactly who is in charge and why, and I do enjoy that feeling, it makes our D/s bond stronger when I feel that, so I wouldn't want to
never be commanded.

A second thing is kneeling. A big difference I've noticed between Charlotte (she is a slave) and myself is that she craves to be at his feet, she actively desires to go there. For me, I have to be put there. It doesn't come naturally, and a little bit of me resents it (a bit that is continuing to shrink as I embrace things more), trying to hold on to my independence etc. I suppose. But mostly it is just hard for me because I take so much pride in being strong, standing tall, a force to be reconed with myself, so being broght to my knees at the feet of another is painfully humbling. But I do not fight it because I do it out of my respect for him and his authority, like kneeling before a king, this is the proper way to show respect if he commands it, and it is his to command through his strength and authority. It also makes me feel painfully vulnerable, very hard on my tough girl personality, but in a very intimate, dangerously freeing way. Hard to describe how it hurts and feels so freeing at the same time.

~ J

_____________________________

~ Tigrita

There is no right path, only the path you take.

Success is making life happen, versus just letting life happen to you.

"Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't enjoy them." - Charlotte

(in reply to applecandy)

Post #: 7

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 12:42:24 PM

Tigrita

Posts: 484
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: California
Status: offline

I really like your post batshalom. I think it is important to remember the challenges for dominants as well in this lifestyle. I believe that challenging, pushing, striving flows both ways. You put it beautifully.

~ J

_____________________________

~ Tigrita

There is no right path, only the path you take.

Success is making life happen, versus just letting life happen to you.

"Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't enjoy them." - Charlotte

(in reply to batshalom)

Post #: 8

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 12:45:38 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

I understand what you're saying, but you choose to stay, don't you? It's not as though you bear NO responsibility for whatever happens.

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

My sense of dignity is related to the fact that he owns me. When he's put me in circumstances that are embarrassing or humiliating it's not my doing.

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 9

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 12:48:53 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom
It is also his reaffirmation of his commitment to lead because it is a challenge for him as well. Despite his warm feelings for me, he has to be able to continue when I am obviously not comfortable doing a thing, maybe even crying or begging to stop. He has to maintain control throughout the event and pull me through to the end, still intact and healthy enough to feel like Aba's yaldah. Maybe it's a larger task for him, in fact.

Now this definitely leads me to consider this in a new light. Thank you.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to batshalom)

Post #: 10

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 12:51:09 PM

neloangelo1227

Posts: 22
Joined: 5/24/2007
Status: offline

Tigrita, I think the dichotomy you're describing is one of the defining qualities of D/s play. Submission can be a release--a strong person can submit, and in doing so, he or she hears the warning bells of their conscious mind clanging: "This is wrong! You're losing control! Stand up! Don't let your guard down!" But as you let yourself ascend (or descend) into the submissive mindset, with someone you trust, the klaxon fades away, and you devote yourself to the desires of your partner, emptying your mind.

(in reply to Tigrita)

Post #: 11

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 12:52:59 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

Humiliation play is also one of the hardest things for me to do. However, if it's the same guy that listens to my diatribe about my crappy day at work or argument with a co-worker or family problems and tells me I'm ok and he's there for me, then my primary emotion when he's doing it isn't embarassment or humiliation, it's trust, in him. With that guy, I can be whatever he wants me to be without shame. I also trust that the "best possible impression" I can have on him is of someone that's human and has faults and wants very much to please him in return for his invaluable impact on my life.

I say this like it's easy and I know it's not, and it's not for me either. I think, however, instead of trying to "be" something or some image, you might want to try just letting down the walls, trusting him and just being, period. I'm not sure if that makes sense, and it's not at all in any way a criticism of you, I read your post and it sounds like me. It's just what has worked for me, and something I'm still very much working on. I can tell you from the Doms I have talked to about it, they don't usually think anything different about you being in an embarassing situation other than it's hot and humbling and rewarding for them to see the lengths to which you will go for them.

good luck to you,
l

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 11/1/2007 1:10:27 PM >

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 12

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 12:56:25 PM

neloangelo1227

Posts: 22
Joined: 5/24/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

It is also his reaffirmation of his commitment to lead because it is a challenge for him as well. Despite his warm feelings for me, he has to be able to continue when I am obviously not comfortable doing a thing, maybe even crying or begging to stop. He has to maintain control throughout the event and pull me through to the end, still intact and healthy enough to feel like Aba's yaldah. Maybe it's a larger task for him, in fact.

I think this is an extremely salient point that people forget all too often. It's easy to buy into the stereotype of the sub harboring all of the emotional vulnerability, but it also takes incredible strength on the part of the Dom, who must restrain the immediate urge to protect, kiss and show affection. The more a Dom cares about his sub, the harder it is for him to push her outside her comfort zone.

(in reply to batshalom)

Post #: 13

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 1:05:40 PM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

My sense of dignity is related to the fact that he owns me. When he's put me in circumstances that are embarrassing or humiliating it's not my doing.

Basically, he might have me doing undignified things that make my face flame crimson , but *I* don't feel undignified as a person. I don't try to present a good impression no matter how much I care for him and most submission is outside of my comfort zone; it's just a matter of the degree.

agirl

I loved how this is written and describes how I feel. When taken to places that put me out of a comfort zone I focus on my trust for my Master and of course to take pleasure in his pleasure of the situation. Certainly in the beginning of a relationship as trusts builds the more I might need reassuring that he does not think less of me but over time I need less and less of things of that nature.

For me as I build up the experiences of this nature and my trust of him I find it easier and easier to deal outside of my comfort zone because I know the only thing about it is pleasing my Master and feel confident that he will feel the same or more about me and not less for the situation he has put me in. It does not make the actual things any easier or pleasurable to do but just makes my mind at peace and throw out insecure doubt.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 14

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 1:18:21 PM

AEslaveM

Posts: 126
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline

My thanks to all who posted about this. i have been struggling with this, and have gained some valuable insight through your posts.

_____________________________

M

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 15

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 1:33:54 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

Nice question, mist.

I am going to come at it from the dominant point of view since the submissive view is being expressed well already and because...well...I AM a dominant.

Those who've said that trust is a key factor in this are right. They are right from the dominant side also. The dominant has to trust that, when he pushes his submissive outside their comfort zone...whether it be in play or mannerisms or behavior or thinking or service...that she is going to respond in a positive fashion, either in terms of growth or of feeling drawn closer; that she has enough trust in him to understand that no matter what his motivation is, he will not harm her with what he is pushing her to do and that he will step in if harm does appear to be occurring and yet, as batshalom put it so nicely, reaffirm his commitment to lead by not giving into tears or whines or pouts while remaining ready to help and communicate. He has to trust that she will not go off on him and will follow through on her commitment to submit and not throw it all...the submission, the relationship, everything...back in his face. He has to trust that she will understand that his intentions are honest and not designed to set her up for failure and that she knows him well enough to know that he will not be disappointed by an honest try and failure. He has to trust that his ability to determine and judge and know his submissive's abilities and desires and capabilities is truly reflective of his honest observations of her and not a reflection of some impossible fantasy he harbors within himself or a reflection of poor judgement and implementation.

As you can see, when we push like this, we take a chance with our emotions also.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 16

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 1:38:21 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

Thank you CD...it is really nice to get the dominant perspective. (and it's also really nice to see you post to a thread of mine and not torture me with thoughts of..............those dreaded..................Rocky Mountain Oysters!)

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 17

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 1:56:56 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Thank you CD...it is really nice to get the dominant perspective. (and it's also really nice to see you post to a thread of mine and not torture me with thoughts of..............those dreaded..................Rocky Mountain Oysters!)

Think of it as another way of....pushing...outside your comfort zone, lovely mist.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 18

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 2:00:09 PM

subtee

Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Nice question, mist.

I am going to come at it from the dominant point of view since the submissive view is being expressed well already and because...well...I AM a dominant.

Those who've said that trust is a key factor in this are right. They are right from the dominant side also. The dominant has to trust that, when he pushes his submissive outside their comfort zone...whether it be in play or mannerisms or behavior or thinking or service...that she is going to respond in a positive fashion, either in terms of growth or of feeling drawn closer; that she has enough trust in him to understand that no matter what his motivation is, he will not harm her with what he is pushing her to do and that he will step in if harm does appear to be occurring and yet, as batshalom put it so nicely, reaffirm his commitment to lead by not giving into tears or whines or pouts while remaining ready to help and communicate. He has to trust that she will not go off on him and will follow through on her commitment to submit and not throw it all...the submission, the relationship, everything...back in his face. He has to trust that she will understand that his intentions are honest and not designed to set her up for failure and that she knows him well enough to know that he will not be disappointed by an honest try and failure. He has to trust that his ability to determine and judge and know his submissive's abilities and desires and capabilities is truly reflective of his honest observations of her and not a reflection of some impossible fantasy he harbors within himself or a reflection of poor judgement and implementation.

As you can see, when we push like this, we take a chance with our emotions also.

If I may presume to highlight some very important points above; all emphases are mine. These and all posts suggesting the same are happily coming from this trust, best intentions dynamic. I'm truly glad for all who a lucky enough to have this!

However, it is not always the case and I've been subject to being taken "outside my comfort zone" by one who's motivations were hostile, where he didn't feel the need to determine by abilities/capabilities, and therefore I couldn't trust or understand that his intentions were anything but hostile.

So within the beautiful, synchronistic, reciprocally trusting relationship, yes, go there, experience! However, without, please don't.

p.s. He's gone now. Buh bye.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 19

RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 2:02:21 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Thank you CD...it is really nice to get the dominant perspective. (and it's also really nice to see you post to a thread of mine and not torture me with thoughts of..............those dreaded..................Rocky Mountain Oysters!)

Think of it as another way of....pushing...outside your comfort zone, lovely mist.

LOL...saying that Rocky Mountain Oysters are outside of my comfort zone is a bit like saying that Mars is outside of my neighborhood!

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 20

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