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RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 2:09:21 PM   
CreativeDominant


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Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Nice question, mist. 

I am going to come at it from the dominant point of view since the submissive view is being expressed well already and because...well...I AM a dominant.

Those who've said that trust is a key factor in this are right.  They are right from the dominant side also.  The dominant has to trust that, when he pushes his submissive outside their comfort zone...whether it be in play or mannerisms or behavior or thinking or service...that she is going to respond in a positive fashion, either in terms of growth or of feeling drawn closer;  that she has enough trust in him to understand that no matter what his motivation is, he will not harm her with what he is pushing her to do and that he will step in if harm does appear to be occurring and yet, as batshalom put it so nicely, reaffirm his commitment to lead by not giving into tears or whines or pouts while remaining ready to help and communicate.  He has to trust that she will not go off on him and will follow through on her commitment to submit and not throw it all...the submission, the relationship, everything...back in his face.  He has to trust that she will understand that his intentions are honest and not designed to set her up for failure and that she knows him well enough to know that he will not be disappointed by an honest try and failure.  He has to trust that his ability to determine and judge and know his submissive's abilities and desires and capabilities is truly reflective of his honest observations of her and not a reflection of some impossible fantasy he harbors within himself or a reflection of poor judgement and implementation.

As you can see, when we push like this, we take a chance with our emotions also. 


If I may presume to highlight some very important points above; all emphases are mine. These and all posts suggesting the same are happily coming from this trust, best intentions dynamic. I'm truly glad for all who a lucky enough to have this!

However, it is not always the case and I've been subject to being taken "outside my comfort zone" by one who's motivations were hostile, where he didn't feel the need to determine by abilities/capabilities, and therefore I couldn't trust or understand that his intentions were anything but hostile.

So within the beautiful, synchronistic, reciprocally trusting relationship, yes, go there, experience! However, without, please don't.

p.s. He's gone now. Buh bye.


Sadly, there are dominants who do just as you describe...who push for reasons that are the exact opposite of those I described above.  But luckily, with enough instances of the submissive stepping back and looking at things in the cold, harsh light of the day and the reality of their own life, she realizes that his intentions are not honest, that he is not interested in her growth but only in his own experiences, and that he truly does not care for her as even an object, let alone as a human and she runs.  Hopefully, there are those that help her further by reinforcing her decision in those moments of doubt, those who point out that submission and dominance is NOT all about one but about all that are engaging in it within the dynamic.


(in reply to subtee)
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RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 2:12:38 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		Well said, thank you.

(Now where is this truck you mentioned? Tee hee)

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 2:14:32 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Well said, thank you.

(Now where is this truck you mentioned? Tee hee)


Outside the coffee shop right now....

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 2:28:49 PM   
Cipherx


Posts: 18
Joined: 11/19/2006
Status: offline 		A hard limit is a hard limit.  Master and slave should agree if those limits are to be tested or stretched. 

If they are exceeded, deliberately, without consent, get the hell out of there.  Run, do not walk.  If you cannot trust your Master once, you should not trust him ever.

If you are talking "confort zone" and not a hard limit, then shut up or add it to your hard limits list.

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RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 2:41:52 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Cipherx,
how can you possibly describe yourself as "laid back" with that attitude?  She's asking for advice not asking you to determine her hard limits, get over yourself, if you don't have anything to add, don't.  "Shut up" isn't helpful or intelligent.  IamDomhearmeroar doesn't exactly go over well here.

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RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 2:58:13 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
How do others feel about submission outside of their comfort zones?


Love it; hate it.  Terrified of it sometimes and annoyed by it at others.  I find it gratifying and rewarding when I am able to handle those things in a positive way.  Then there are those things that were once outside my comfort zone and are slowly becoming part of my comfort zone. 

The most recent is being a passenger in a vehicle.  I am extremely uncomfortable not being the driver of a vehicle and it is very rare that he will allow me to drive.  On our most recent vacation we both noticed that it was not as stressful as it has been in the past and he was not able to tell if I was uncomfortable or not.

I also get very stressed when things become unpredictable.  I like plans, knowing where I am going, when I am going and how...  He changes things on a dime.  Sometimes I think he does it just to fuck me up  *g*  Mostly he does it because he sees an opportunity or something that he doesn't want to miss and can add to what we are doing.  I am getting better at handling his unpredictability, but it is still outside my comfort zone.

It is becoming easier to handle those things and there are times that if I don't experience it for awhile, then I do not feel challenged and worry about becoming complacent.  In many ways, it is a tug on the reigns that says, I am in charge here and we are doing things on my terms and not yours.  My comfort is only relevant when he wants it to be relevant.  As long as I am not harmed, then I find a way to manage.  Sometimes poorly but then other times with grace.

Knight's Kyra

p.s. Did I mention that it is a love/hate thing?

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 3:28:34 PM   
agirl


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Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I understand what you're saying, but you choose to stay, don't you?  It's not as though you bear NO responsibility for whatever happens.

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

My sense of dignity is related to the fact that he owns me. When he's put me in circumstances that are embarrassing or humiliating it's not my doing.



Absolutely. I'm not suggesting otherwise.

I'm referring to specific acts or instances within. As far as I'm concerned, he IS responsible for poo running down my legs if he inserts an enema and he'd say he was responsible for it, too.

agirl

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RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 3:50:35 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		My first thought (laughing) is "Everything he does is outside my comfort zone!" but that's not actually true.

However, he does often take me outside my comfort zone with some regularlity.  It's all about stretching my mind and adding to my strength and allowing me to grow in many ways.  Things that were once scary to me now come easily.  I love that he does this - it has helped me deal with so many major things in life that have come my way.  There is really very little that shocks or upsets me anymore as a result, and I really am quite grateful to him for that.

I enjoyed what batshalom wrote about considering the Dominant's perspective in this.  Often times my Master is a bit quiet and withdrawn after taking me someplace extreme, and while I used to think he was pulling away from me (Rafe wrote of this type of behavior in another thread recently), I have come to understand he has his own ways of processing things, too.  Taking me out of my comfort zone sometimes takes him out of his.  I could serve him much better once I came to understand that.

In any case, being taken out of my comfort zone causes me to truly rely on my trust in him, and as a result I find our bond growing ever stronger and my confidence in both him and in my own abilities ever increasing.  I've come to a point where the more difficult something is for me, the more I love it and want it.

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 4:19:29 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
How do others feel about submission outside of their comfort zones?

I grew HARDER when pushed.

I have grown BETTER in the relationship in which I feel totally secure, free, and the most I am really pressured to go beyond my comfort zone is to try some new foods.

It might be because I have few standard inhibitions and don't view pushing limits as an issue.  If I want to do something, I do it.  If I don't, I don't.  Limits or comfort really isn't the relevant point for me.

I don't think pushing beyond comfort zones is negative, it can be exactly what a person needs.  But I had enough of that and know that life will do enough pushing on its own that I needn't reach out for it actively. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 5:16:52 PM   
Cyntilating


Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline 		 
...if he never pushed me out of my comfort zone,
 
He would never have seen me nekkid
I would still be afraid to drive on his side of the town
I would have never masturbated in front of him
I would not have had my poetry published
my legs would still be non-functioning
~I would not have realized even half of how strong I am as a woman and as a person
I would have continued to be afraid to completely trust again
..............and the list goes on.
 
 
 
 
 
 

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 5:30:44 PM   
Tigrita


Posts: 484
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Oh, Cyndi, that is so beautiful!  I think that is exactly the kind of beauty that so many of us have to give and recieve and the challenge of reaching it is what makes it all the more beautiful.  What a great post!

_____________________________

~ Tigrita

There is no right path, only the path you take.

Success is making life happen, versus just letting life happen to you.

"Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't enjoy them." - Charlotte

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 5:38:59 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		It's a tough balancing act. Push too hard or too fast and either I balk or I break down. Don't push enough and we get into a rut. What works best for me is not to force me through stuff, we've tried it because it sounds hot, but it doesn't work in actuality. He needs to give me enough rope to hang myself. Which means talking about it, holding me while he does so, demonstrating it while talking to me the whole time, touching me, reminding me I can stop anytime and he won't be upset, tons of praise afterwards and then dropping it for several months during which time I think about it, read up about it and usually come up with a way I think I can handle it.

For the crop, it came down to him blindfolding me beforehand and not telling me, just using several different things so I didn't try to identify them the way I will if it's just one. And then he would put it away before removing the blindfold. This went on for a while before he even told me he was using it, and several times like that before he could leave it out.


For tying me to a pole, we went through this six times before I finally figured out why one time it was great and the other five I had panic attacks - turns out if he ties my head to the pole that sets off the panic but if my head is free I don't. Go figure. Oh yeah, and not the pole on the four poster, having broken it once I'm petrified of breaking it again, this time while tied to it.

I almost always get there in the end, but it can sometimes be a snail's pace.

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 5:54:47 PM   
Cyntilating


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Joined: 6/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tigrita

Oh, Cyndi, that is so beautiful!  I think that is exactly the kind of beauty that so many of us have to give and recieve and the challenge of reaching it is what makes it all the more beautiful.  What a great post!


thank you, Tigrita    

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to Tigrita)
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RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 6:00:49 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		In thinking about this more, I'd guess I'd really say "Being comfortable and secure IS what's outside of my comfort zone"  so my partner teaching and giving me that is a constant blessing.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 11/1/2007 6:01:19 PM >

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Cyntilating)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 6:05:31 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Wow LA that really affected me.  That was a big one for me - I didn't know how to be happy and to feel secure.  I remember once asking, "Is this what happiness feels like?"    The first time he wanted me to sleep in silky, luxurious sheets, I cried - I always felt too guilty buying something like that for myself.

So it's not just the "extreme" stuff that develops us and moves us outside our comfort zones.  Great point.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 6:05:59 PM   
NControlofU


Posts: 204
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		I put my slave in embarasing spots all the time.  She hates being the center of attention and she gets real uncomfortable when I make her do things that bring attention to her.  Its one of my enjoyments and I dont do it to degrade her or take away from her dignity.  I do it to show her that she has dignity and integrity no matter what I make her do.  Its not what she's doing that matters.  She finds out that she's still beautiful and good no matter how much she thinks she looks foolish or how she thinks others will look at her.  Each time I put her through a exercise in humiliation she finds out that she can do things she never thought possible and that she would never do without me making her do them and without me standing there to hold her up if she falls.  She knows that I'm her safety net and that I will rush to catch her the second I see her start to fall and I never take my eyes off of her.   She never falls and she finds out that she's stronger than she thought she was.  She learns that the truth of her value isn't measured by how others see her but how she seees herself. 

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 6:06:46 PM   
Cyntilating


Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

In thinking about this more, I'd guess I'd really say "Being comfortable and secure IS what's outside of my comfort zone"  so my partner teaching and giving me that is a constant blessing.


I think I understand  : )

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 6:10:24 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Oh and I disagree about the blanket statement of not stopping if she cries. For someone who doesn't usually cry, this can be a sign that you've gone too far. It depends on the submissive in question.

(in reply to Cyntilating)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 6:21:22 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		It is a great risk for the dominant to take a submissive outside of her comfort zone, and even the most well intentioned dominant can have it backfire in their face.

I do not mind being taken somewhat outside of my comfort zone, as long as my partner is willing to help me pick up the pieces if it does not go well...

You know, it sounds trite, but communication is the key to knowing that you will have a place to stand even though you are in chilly waters.



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/1/2007 6:31:11 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		~FR~

About the only things that take me outside my comfort zone are those things which Himself orders that hurt my heart. That sort of submission does not make me happy, does not help me grow, does not feed my spirit and I don't want to do them. I do them anyway because that's what I do, that's what I'm supposed to do and that's what I agreed to do even when it hurts my heart. What hurts my heart, generally, has to do with the health and welfare of the people I most love.

Celeste  

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 40
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