quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i think most of you all here have been harsh with the op. She brought up a topic for discussion. Nothing in her op said what she researched or discovered was written in stone. She wanted to share what she found and see what others thought. Sh did not offer it as "the definition" or even her definition, and she was insulted and in general treated harshly. This isn't conducive to open minded discussion, i think the topic is interesting and think masochism surpasses the boudaries of getting whacked and saying ow and cumming.  Where do emotional masochists, which plenty of submissives talk about come into play?  Is everyone saying all masochists must find erotic pleasure in their masochism or the activity isn't satisfying their masochism?  Why is everyone so quick to jump on curious minds? 

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  a true masochist is an expert at creating ways to bring about real, unpleasant suffering in their lives. For example a true masochist may repeatedly and quite unconsciously find ways to get fired from a job, lose a relationship they really desire, do things to create illness in their life, get into car accidents frequently or something else that creates real suffering and hardship for them. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i think most of you all here have been harsh with the op. She brought up a topic for discussion. Nothing in her op said what she researched or discovered was written in stone. She wanted to share what she found and see what others thought. Sh did not offer it as "the definition" or even her definition, and she was insulted and in general treated harshly. This isn't conducive to open minded discussion, i think the topic is interesting and think masochism surpasses the boudaries of getting whacked and saying ow and cumming.  Where do emotional masochists, which plenty of submissives talk about come into play?  Is everyone saying all masochists must find erotic pleasure in their masochism or the activity isn't satisfying their masochism?  Why is everyone so quick to jump on curious minds? 

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ORIGINAL: slavemaia

i see this term used frequently, yet, from what i can gather, it appears not many really understand the term true masochist i've been doing some study and research on this since i have been a true masochist most of my life and am learning to work my way out of it. my desire for pain is just erotocism. It may have very little or nothing to do with true masochism. i say this in regard to myself only and don't mean it as a generalization for all those who enjoy pain. But is enjoyment true masochism?
 
Just as a true sadist is one who derives pleasure from the real, non consentual suffering of another, a true masochist is an expert at creating ways to bring about real, unpleasant suffering in their lives. For example a true masochist may repeatedly and quite unconsciously find ways to get fired from a job, lose a relationship they really desire, do things to create illness in their life, get into car accidents frequently or something else that creates real suffering and hardship for them. 
 
 Just thought i'd put this out there for others' thoughts. Hmmmm???

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i think most of you all here have been harsh with the op. She brought up a topic for discussion. Nothing in her op said what she researched or discovered was written in stone. She wanted to share what she found and see what others thought. Sh did not offer it as "the definition" or even her definition, and she was insulted and in general treated harshly. This isn't conducive to open minded discussion, i think the topic is interesting and think masochism surpasses the boudaries of getting whacked and saying ow and cumming.  Where do emotional masochists, which plenty of submissives talk about come into play?  Is everyone saying all masochists must find erotic pleasure in their masochism or the activity isn't satisfying their masochism?  Why is everyone so quick to jump on curious minds? 

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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ORIGINAL: enchainee

The APA has recatogorized masochism. Now its"truely" its not a mental disorder Have fun! 

I went to the gym with Sinergy for the first time yesterday...I have no doubt that he is a sadist after that

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ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

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ORIGINAL: slavemaia

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ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

My thoughts?  Crap.
If your assertion was 'true' then none of these people here, including yourself, can claim to be a slave. 
 
the.dark.

 
Hmmm - interesting - and you're an expert how? There was no assertion, no definition, just pure ideas, concepts. Touchy touchy.

Never said I was an expert and you never asked for an experts POV.  You asked for thoughts on what you wrote, I said I thought your statement was crap.  Seems pretty straight forward to me.
I believe you are the touchy one by being so defensive.
 
You have posted an old clinical definition.  A 'true' masochist doesn't exist.  Just as 'true' submissives do not, or true liberals. Because the term is subjective.  You are correct in the sense that from a psycological and old medical sense -  do not care whether the pain is consensual - moreoften it isn't consensual - in the ancient sense.  It is a psychiatric disorder that results in sexual satisfaction.  So if losing your job makes you orgasm or having a car accident makes you cum - that would make you a masochist.  But that isn't what you were describing.  What you describe is someone who is self destructive.
 
Hence slave.  By using your definition, there would be no slaves.(As explained in one way by Aqua) - which was my point.
 
But you only asked for the thoughts on what you posted, so I gave it.  You didn't like?  Tough  I don't often do disclaimers - and if you knew me, you would know my qualifications on the subject, but you don't - just as you do not know anyones in particular - as I do not know yours - which is why I kept to your question-

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But is enjoyment true masochism?
Just thought i'd put this out there for others' thoughts. Hmmmm???

And it's still crap.
 
the.dark.

LMAO - o fiddle dee dee, said Scarlette - I can't think about it today - I'll think about it tomorrow!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

What i saw in her op differs - i saw someone who was searching for answers to something and she came to CM to get other opinions.  i think if she used the word "clinical" instead of "true" she would have gotten a better reception. 

julia i too am a masochist and i agree with you we are all different in what we like, the levels of pain, types of pain we enjoy, etc.  i see the op as wanting to understand masochism - maybe hers specifically - in a different light.  i didn't take it to mean that we are all the same or that she was saying this is the way all masochist operate.  Interesting how we all can read the same post yet have different interpretations of it and the intentions of what's said. 

 Thank you velvetears - this was my true intention (oops, there's that word again).

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavemaia
To those of you who responded with civility and grace - i applaud you and thank you. To those of you who didn't - well - you didn't. oh well.

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ORIGINAL: slavemaia

Well, thank you, all of you. It's been quite interesting getting to observe the different temperaments here. Some have been open and receptive to thoughts, ideas. Others have responded as though my words were meant as some attack against them personally and felt it was necessary to "correct" me. i never dreamed an invitation to share thoughts would reap a barrage of . . . . . hmmmm - don't know actually what to call it.
 
For the record i chose the word "true", not literally. Simply to mean there appears to be something inherently masochistic or self-sabotaging in some people (not referring to anyone here) who create havoc and chaos in their lives or do very self-sabotaging things. These things create actual suffering and misery for that person. So i find it curious and wondered, perhaps --- PERHAPS, this is real or true masochism since it's not by conscious choice but just how a person functions in their world. This is in contrast to the conscious, volitional and controlled form of masochism that's common in this lifestyle (OMG do i have to back this up with a catalogue of references and evidence?) So i thought perhaps "true" masochism was not deliberate, intentional or even conscious and used the word "true" simply as an attempt to differentiate between what is consciously invited and what is unconsciously invited. It's okay IrishMist  and the dark if you can't follow this. i understand.

i admit i got a tad testy because i was quite stunned at some of the responses and so i apologize. i did feel there was no reason for the words "whacked out". And CRAP seemed a bit strong. But so what. i mean really - so what. i don't know any of you. Hmmmm - best just leave it at that - ha. i shared some thoughts, a perspective. Some took it gracefully and others decided it was a call to arms.
 
To those of you who responded with civility and grace - i applaud you and thank you. To those of you who didn't - well - you didn't. oh well.

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It's okay IrishMist  and the dark if you can't follow this. i understand

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ORIGINAL: IrishMist

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It's okay IrishMist  and the dark if you can't follow this. i understand

I was actually going to respond to what you wrote in this post; and even go so far as to say thank you for finally elaborating a bit... and then you wrote this.

Fuck you and the high horse you reside on

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Just as a true sadist is one who derives pleasure from the real, non consentual suffering of another, a true masochist is an expert at creating ways to bring about real, unpleasant suffering in their lives. For example a true masochist may repeatedly and quite unconsciously find ways to get fired from a job, lose a relationship they really desire, do things to create illness in their life, get into car accidents frequently or something else that creates real suffering and hardship for them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

So i thought perhaps "true" masochism was not deliberate, intentional or even conscious and used the word "true" simply as an attempt to differentiate between what is consciously invited and what is unconsciously invited. It's okay IrishMist  and the dark if you can't follow this. i understand.

Yes I follow it - I did from the beginning.  It's no biggy.  Whether concious or unconcious thought goes into masochism matters not, because you are working on a concluesion that has been out of date medical and social circles for many years and is exactly how people stereotype both masochists and sadists and uses this outdated thought as a means to undermine their orientation.
 
I am trying to have a worthwhile and sincere discussion with you despite your sarcastic remarks, but your passive aggressive stance is losing your point.  I was not rude, I was being frank (and frank didn't mind for a moment).  I never threw any personal insults your way or took the piss on anything you wrote.  You asked, I answered - without flowers or fluffed up words.  Just because I did not agree does not lessen your points or thoughts in any way - only your own behaviour does that.  It does not lessen mine either.
And mine were and still are - that what you wrote was crap.
 
the.dark.