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RE: True Masochist - 11/6/2007 2:31:42 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavemaia
Just what would you call a person who repeated sabotages their own life and well being then?


Well, I wouldn't call them a masochist. I would probably be inclined to say that they may have a Self Defeating Personality Disorder...at least it would be at the top of my list to further investigate. Or maybe they could just be a drama queen. There are plenty of people who are so used to living in chaos that when life is going smoothly they have to do something to screw it up...so that it feels more normal to them.

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RE: True Masochist - 11/6/2007 2:32:19 PM   
slavemaia


Posts: 395
Joined: 8/26/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

from what i can gather, it appears not many really understand the term true masochist

That's because it does not exist except in the understanding of information that you have gathered about yourself.
quote:

  i've been doing some study and research on this since i have been a true masochist most of my life and am learning to work my way out of it.

Yippeee.... Let's throw a party
quote:

  a true masochist is an expert at creating ways to bring about real, unpleasant suffering in their lives.

You say this, claiming that you yourself are a true masochist and yet, you also state that
quote:

  my desire for pain is just erotocism

Are you saying that in your research, you have discovered that wanting and needing erotic pain is nothing more than a cry for help? That wanting and needing erotic pain, and eagerly and willingly reaching for that; is actually just an illusion? That the reality is that we are so unhappy that we are 'creating unpleasant suffering' in our own lives?

Is that what you are saying?

You are fucking whacked girl.


WOW! Just glad i don't live inside your skin. Must be difficult getting so whacked out so easily. And you know what i am how? Geesh.

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RE: True Masochist - 11/6/2007 2:35:33 PM   
IrishMist


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Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

Must be difficult getting so whacked out so easily

I would not know, personally. I just call bull shit when I see it.

quote:

  And you know what i am how? Geesh.


Your own words honey... your own words.

I take it you are NOT going to answer the questions I posed. Suit yourself.


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RE: True Masochist - 11/6/2007 2:37:07 PM   
slavemaia


Posts: 395
Joined: 8/26/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavemaia
Just what would you call a person who repeated sabotages their own life and well being then?


Well, I wouldn't call them a masochist. I would probably be inclined to say that they may have a Self Defeating Personality Disorder...at least it would be at the top of my list to further investigate. Or maybe they could just be a drama queen. There are plenty of people who are so used to living in chaos that when life is going smoothly they have to do something to screw it up...so that it feels more normal to them.


Ah, that makes alot of sense. And it nicely separates things more at least in my head. Thank you kindly, mistoferin, for your response.

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She reaches up, not for the apple, but for what causes it to be there.
slave to love - - Chairman's maia

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RE: True Masochist - 11/6/2007 2:38:39 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavemaia
Just as a true sadist is one who derives pleasure from the real, non consentual suffering of another, a true masochist is an expert at creating ways to bring about real, unpleasant suffering in their lives. For example a true masochist may repeatedly and quite unconsciously find ways to get fired from a job, lose a relationship they really desire, do things to create illness in their life, get into car accidents frequently or something else that creates real suffering and hardship for them. 
 
 


No... a Sadist is not someone that derives Pleasure from the real.. NON-consentual suffering of another.

A Sadist is someone that derives Pleasure from the pain and suffering of another.

Now... an Ehtical Sadist will very much derive pleasure from the Consentual pain and suffering of another

And... an UNethical Sadist will very much derive pleasure from the NON-consentual pain and suffering of another.

Your idea of what a "True" Masocist is can only be described as being just as truly wrong as your idea of what a True Sadist is.



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RE: True Masochist - 11/6/2007 2:52:52 PM   
slavemaia


Posts: 395
Joined: 8/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

Must be difficult getting so whacked out so easily

I would not know, personally. I just call bull shit when I see it.

quote:

  And you know what i am how? Geesh.


Your own words honey... your own words.

I take it you are NOT going to answer the questions I posed. Suit yourself.



What would be the point? i made the mistake of posting a topic here, thinking it would be interesting. Well, guess i learned didn't i? my own personal journey has brought up some questions is all. If i didn't dot my i's and cross my t's well then excuse me to those of you who are offended.

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She reaches up, not for the apple, but for what causes it to be there.
slave to love - - Chairman's maia

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: True Masochist - 11/6/2007 3:15:33 PM   
daddyncherry


Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		i don't see anything really wrong with her posted definition (except for using the dreaded "true" word...just to satisfy my own mind i looked up masochism on dictionary .com and found this

mas·och·ism      /ˈmæsəˌkɪzəm, ˈmæz-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mas-uh-kiz-uhm, maz-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.Psychiatry. the condition in which sexual gratification depends on suffering, physical pain, and humiliation. 2.gratification gained from pain, deprivation, degradation, etc., inflicted or imposed on oneself, either as a result of one's own actions or the actions of others, esp. the tendency to seek this form of gratification. 3.the act of turning one's destructive tendencies inward or upon oneself. 4.the tendency to find pleasure in self-denial, submissiveness, etc.


i don't see where the examples she posted were so far off. Sure, they sound more like mental or emotional masochism...where a cutter would be more of a physical masochist.

Doesn't mean that all masochists are the same...wired the same. Some are trained to take pain, and learn to enjoy it. Does that mean they are masochists? Or are they trained pain sluts?

i'm curious not being sarcastic.


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Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: True Masochist - 11/6/2007 3:33:19 PM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDaddyZ

The word "true" when it comes to the lifestyle squicks a lot of us out as mentioned in numerous threads before.

The only thing true about me is I'm black and one day, I'll die.



Hmmm...You look cocoa brown to me...grin


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Elegant
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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: True Masochist - 11/6/2007 3:41:04 PM   
DarkDaddyZ


Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDaddyZ

The word "true" when it comes to the lifestyle squicks a lot of us out as mentioned in numerous threads before.

The only thing true about me is I'm black and one day, I'll die.



Hmmm...You look cocoa brown to me...grin


LOL! Hey Archer are you going to take that!
Bittersweet, that's me

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: True Masochist - 11/7/2007 2:22:01 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavemaia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

My thoughts?  Crap.
If your assertion was 'true' then none of these people here, including yourself, can claim to be a slave. 
 
the.dark.

 
Hmmm - interesting - and you're an expert how? There was no assertion, no definition, just pure ideas, concepts. Touchy touchy.


Never said I was an expert and you never asked for an experts POV.  You asked for thoughts on what you wrote, I said I thought your statement was crap.  Seems pretty straight forward to me.
I believe you are the touchy one by being so defensive.
 
You have posted an old clinical definition.  A 'true' masochist doesn't exist.  Just as 'true' submissives do not, or true liberals. Because the term is subjective.  You are correct in the sense that from a psycological and old medical sense -  do not care whether the pain is consensual - moreoften it isn't consensual - in the ancient sense.  It is a psychiatric disorder that results in sexual satisfaction.  So if losing your job makes you orgasm or having a car accident makes you cum - that would make you a masochist.  But that isn't what you were describing.  What you describe is someone who is self destructive.
 
Hence slave.  By using your definition, there would be no slaves.(As explained in one way by Aqua) - which was my point.
 
But you only asked for the thoughts on what you posted, so I gave it.  You didn't like?  Tough  I don't often do disclaimers - and if you knew me, you would know my qualifications on the subject, but you don't - just as you do not know anyones in particular - as I do not know yours - which is why I kept to your question-

quote:

But is enjoyment true masochism?
Just thought i'd put this out there for others' thoughts. Hmmmm???



And it's still crap.
 
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 11/7/2007 2:26:26 AM >

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RE: True Masochist - 11/7/2007 2:29:10 AM   
SottoVoce


Posts: 13
Joined: 5/26/2007
Status: offline 		The term "True" just shuts out so many people who might be of a different opinion or make up than your definition.

I don't make such calls, it is a waste of effort, I know when I slap her face and she smiles at me- stretching that pretty neck up for more- Then I know.

Until then, I don't worry about it.

Most things come out in the wash.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: True Masochist - 11/7/2007 5:44:57 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SottoVoce

Most things come out in the wash.


Not pairs of socks.  Only if you hand wash...
 
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: True Masochist - 11/7/2007 5:53:13 AM   
SottoVoce


Posts: 13
Joined: 5/26/2007
Status: offline 		Socks were created by the universe to satisfy the need for SOMETHING to exist that was on both sides of the rules-
One sock is for order, it is found at the bottom of the drum.

The other symbolizes chaos and just-

disappears...

WIthout ratinal explanation.

It's a fundamental thing.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: True Masochist - 11/7/2007 5:59:48 AM   
darkesttdesire


Posts: 25
Joined: 10/11/2007
Status: offline 		Hmmm - sorry, don't recall stating this is a definition, simply a concept, an idea that i've discovered as a result of my own self-relfection and studying some of Karen Horney's writings. i certainly do not claim to be an expert by any means. Just what would you call a person who repeated sabotages their own life and well being then?

Insecure???

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RE: True Masochist - 11/7/2007 6:21:31 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:


What would be the point? i made the mistake of posting a topic here, thinking it would be interesting. Well, guess i learned didn't i? my own personal journey has brought up some questions is all. If i didn't dot my i's and cross my t's well then excuse me to those of you who are offended.


So far, the only person offended, sweetie, is you.  You did post an interesting topic, see all the responses you got?  The only problem is that you posted with the hope and expectation that everyone would accept your definitions and not disagree with your thoughts.  That's really impossible on a site such as this where most people have a mind of their own and are so diverse in their ideas and beliefs.
 
In the future, I suggest that you avoid absolutes and the word TRUE.  In this lifestyle there are no absolutes accepted by all.  What there is here on the CMMB, is a vastly diverse group of relatively openminded people who like to share their own opinions and thoughts and experiences.
 
As for my opinion on the issue, there are lots of people who routinely fuck up their own lives.  They may or may not consider themselves masochists, they may or may not be masochists.  There are just too many other possibilities to define them as anything without knowledge of their specific background and situation.
 
I am a sadist, and I take issue with your definition of a "true" sadist.  As Knight said, there are ethical and unethical sadists, and neither is more true than the other.

< Message edited by yourMissTress -- 11/7/2007 6:22:43 AM >

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RE: True Masochist - 11/7/2007 6:27:14 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavemaia

i see this term used frequently, yet, from what i can gather, it appears not many really understand the term true masochist i've been doing some study and research on this since i have been a true masochist most of my life and am learning to work my way out of it. my desire for pain is just erotocism. It may have very little or nothing to do with true masochism. i say this in regard to myself only and don't mean it as a generalization for all those who enjoy pain. But is enjoyment true masochism?
 
Just as a true sadist is one who derives pleasure from the real, non consentual suffering of another, a true masochist is an expert at creating ways to bring about real, unpleasant suffering in their lives. For example a true masochist may repeatedly and quite unconsciously find ways to get fired from a job, lose a relationship they really desire, do things to create illness in their life, get into car accidents frequently or something else that creates real suffering and hardship for them. 
 
 Just thought i'd put this out there for others' thoughts. Hmmmm???


My thought is simply this....there are masochists that derive pleasure from humiliation. There are masochists that derive pleasure from erotic pain. Cutters are not always masochists, nor are people that fail due to fear of success. These behaviors lack the sexual element inherent in "twue" masochism. Now I am sure that there are those masochists that love drama and chaos, but that is not an essential element to masochism, which seems implied by your post.

I do not cut, last time I looked I have stable relationships with friends and family. I flee drama. I have a successful vocation that I am working actively in...yet  I consider myself a masochist. I am sure that there are some masochists out there that exhibit this behavior in a self destructive way, but I do not. I feed my inner masochist with pain that is productive... like at the gym.

My problem with your post is that it negates masochism and reduces it to something unhealthy, it does not have to be. I am proof of this. To me pain is a spiritual thing, an erotic thing, a pleasurable thing, and I am very happy and fulfilled in my masochism. I am also not ashamed of it

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RE: True Masochist - 11/7/2007 6:40:16 AM   
enchainee


Posts: 15
Status: offline 		The APA has recatogorized masochism. Now its"truely" its not a mental disorder Have fun! 

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: True Masochist - 11/7/2007 6:49:54 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: enchainee

The APA has recatogorized masochism. Now its"truely" its not a mental disorder Have fun! 



I went to the gym with Sinergy for the first time yesterday...I have no doubt that he is a sadist after that

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: True Masochist - 11/7/2007 6:51:01 AM   
enchainee


Posts: 15
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: enchainee

The APA has recatogorized masochism. Now its"truely" its not a mental disorder Have fun! 



I went to the gym with Sinergy for the first time yesterday...I have no doubt that he is a sadist after that



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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: True Masochist - 11/7/2007 6:51:08 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		i think most of you all here have been harsh with the op. She brought up a topic for discussion. Nothing in her op said what she researched or discovered was written in stone. She wanted to share what she found and see what others thought. Sh did not offer it as "the definition" or even her definition, and she was insulted and in general treated harshly. This isn't conducive to open minded discussion, i think the topic is interesting and think masochism surpasses the boudaries of getting whacked and saying ow and cumming.  Where do emotional masochists, which plenty of submissives talk about come into play?  Is everyone saying all masochists must find erotic pleasure in their masochism or the activity isn't satisfying their masochism?  Why is everyone so quick to jump on curious minds? 

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Profile   Post #: 40
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