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RE: True Masochist - 11/8/2007 9:02:39 AM   
slavemaia


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Joined: 8/26/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

It's okay IrishMist  and the dark if you can't follow this. i understand

I was actually going to respond to what you wrote in this post; and even go so far as to say thank you for finally elaborating a bit... and then you wrote this.

Fuck you and the high horse you reside on


i have no desire to create hostility here or anywhere else. Yes, i got defensive and sarcastic. i do apologize.

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: True Masochist - 11/8/2007 9:51:01 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavemaia

Regarding your redundant use of the word "crap". Personally, i think there's less aggressive ways of saying you disagree or question my statements. But that's my preference. i prefer a softer approach. Your response was the first one to my post and i was stunned by your strong statement. The real mistake i made was in becoming reactive and feeling the need to defend myself. The written word leaves much to interpretation always. So i offer my sincere apology for my sarcasm.


Yes, words all mean different things.  I did think of writing 'rubbish' - but that just seemed dismissive to me.  I could have put bullshit, but that seemed too harsh and a bit rude.
So I put crap - meh - I'm a Londoner - it seemed pretty inoffensive to me, but strong - yes, which was my intention, to just get my message across straight and to the point with as little jargon as possible (I have been told I waffle sometimes...).  I guess it's just all cultural or regional differences hey.  I do appriciate your apology and add that I hope this is all cleared up now and you now don't take offense to my words as there is none intended.
 
And I'll endeavour to find a better word...
 
the.dark.

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RE: True Masochist - 11/8/2007 11:31:30 AM   
IrishMist


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Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

i have no desire to create hostility here or anywhere else. Yes, i got defensive and sarcastic. i do apologize.

Apology accepted.

I, too, apologize for the very graphic expression that I used.

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: True Masochist - 11/8/2007 3:43:24 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

i have no desire to create hostility here or anywhere else. Yes, i got defensive and sarcastic. i do apologize.

Apology accepted.

I, too, apologize for the very graphic expression that I used.



aaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwww  lets have a group hug................

mmmmmmmmmmm and don't mind the hands... they tend to wander at hugging time

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: True Masochist - 11/8/2007 4:24:54 PM   
IrishMist


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quote:

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwww  lets have a group hug................

mmmmmmmmmmm and don't mind the hands... they tend to wander at hugging time

LMAo

what about our hands? can they wander?



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If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: True Masochist - 11/9/2007 4:19:52 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwww  lets have a group hug................

mmmmmmmmmmm and don't mind the hands... they tend to wander at hugging time

LMAo

what about our hands? can they wander?




QFT

...oh yes...
 
the.dark

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: True Masochist - 11/9/2007 5:00:16 AM   
Prinsexx


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Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavemaia
 For example a true masochist may repeatedly and quite unconsciously find ways to get fired from a job, lose a relationship they really desire, do things to create illness in their life, get into car accidents frequently or something else that creates real suffering and hardship for them. 
 
 Just thought i'd put this out there for others' thoughts. Hmmmm???


I'm not going to negate your OP. It has made me think deeply. Here's my personal opinion.  Yes we can define for clinical purposes. But clinical defintions are not infallible they are just noirms and norms change. Which is why the DSM gets text revisions. The labels get pressured from the pressure groups, the so called valid tests get changed and the DSM gets changed. Much like revised visions of the Bible really.
Also: the word 'true' I have difficulty with...as the only definition of true is what is true for you, and what is true for me. Truth is experiential. And therefore group truth is only what gets the consensus of opinion.
Also subconscious...how do we know anything (by definition) of what we do subcomsciously. Reification, objectification of the ego and its mechanisms is meaningless to me unless it enqables a shift to be made towards insight and awareness and enlightenment (work of Tolle on the ego).
But with regard to masochism being extended beyond the physical?
Yes yes yes and yes agin i have to agree I do that terrible masochistic extension of what I crave in play into other areas of my life.
I still have the deep bruising from two nights ago and I walked away from the Dom who did it....see my thread on commitment knowing that he is a 'true' sadist and yes his behaviours towards me also extend beyong the physical.
But I have responsibilities and kids and a job and many lives dpending i=on me. And so. regardless of the emotional pain today I did it for my own safety. (I like emotional pain anyway...up to a point).
I doid it for my own safety as you know....sane, consensual and safe?
Safety is the most difficult dimension to obtain in a 'truly' sado-masochistic relationship.
Having said that it's quite a revolutionary quote accordning to some for a therapist like me to say, as I imply 'true' sado-masochism as sane.
Thanks for the inspiration.


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RE: True Masochist - 11/9/2007 10:41:09 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:



what about our hands? can they wander?


If they don't you are going to have to change your nick to IrishCold



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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: True Masochist - 11/9/2007 11:17:15 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		/perks up

well hot dayum...it's my lucky day... I get free range with the hands



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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: True Masochist - 11/11/2007 11:08:51 AM   
danae


Posts: 46
Joined: 1/2/2004
Status: offline 		as perhaps the conversation is winding down, one late observation might be.. to the responders.. did not the masochist get exactly what she wanted (by her stated definition) from the group?

but seriously, knowing too well what a squicky word it is, replace "true" with "pathological"  in the original question and i think the conversation would have gone so much differently. 


slavemaia:  the understanding i gathered from your original post is that you have felt a distressing sense of your 'masochism'  (others may have helped you re-define that as self-defeating or -negating behaviors) for much of your life; and yet, a definition that you have been working yourself out of, because you now do appreciate that it is the concious ability to eroticize pain and thus making it more personally acceptable to you;  and that is what i would assume most of your respondents might say is the "true" masochist rather than pathological..  but that is just me ;>

danae [Zeus]

ps.
this is an extremely literate and intelligent group, i am impressed when theoretical discussions actually might quote such female sexuality sources as Horney.. but, she's nearly Freudian..  and that doesn't so much mix with this group and current DSM categories..  but it sure doesn't mean that there isn't meat for discussion. 


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danae [Zeus]

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(not the same danae of 2004/2005 postings)

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: True Masochist - 11/11/2007 12:41:32 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavemaia 
For example a true masochist may repeatedly and quite unconsciously find ways to get fired from a job, lose a relationship they really desire, do things to create illness in their life, get into car accidents frequently or something else that creates real suffering and hardship 


Actually, the definition refers to my exhusband, who I affectionately call, "The Creature."


We see these people in day to day life.. some of us are unfortunate enough to have lived with them.. and attemped to love them. My Son's father is the very same type of "person" ~ He thinks he had a mentaly scarring childhood because he mother never bought as much of a certain type of cheese that was his favorite as he thought she should.. and wouldnt cut up his meat off of the bone after he reached a certain age (14). ( oh the horrors.. what a monster. ) You simply reconize these type of people will never be happy, and you move as far out of thier speres of infulance as you possibly can so they don't contaminate yours. My dear friend who was going to be a sub wife is very much the same. She is never satisfied untill all around her is as miserable as she makes herself. Not a healthy person.

I think there are many ideas of "True" this or that. Mayhaps "Clinical" would have been a better term.. I know I flinch a bit inside when I see "True" in any posting.. and kinda roll my eyes.

But as to the OP's idea I think these type of people are masocists.. but are also mentaly damaged and emotionaly damaged/damaging people.

Who wants to deal with a whack job who only is pleased when everyone is unhappy and miserable? Not I.

Gwyn

< Message edited by Gwynvyd -- 11/11/2007 12:50:19 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: True Masochist - 11/11/2007 8:37:06 PM   
kitttty


Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline 		On the bright side, Master has helped me use my ubiquitous masochism for my own improvement.

Like lately Ive been slacking at the gym. I felt bloated and out of shape, but when I weighed myself, I was 101 lbs, which gives me very little motivation to bother working out consistently. So, I asked the master to tell me that I looked fat so that i would have a reason to work out harder. Unfortunately, he didn't tell me i looked fat, but i am at least under the belief that he would like my physique more if i were more fit.

And Master stated my lsat goal as 170 (after i suggested it), which is really high and this forces me to work hard at studying for it. i also gives me something to agonize over since it will be pretty hard for me to achieve that score.

But these are ways that my pursuit of pain and suffering can result in me bettering myself. But i need Master for it to work.

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: True Masochist - 11/11/2007 9:00:03 PM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		I would define a "true masochist" as someone who can read all the sub-vs.-slave threads and then, wanting more, move on to the fat ones.

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: True Masochist - 11/11/2007 10:22:47 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I would define a "true masochist" as someone who can read all the sub-vs.-slave threads and then, wanting more, move on to the fat ones.

There we have it !!!!!!!



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If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


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Profile   Post #: 74
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