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RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/4/2007 7:18:07 AM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		I'm accustomed to dissonances in this by now.

A sub often will fantacize that a thing is other than it is-and many concoct hard limits purely from imagination. The only real test is doing-over thinking about doing.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to batshalom)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/4/2007 7:20:37 AM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline 		I'm sorry, RRafe. What? What post were you answering?

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/4/2007 7:21:09 AM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		general reply.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to batshalom)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/4/2007 7:27:03 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
slave will always be grateful to Master for taking her WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY beyond her comfort zone to a place where HIS comfort, HIS pleasure, what HE wants, is not just the most important thing, but the ONLY thing in her focus.

But you say you take pleasure in experiences which were previously unpleasureable for you.  In order for you to believe you experienced "pleasure" you MUST take into account your own personal comfort level in the assessment process.


thank the Great Architect we are all NOT the same!!!!  perhaps YOU must assess YOUR own personal comfort level in order to have the experience of pleasure.  this slave has indeed experienced pleasure by pleasing someone else, BEYOND her comfort zone, right smack in the middle of the urge to FLEE or fight.

this slave explained in her previous post that her "comfort zones" are in the process of change---a change that Master insitigated almost 5 years ago, and is still a work in progress.   comfort zones have changed and are changing due to Master taking her beyond her "initial" comfort zone, to a place where any previous assessment of comfort is thrown out the window and we forge on.

quote:


In order for his pleasure to be the ONLY thing in your focus, that must mean that you do not assess what you experience as negative OR positive.


maybe if you were calling the shots in our relationship, you could make such a rule, or if you knew what pleased Him, you could make such a statement and have it be an accurate representation.  but you aren't and you don't, so how do you come to this generalization, keeping in mind, this slave is not you and you are not the Master in this relationship?

quote:

Well my questions had nothing to do with down to earthedness, simply the seeming contradictions in what Beth says she experiences and that leading her to her goal and what she says the goal actually is.


this slave didn't see any direct questions in any of your posts, just accusations of "seeming contradictions", but feel free to ask one anytime and this slave will endeavor to answer it!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/4/2007 7:29:17 AM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

general reply.


Ok, then I might need more coffee.

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/4/2007 7:36:09 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

I don't know, LA. That seems like a case of semantics to me. It was a good post, I see what beth is saying, which is that she finds Merc's leadership to be ultimately positive (or, I'm assuming, she wouldn't be able to only focus on his pleasure, comfort, wants, and needs).


it might be a case of semantics, or it might be the case of LA trying to play some sort of One-True-Way-Of-All-Intimate-Realtionships card.  with her, this slave is never sure.
 
Master's leadership is indeed ultimately positive.  He has taken this slave to places she has never been---physically, mentally and emotionally---and would have never experienced if she limited Him according to a particular personal comfort zone that was established as prior to becoming Master's slave.
 
quote:

....They take pleasure in each other...


Yes we do!!!!  and Master's pleasure is paramount.

(in reply to batshalom)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/4/2007 9:44:41 AM   
Abraxus


Posts: 56
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		"this slave has had success with several things she had no experience with and also with one specific activity---a specific way this slave was raped when she was younger---is now a pleasurable activity for Master that this slave participates in with enthusiasm and pride.  there is no more crying, frustration, her stomach doesn't turn anymore, that overwhelming urge to run away has gone---it didn't just happen overnight, or after the first try.  it was something that had to be worked through, physically, mentally and emotionally, sometimes alone and sometimes with Master there."
It is a thin line when a Master tries to play arm chair psychiatrist. One runs the risk of doing permanent Mental damage causing more harm than good. In My opinion unless a Master has specialized training He/She has no business trying to solve a slave/submissive mental health issues. Leave that to a professional. It is not a responsibility of a Master to fix His slave. In the above case things may have worked out lucky them. However, in more cases than not, more damage is done than good.


_____________________________

Master Sage

"There is no sacred law than that of my own."
~unknown

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/4/2007 10:26:12 AM   
deziray


Posts: 18
Status: offline 		Hello mistoferin
 
I am trying to remember what my comfort zones used to be; but am finding the memories unattainable.
J has pushed me in directions that I never would have gone by myself; but I can not say if I felt uncomfortable when he did so; it was quite long ago.
I do know that after two years together; there is no place he can send me that will not feel right, peaceful, serene, and like home ; whether it is a place that I wish to go to or not.

_____________________________

It is only in the silence of calm that the beat of the heart can be heard

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/4/2007 11:53:17 AM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Master's leadership is indeed ultimately positive.  He has taken this slave to places she has never been---physically, mentally and emotionally---and would have never experienced if she limited Him according to a particular personal comfort zone that was established as prior to becoming Master's slave.
 
quote:

....They take pleasure in each other...


Yes we do!!!!  and Master's pleasure is paramount.



The pleasure you find in each other shows, beth. ~smiling~ I wish you both many years of continued happiness and contentment.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/5/2007 7:13:49 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe
Of course it is. That's why you need to feel that the Top is doing it from a sense of caring-rather than malice-or a power trip.


See Rrafe, there's this rational part of my brain that can understand this perfectly....but then, of course, there is this other part that can't comprehend why anyone who does care would wish to see me spiral out of control, unravel and crumble to pieces....or how they would be able to have to same level of respect for me after they saw me turn into an emotional puddle.

I really do know that that part of me is just being totally irrational...


Ind of one of those ironic things, isn't it, mist?  As dominants, we want to remain in control of ourselves and our emotions and only let them out occasionally or to demonstrate to a submissive that they ARE there and that we care about this person that we are leading out of control of themselves and that we will help put them back together after doing so.  But...to get that level of trust, you have to open up your emotional side...both dominant and submissive...to see that there is caring and kindness on the dominant's side AND the ability to let go and NOT frantically build that wall again after a scene on the submissive's side.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/5/2007 7:18:34 AM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe
Of course it is. That's why you need to feel that the Top is doing it from a sense of caring-rather than malice-or a power trip.


See Rrafe, there's this rational part of my brain that can understand this perfectly....but then, of course, there is this other part that can't comprehend why anyone who does care would wish to see me spiral out of control, unravel and crumble to pieces....or how they would be able to have to same level of respect for me after they saw me turn into an emotional puddle.

I really do know that that part of me is just being totally irrational...


Ind of one of those ironic things, isn't it, mist?  As dominants, we want to remain in control of ourselves and our emotions and only let them out occasionally or to demonstrate to a submissive that they ARE there and that we care about this person that we are leading out of control of themselves and that we will help put them back together after doing so.  But...to get that level of trust, you have to open up your emotional side...both dominant and submissive...to see that there is caring and kindness on the dominant's side AND the ability to let go and NOT frantically build that wall again after a scene on the submissive's side.


I really despise stereotypes. I have an ability to be open and honest about my fears,dreams and strengths-as well as weaknesses. Living in armor makes you numb to life.

You will suffer more pain by putting yours in the closet-but that is part of being alive.

Rather than half alive.

Choice always comes with consequences attached.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/5/2007 7:30:06 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe
Of course it is. That's why you need to feel that the Top is doing it from a sense of caring-rather than malice-or a power trip.


See Rrafe, there's this rational part of my brain that can understand this perfectly....but then, of course, there is this other part that can't comprehend why anyone who does care would wish to see me spiral out of control, unravel and crumble to pieces....or how they would be able to have to same level of respect for me after they saw me turn into an emotional puddle.

I really do know that that part of me is just being totally irrational...


Ind of one of those ironic things, isn't it, mist?  As dominants, we want to remain in control of ourselves and our emotions and only let them out occasionally or to demonstrate to a submissive that they ARE there and that we care about this person that we are leading out of control of themselves and that we will help put them back together after doing so.  But...to get that level of trust, you have to open up your emotional side...both dominant and submissive...to see that there is caring and kindness on the dominant's side AND the ability to let go and NOT frantically build that wall again after a scene on the submissive's side.


I really despise stereotypes. I have an ability to be open and honest about my fears,dreams and strengths-as well as weaknesses. Living in armor makes you numb to life.

You will suffer more pain by putting yours in the closet-but that is part of being alive.

Rather than half alive.

Choice always comes with consequences attached.


I didn't mean to stereotype but I realize that my post could be seen that way.  I probably put have put the general disclaimers in or used the word "some".

This is how it is for me and for some dominant friends of mine and for some submissive friends of mine and for several submissives I have played with.

Myself...I like to put out on the line what I am thinking and feeling and take the chance of someone thinking I am an odd ball (hmmmmmmm, maybe that is why that 8-Ball follows me around) as to have someone constantly wonder what I am thinking or feeling.  There are those times I restrain myself but for the most part, no one ever doubts what I think or feel.  And if they do doubt or question what I am thinking or feeling, all they have to do is ask. 

As you noted, the choice to be this way does have consequences but I would rather live with those as the ones that come about from never daring to express what I think or feel.

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/5/2007 7:34:54 AM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe
Of course it is. That's why you need to feel that the Top is doing it from a sense of caring-rather than malice-or a power trip.


See Rrafe, there's this rational part of my brain that can understand this perfectly....but then, of course, there is this other part that can't comprehend why anyone who does care would wish to see me spiral out of control, unravel and crumble to pieces....or how they would be able to have to same level of respect for me after they saw me turn into an emotional puddle.

I really do know that that part of me is just being totally irrational...


Ind of one of those ironic things, isn't it, mist?  As dominants, we want to remain in control of ourselves and our emotions and only let them out occasionally or to demonstrate to a submissive that they ARE there and that we care about this person that we are leading out of control of themselves and that we will help put them back together after doing so.  But...to get that level of trust, you have to open up your emotional side...both dominant and submissive...to see that there is caring and kindness on the dominant's side AND the ability to let go and NOT frantically build that wall again after a scene on the submissive's side.


I really despise stereotypes. I have an ability to be open and honest about my fears,dreams and strengths-as well as weaknesses. Living in armor makes you numb to life.

You will suffer more pain by putting yours in the closet-but that is part of being alive.

Rather than half alive.

Choice always comes with consequences attached.


I didn't mean to stereotype but I realize that my post could be seen that way.  I probably put have put the general disclaimers in or used the word "some".

This is how it is for me and for some dominant friends of mine and for some submissive friends of mine and for several submissives I have played with.

Myself...I like to put out on the line what I am thinking and feeling and take the chance of someone thinking I am an odd ball (hmmmmmmm, maybe that is why that 8-Ball follows me around) as to have someone constantly wonder what I am thinking or feeling.  There are those times I restrain myself but for the most part, no one ever doubts what I think or feel.  And if they do doubt or question what I am thinking or feeling, all they have to do is ask. 

As you noted, the choice to be this way does have consequences but I would rather live with those as the ones that come about from never daring to express what I think or feel.


Most of us seem to be here to find..something. And that won't be happening by holding back. I think we all need to learn to stretch a little beyond our comfort zones-that's when things get interesting.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/5/2007 7:40:22 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe
Of course it is. That's why you need to feel that the Top is doing it from a sense of caring-rather than malice-or a power trip.


See Rrafe, there's this rational part of my brain that can understand this perfectly....but then, of course, there is this other part that can't comprehend why anyone who does care would wish to see me spiral out of control, unravel and crumble to pieces....or how they would be able to have to same level of respect for me after they saw me turn into an emotional puddle.

I really do know that that part of me is just being totally irrational...


Ind of one of those ironic things, isn't it, mist?  As dominants, we want to remain in control of ourselves and our emotions and only let them out occasionally or to demonstrate to a submissive that they ARE there and that we care about this person that we are leading out of control of themselves and that we will help put them back together after doing so.  But...to get that level of trust, you have to open up your emotional side...both dominant and submissive...to see that there is caring and kindness on the dominant's side AND the ability to let go and NOT frantically build that wall again after a scene on the submissive's side.


I really despise stereotypes. I have an ability to be open and honest about my fears,dreams and strengths-as well as weaknesses. Living in armor makes you numb to life.

You will suffer more pain by putting yours in the closet-but that is part of being alive.

Rather than half alive.

Choice always comes with consequences attached.


I didn't mean to stereotype but I realize that my post could be seen that way.  I probably put have put the general disclaimers in or used the word "some".

This is how it is for me and for some dominant friends of mine and for some submissive friends of mine and for several submissives I have played with.

Myself...I like to put out on the line what I am thinking and feeling and take the chance of someone thinking I am an odd ball (hmmmmmmm, maybe that is why that 8-Ball follows me around) as to have someone constantly wonder what I am thinking or feeling.  There are those times I restrain myself but for the most part, no one ever doubts what I think or feel.  And if they do doubt or question what I am thinking or feeling, all they have to do is ask. 

As you noted, the choice to be this way does have consequences but I would rather live with those as the ones that come about from never daring to express what I think or feel.


Most of us seem to be here to find..something. And that won't be happening by holding back. I think we all need to learn to stretch a little beyond our comfort zones-that's when things get interesting.


I agree, Rafe...as noted in my earlier post on this thread.  Blame my post of inadvertent stereotyping...though as I noted in the next post, it does hold true for some and may, in some small way, for many hold true... two posts ago to a bad weekend with the Buffs and Broncos and getting up wayyyyyyyyyyy too early this morning.

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/5/2007 7:40:41 AM   
Vanatru


Posts: 300
Joined: 4/16/2004
Status: offline 		Great advise, Rafe. btw, all the walls only hinder us from what we want and need the most. Removal of those walls and barriers is no one else's responsibility but our own. I see a lot of people living ghost lives cause they are too afraid to take chances to follow their bliss. Sure, you can get hurt taking risks, but is living a ghost life really a better alternative?

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/5/2007 7:44:05 AM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vanatru

Great advise, Rafe. btw, all the walls only hinder us from what we want and need the most. Removal of those walls and barriers is no one else's responsibility but our own. I see a lot of people living ghost lives cause they are too afraid to take chances to follow their bliss. Sure, you can get hurt taking risks, but is living a ghost life really a better alternative?


I take a lot of risks here, I know things I like will turn a lot of women off. But is that really a risk?

Or just a lack of the desire to settle? I have nothing to lose-and everything to gain.

The glass is half full.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to Vanatru)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Submission outside your comfort zone - 11/5/2007 12:04:39 PM   
SottoVoce


Posts: 13
Joined: 5/26/2007
Status: offline 		This is a good topic.

I suppose I am reminded of the words of a submissive I once knew, she asked other subs something to the effect of-

"What about submission when you have a headache and really just want to lay down and sleep until it goes away, what if your master wants to drink beer and watch the game and you really want to be trained or play, do you accept and submit, make that an enjoyable experience for him or do you become petulant- How is your submission when it is not to your liking?" (paraphrased, it's been a long while)

As a dominant, I found it a very good question- I seek out those edges, I will always move her into her discomfort zone, part of my task is to find that zone out, map it, learn it and then expand it.

Because it is what I want, I want her to feel beautiful under my tutelage, to know that what I do with her, how I form her is beautiful in the only eyes that count-

Mine- hers...

And my desires are not usually comfortable, they are wide and a girl is going to experience bits of everything, from pain slut through cock whore to humiliation addict...

That said, it is eminently clear that not every sub wants or needs that nor does every dominant require it.

If she starts talking about the old doormat thing, well, I don't treat mine like a doormat, i do insist she share my needs, be the opposing side of my circle- but if she feels like a doormat she needs to leave.

Because it will never work.

As for it being hard, harder or hardest- yes-

lll things of worth, like master's smile, take effort, real effort and dedication-

And a sub feels that, knows when she is striving to be her best, I think.

It makes her glow...

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 97
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