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Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 10:58:59 AM

laurell3

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A recent post and personal experience I had have led me to this question. As always, please don't assume I am baiting or suggesting there is one right answer for all. There is one right answer for me, I have stated it on more than one occasion, aftercare is not negotiable and is mandatory for me as a sub. But I am not everyone and would like to hear your views on it.

In your opinion, if you are in the situation where aftercare can be given, is it discretionary on the part of the Dom/me or a necessity to those that engage in bdsm? If you have the opinion that it is up to the Dom/me, why? and what is your response to the backlash or difficulties the sub/slave may have without aftercare?

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RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 11:08:02 AM

MystressDream

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Aftercare is mandatory and non-negotiable for me also. From the Dom side. I require it as much as any sub would and I won't scene with anyone who does not want or like aftercare. It is a time to reconnect with someone I have just inflicted a great deal of pain on, and it is also a time to mentally process how much that person means to me and vice versa. If I do a scene and then turn and walk away, I feel totally empy. I know it's just me.... but, as I said, I believe it is just as important for me as it is for the sub/slave/bottom I scene with.

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RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 11:09:06 AM

bipolarber

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Oh, it's discretionary, of course. But I wouldn't think much of a Dom/me who didn't do anything in terms of aftercare. At the very minimum, I expect to be kept company until I come back to myself, and am once again in charge of my actions.

A call the next day to make sure I am still okay is also a nice touch, and leaves me feeling like I was actually with someone who gave a damn about those they played with...

...and if they didn't, I'd be sure to pass that info on (if asked for an opinion of someone) to any subs who might be thinking of playing with them. Not to be vindictive, but to give people a realistic feel of what to expect.

(in reply to laurell3)

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RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 11:12:11 AM

hisannabelle

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From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
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greetings laurell,

in our relationship, aftercare is discretionary. to be honest, he's not particularly good or consistent at providing it, and yes, that can occasionally cause problems. but i have learned to deal with the situation. i would prefer to have aftercare all the time, especially considering that we do go to some scary places, but i accept that things are the way they are. it's not really that i think aftercare SHOULD be discretionary, just that that's how it is for us...given the option, i would make it mandatory.

respectfully,
annabelle.

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RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 11:13:39 AM

sammiebabygirl

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NOT having aftercare is one of my hard limits. I will not play with anyone who is unwilling to provide it. For me, it provides closure of the scene and helps bring me down, as I tend to go very deep. The more aftercare I get, the less likely I am to have a hard drop as well.

jen

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RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 11:14:28 AM

LadyHibiscus

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I think aftercare is necessary, even if all it consists of is a check-in and a bottle of water. I wouldn't dream of just abandoning someone I had played with, even if it was a mild scene.

I admit that I draw the line at those who are incredibly needy...I played with a young man whose aftercare took as long as the scene, I swear! For me, that was a drag. Luckily his primary didn't think so. :)

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RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 11:15:40 AM

breatheasone

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Yes..I feel its NECESSARY. I personally won't play with....and definetly wouldn't commit to somone who felt other wise

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RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 11:19:06 AM

laurell3

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Thank you for the replies so far.

My reason for posting and part of my personal struggle with needing aftercare, which I do as I do tend to really let go, is that I'm typically very independent and not at all a high-maintenance type of person. It's frustrating to me that I need it (yeah yeah I'm not an island and working on it) and even more frustrating if I have to explain that to someone repeatedly. For me personally it isn't just immediately following a scene, it's the day after as well and without it, I get depressed, which is easily avoided with a fairly small amount of contact.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

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RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 11:26:07 AM

MystressDream

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Why would you have to explain that to someone repeatedly? If he/she doesn't listen when you tell them how important it is to you, then I would hesitate to trust that they care about what you need at all. Aftercare is not something that should be viewed as tedious.... it should be viewed as filling a deep need after an intense experience. Checking in and at the the very least talking to someone after an intense scene is not too much to expect and, as I have said, nobody should need repeated explanations of it's importance.

Just my opinion.

_____________________________

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RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 11:37:13 AM

laurell3

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I agree and it was in fact a dealbreaker for me. Thanks for your replies.

Edited to add: I should say, I don't like to discuss my personal relationships on the forum, but he did apologize and we are still friends now. I don't want it to at all come across that he was somehow an insensitive person, he wasn't and isn't.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 11/3/2007 11:59:21 AM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to MystressDream)

Post #: 10

RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 11:37:16 AM

Tigrita

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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3
My reason for posting and part of my personal struggle with needing aftercare, which I do as I do tend to really let go, is that I'm typically very independent and not at all a high-maintenance type of person. It's frustrating to me that I need it (yeah yeah I'm not an island and working on it)

You sound exactly like me! I hate being needy and feel kind of silly needing affection, but yes it is very necessary. I think it is fine for it to be discretionary for doms as long as they make their stance clear and only play with subs with compatible expectations, and subs should be aware of and make clear their needs ahead of time to ensure this too.

~ J

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Post #: 11

RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 11:43:58 AM

Kirren

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I think that aftercare goes a long way towards building trust. I mean think about it...after sex in the vanilla world...wasnt it nice to be held? To be talked to like a person?
After care in BDSM is important because the mind and body both go thru many transitions. Pain to pleasure thresholds are met and lept over and then redefined. In many cases if it is some one who is new to the scene they have NO idea what to expect...many of the boys I have worked with I will ask repeatedly..."are you okay? Do you need a minute? Drink of water? Smoke?"
I do this because in many cases they will think that they can take much more than they can and find that they would LOVE to be a pain slut but in fact are not.

When My husband and I play, I am submissive to Him and He always spends a great deal of time holding Me and talking Me down, or running His hands over where He has flogged.

I really can not understand giving the gift of submission to some one who would not listen after repeated attempts to explain your view to them...nor can I understand a Dom/me that does not work their subs down into a more normal state by talking to them, or touch. Which ever.

Just My ideas on that.

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RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 11:47:00 AM

Kirren

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As an after thought...it doesnt matter what your independance level or strength is. BDSM is violent...its hard not to want to know that the person beating, flogging, humiliating, binding, what have you, cares for you out side of that kink, or session.
You shouldnt knock yourself for needing that. BUt be proud that you need it enuff to repeat to that person more than once that you do need it. Again, just a thought.;)

_____________________________

Everything has been said before
There's nothing left to say anymore
When it's all the same
You can ask for it by name

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RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 11:47:35 AM

thetammyjo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Oh, it's discretionary, of course. But I wouldn't think much of a Dom/me who didn't do anything in terms of aftercare. At the very minimum, I expect to be kept company until I come back to myself, and am once again in charge of my actions.

A call the next day to make sure I am still okay is also a nice touch, and leaves me feeling like I was actually with someone who gave a damn about those they played with...

...and if they didn't, I'd be sure to pass that info on (if asked for an opinion of someone) to any subs who might be thinking of playing with them. Not to be vindictive, but to give people a realistic feel of what to expect.

I fully agree with this reasoning but I'd like to point out that as with most things in human relationships it isn't a one-way dynamic.

Many tops/doms need aftercare as well especially if they are starting out because it can feel very frightening to think of what you've done later that day or the next day or the next week and you need reassurance. Because of stereotypes many tops/doms find it hard to make that need clear in negotiation or to even realize it themselves.

This is what I have done with casual or training relationships:

I provide the immediate aftercare.

The bottom/sub is required to contact me the next day to let me know how she/he is feeling.

This way we are both responsible for taking care of each other.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 11/3/2007 11:48:46 AM >

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RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 11:50:33 AM

MadameMarque

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Ideally, the partners share their feelings about aftercare, at some point before they're in a scene. Because, it really is individual, how much and what kind of aftercare a person needs. Maybe you're inexperienced, or new to the sort of scene you're headed into, and you don't really know what you'll need, after. Maybe it's all happening spontaneously, and you didn't have time to talk about it, much.

Even if you've discussed it, and even if you're experienced, I think you still have to feel it out, what's right for this moment, with this person.

But some form of aftercare is to be expected, however brief and casual or long and involved it is. Because a scene has an impact on the people involved and you are sharing it, together. And by the way, not only for the bottom/sub/masochist, either. I need lots of aftercare, after being the dominant, in a scene. That mostly consists of maintaining the connection with the other, that has been strengthened during the scene. It's very intense, you know?

Some people need to be built back up, after a scene, and others are exhilirated, if spacy and tired. One person may need to separate and be mindless, for a little while, and then rejoin their partner, and another needs constant contact, for a long time after a scene. Some people go almost straight to another scene, with another partner.

People's feelings about it vary a lot. I remember hearing two people, a domme and a submissive, talking about how their idea of aftercare after a brutal scene is not all soft and cuddly - someone's just tortured you or beaten the crap out of you, and now they want to be all hugs and nurturing? To them, that's just not right. So, for some people, that's perfect, and for others, they need something else.

Each may have their own physical needs, too - the need for protein or carbs or electrolytes or water, to be warmed or to lie down, right after.

Are you both going to continue in role, after the scene, and for how long? If you're new to each other, this might not be established. If one partner suddenly acts different, after the scene is done, that can be hard on their partner, if their partner is still in the mindset.

And, people continue to absorb the experience for hours or even a couple of days, after. A next-day check-in is ideal.

I'm not suggesting you have to talk all this out, in advance. Though it can be good to know, in advance, those things that a person is likely to need, afterwards, you're still going to have to play it as it lays, each time.

(in reply to laurell3)

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RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 12:08:20 PM

MadameMarque

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

[clipped] ...I'd like to point out that as with most things in human relationships it isn't a one-way dynamic.

Many tops/doms need aftercare as well especially if they are starting out because it can feel very frightening to think of what you've done later that day or the next day or the next week and you need reassurance. Because of stereotypes many tops/doms find it hard to make that need clear in negotiation or to even realize it themselves.

This is what I have done with casual or training relationships:

I provide the immediate aftercare.

The bottom/sub is required to contact me the next day to let me know how she/he is feeling.

This way we are both responsible for taking care of each other.

The sex educator, Midori, remarked, during a workshop of hers, that aftercare for a dominant is knowing that you still like us, after all the things we've done to you. :)

"You're a ba-a-ad girl."

"Mmm. You'll find out."

- from I'm No Angel, screenplay by Mae West

< Message edited by MadameMarque -- 11/3/2007 12:10:26 PM >

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RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 12:36:05 PM

PairOfDimes

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What you do after you stop hitting/binding/fucking/whatever is up to the people involved. Both, or all, people involved. Thus they should talk about it and figure out what they want to do.

Some people want to snuggle. Some people want to talk, either about the scene or about other stuff. Some people want to be left alone. Some people want aftercare that looks like a scene--that is, after a scene that hasn't really focused in bondage, they want to be put in restrictive bondage (which can be a scene in its own right, but for these folks is processed as a conclusion). Some submissives want to provide service for dominants--these people are especially nice, as giving me a backrub is a lovely reassurance that you still like me even though I've just done all sorts of mean things to you. And, you know, backrubs are nice. Lots of people want to eat--or maybe I just hang out with a bunch of gluttons. :) It's a compromise and a negotiation, and it's good to have at least a little talk about it before you play with someone new, if only to make scheduling less painful. (Also, with intermittent playmates, I often need to be reminded. If we played in March, and now it's August and we're playing again, I've almost certainly had other scenes between, so you will need to tell me again that you get nonverbal after playing, just as you'll need to remind me that you hate knives and love canes.)

I think the term 'aftercare' can be a bit misleading, and, of course, it's bad to assume that everyone needs some emotional connection. Sometimes 'care' isn't what people want after a heavy humiliation scene, or a scene in which the headspace is indifferent cruelty--yes, for some people, expressions of fondness are vital, but for others they disturb whatever they found satisfying about the scene.

I'm generally happy to do snuggly stuff or to do leaving-alone stuff, and I can usually meet a bottom halfway. I'm much better at talking in a normal, moderately joking way with some physical contact, and that's typically what I want after a scene. (Yes, doms want to do certain things after playing too.) I do get irritated when a person who bottomed to me for a playful, light ten-minute spanking at a party expects an hour of pampering and snuggling as his due, but that doesn't happen much anymore, and I'm much better at extricating myself from those surprises than I used to be.

(in reply to laurell3)

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RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 12:57:40 PM

kyraofMists

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For me, aftercare is not something that I usually want. Every once and a while I will want it and it will be very beneficial to easing out of play. This usually happens when the play hits on an emotionally sensitive spot. Most of the time all I want is to help me sit down and get me something to drink. If I am flying high, I find aftercare to be distracting. A good play will energize me and to sit and cuddle just kills the buzz.

Knight's Kyra

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RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 1:01:45 PM

bipolarber

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tammyjo,

Well, what can I say? When you are right, you are right. The Dom/me needs some support after a good scene too. No one likes to put someone through a wringer, and then be suddenly left in the cold. (They might take it as a rejection, which means they might not want to do it again... and again... and again...) Besides, no one wants to be thought of as a "support system for a whip." Always recognize, and appreciate the person who just took you to the mountaintop.

Joe

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Post #: 19

RE: Aftercare: discretionary or necessary? - 11/3/2007 1:14:45 PM

HumiliateherUK

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Whilst I don't think aftercare is mandatory, from a personal perspective its something I always provide and to me a vital part of any scene.

I don't tend to play with those I don't like and I do tend to play in some deep waters, so if I like someone then I want to be there for them as they come back, and for them to know how much the experience meant to me.

Its true some don't like it and also several people in this thread have mentioned aftercare for the Dom. I did once have a partner who would pull away and really just wanted to be left alone to process things on her own. I personally hated that so for me I suppose giving that care IS giving me what I need afterwards. With regards to longer term, calling the next day etc then again just from a personal perspective if I play with someone then we tend to already be in more or less daily contact so I would not expect that to change after a scene.

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 20

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