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RE: D/s sisterhood - 11/10/2007 9:11:54 AM

sakidorei

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Lucky Albatross, i think you can always find what you look for. ~smiles~ If you look for commonality you find it. If you look for differences you find them.

We don't see it the same way. That's ok ... i shared my views. You shared yours. Mine are right for me ... which was how i answered the question. Yours are right for you and while you don't agree ... it doesn't negate or affirm either of our positions. We are speaking of personal perspectives and convictions.

i see all slaves and subs as having a common bond or understanding that is NOT experienced in the 'nilla world therefore the term does not bother me overmuch. i don't use it myself ... though i tend to look at the common denominator rather than the implied intimacy of biological connection when people use it with me. That's all ... no big debate here for me really. It's just how -i- process it and choose to understand it.

It's much like the early feminist movement or other organizations ... sisters or brothers in a cause. Or how people of a particular race might call each other brother or sister because they have threads of a common experience. They generally -get- certain things about each other that outsiders just don't get. ~shrugs~ As i said ... you can look at something and see the positive or look at something and choose to see the differences ... just how we are as people.

~saki
Property of Master D.

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RE: D/s sisterhood - 11/10/2007 9:12:55 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sakidorei

meh ... we are sisters of a -common- meaning, unique experience. To me this does not imply relationship nor intimacy as much as a common bond that the 'nilla world just doesn't get. In a way D/s or M/s does lend itself to a secret brotherhood/sisterhood of those who -get- it. Just look at the thread about -coming out- to family and friends. We exist in a limited subculture that is barely tolerated and generally misunderstood by the general public.

That depends on where you are and what you do. While I did say on that thread that I am not out to my parents, almost everyone else knows that I am in a d/s relationship. This includes my friends and my teachers and the other students at the college. I guess keeping it a secret is kinda hard when you do presentations on BDSM safety and use pics of yourself in the powerpoint.

Except for a few isolated experiences, I have found people to be respectful as long as I wasn't throwing my sexuality and my relationship in their face.

quote:

In that way we share a common understanding or as some people say it ... bond. Though we all are unique individuals with unique practices to our kink or relationships ... we do have a basic understanding or commonality that surpasss the 'nilla world. It's from that context that i generally assume people are drawing when they use words like sister.

That still doesn't make sense to me. For this to apply, we would enjoy the same things. Some of us here don't enjoy kink at all, just the power dynamic. And some don't enjoy the power dynamic - just the kink. Some d/s folk never move beyond tickling with a feather and others break bones on purpose. Some of us will retain all our legal freedoms till the end but others will have nothing that they could point to as theirs in a court of law. The huge variety of different ways to do what we do seems to dissolve that sisterhood to me. I don't have a lot in common (d/s wise) with the slave or submissive who has her bones broken for fun and never leaves the house. I have no doubt that they are wonderful people and we could certainly have tons in common in other areas of life but just not in the d/s forum.

quote:

We come here and talk to each other because we share basic understandings about our lives, needs, choices, hopes and desires. We certainly can't talk about it just anywhere.

No you can't. Almost any topic has it's time and place. But that doesn't automatically give me some sort of kinship with every female submissive/slave out there. And to repeat the question that LA asked, why aren't male submissives/slaves included in this?

quote:

In the end though, there are more things to spend my time and energy on than worrying about a word or a term it doesn't harm me and a hundred other more important things come up in a day's time that need my real focus.

I highly doubt that any of us are sitting around and stewing in anger over this. I'm not at least. But when the topic comes up, this in my opinion. It's an annoyence and I find the presuming of a relationship rude, like when someone will call you "Honey" or "Sweetie" during a debate.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 11/10/2007 9:13:30 AM >

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RE: D/s sisterhood - 11/10/2007 9:12:58 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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You see differences as negative?

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RE: D/s sisterhood - 11/10/2007 9:25:21 AM

sakidorei

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Lucky Albatross, no i don't always see differences as negative. i do see that you used differences to negate a positive or affirming experience that might be shared (in the context of invalidating my post) and therefore i choose to equate commonality with positive and differences as negative as in non-affirming for the sake of the discussion.

Really ... i've stated my position and you've stated yours. i am not likely to change your mind and you aren't likely to change mine. i respect your views and don't agree. You can or can not respect mine. i see no need to parce out a post about one's perception or opinion on something like this just to argue ad nauseum. i don't think there's a need for semantic gymnastics here. It's just apparent that we don't agree. No sweat!

Aquaticsub, i don't think the whole of your logic is valid here but that's ok. Yes some like power exchange and some like kink ... but what i mean is ... we are far more likely here to understand what each is speaking of in terms of kink verses power exchange and WHY each relationship is very different than in most 'nilla venues. It's a commonality of understanding ... not necessarily of practice. If you don't find my points or perspective valid ... that's perfectly fine. It's simply how i see it and not really something that i think has to be run into the ground.

i respect your reasons for NOT seeing it as a sisterhood ... i certainly don't feel an intimate sisterhood with every other slave and submissive. What i said was ... i do understand the commonalities and i choose to take the use of that term in the context i outlined when others use it with me. i do not assume an intimate or biological like connection or love ... i CHOOSE to see it as a reference to the common bonds we do share that are LIKELY better understood if not practiced here than in the 'nilla world. That's why it doesn't offend me personally. That's my approach ... it certainly doesn't have to resonate with you or be yours.

~saki
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RE: D/s sisterhood - 11/10/2007 9:38:24 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sakidorei
Lucky Albatross, no i don't always see differences as negative. i do see that you used differences to negate a positive or affirming experience that might be shared (in the context of invalidating my post) and therefore i choose to equate commonality with positive and differences as negative as in non-affirming for the sake of the discussion. Property of Master D.

See that's the problem in assuming you share a commonality with others. It is NOT a positive or affirming experience for me. I find it false and stifling.

In you not recognizing my individuality and PRESUMING a social kinship, you cause me to experience a negative connection between us.

I understand that is not your intent, I understand some people DO find it affiming and positive. But what I'm discussing here isn't even a Ds issue- humans don't like when other humans presume a level of social closeness with no basis.

You're creating a basis that "because we're oriented as s-types, we have a lot in common." To most people like would be like saying "Because we're oriented as heterosexuals, we have a lot in common"

It's really over stretching. So you can either accept that most people will find it presumptuous and rude and continue to do it anyway because your way of viewing the world as us all having a common bond is better and necessary even though it will be viewed as rude and inappropriate most of the time, or you can err on the side of politeness and ask first or wait until you KNOW you have formed a particular social bond with someone to enjoy your own individual affirming and positive experience of kinship.

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RE: D/s sisterhood - 11/10/2007 9:43:14 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sakidorei

Aquaticsub, i don't think the whole of your logic is valid here but that's ok. Yes some like power exchange and some like kink ... but what i mean is ... we are far more likely here to understand what each is speaking of in terms of kink verses power exchange and WHY each relationship is very different than in most 'nilla venues. It's a commonality of understanding ... not necessarily of practice. If you don't find my points or perspective valid ... that's perfectly fine. It's simply how i see it and not really something that i think has to be run into the ground.

I disagree.

If Mary thrives in her male dom/sub female dynamic but Brenda can not stand the thought the of being controlled outside of the bedroom, Lisa (who isn't kinky and doesn't ID as being into BDSM but belongs to a traditional religion where the male is in charge) will relate to Mary better on that front than Brenda ever could.

I don't understand or relate to a good amount of kinks. That's fine, I know that I have some of my own that others just don't get. We respect each other and will defend each other's right to do what makes us happy though. Much as an open-minded heterosexual respects and defends the rights of his homosexual friend to do what he wants.

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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RE: D/s sisterhood - 11/10/2007 9:44:45 AM

sakidorei

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Lucky Albatross ... the -you- in your last paragraph ... is that directed to me or a general -you- to those who choose to use this term?

i ask because i am unclear who your target audience is with that statement. i was pretty clear that i do NOT use the term with others and while i don't really love it ... my response to the -sister- thing is based on choosing to view it a certain way.

~saki
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RE: D/s sisterhood - 11/10/2007 9:51:35 AM

sakidorei

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AquaticSub ... like i said ... it's all about perspective. You see one thing ... i see another. It's an opinion and perspective question. How do YOU feel about it? We feel differently. That's fine.

If we both sit down at a table that has a bowl on it ... in the bowl there are three apples, a pear, a kumquat, a banana and two oranges. We are asked to list what we see. You might say - "I see three apples, a pear, a kumquat, a banana, and two oranges." i might say - "I see fruit in a bowl". A Master might say ... "I see a beautiful still life waiting to be painted." A Dominant might say ... "I see lunch".

Who is right? We could argue all day the relative merits of each response ... but in the end ... was any answer more right or wrong?

~saki
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RE: D/s sisterhood - 11/10/2007 10:26:30 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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The problem really isn't "You perceive a commonality and I perceive a non commonality."

It's that you perceive a commonality and THEN presume a connectivity and THEN use a particular which PRESUMES a level of social closeness with another person.

I personally believe you are false from the start, and thus all your following points are inappropriate. But even IF I agreed with your observations- it's still rude to presume a level of social closeness with others and use terms accordingly, especially since you are now completely aware that many people disagree with your foundational supporting elements for that behavior.

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RE: D/s sisterhood - 11/10/2007 10:56:59 AM

julietsierra

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sakidorei

AquaticSub ... like i said ... it's all about perspective. You see one thing ... i see another. It's an opinion and perspective question. How do YOU feel about it? We feel differently. That's fine.

If we both sit down at a table that has a bowl on it ... in the bowl there are three apples, a pear, a kumquat, a banana and two oranges. We are asked to list what we see. You might say - "I see three apples, a pear, a kumquat, a banana, and two oranges." i might say - "I see fruit in a bowl". A Master might say ... "I see a beautiful still life waiting to be painted." A Dominant might say ... "I see lunch".

Who is right? We could argue all day the relative merits of each response ... but in the end ... was any answer more right or wrong?

~saki
Property of Master D.

Well, to join in here, you're right sakidorei, it IS all about perspective. And I'll further agree that you have the absolute right to perceive this as you do.

However, when you give voice to your perceptions, calling me sis, or whatever term they're using these days - in other words, placing your perspectives on me, then that's where the line needs to be drawn.

It doesn't matter how I see the term "sister" and it's derivatives. It does matter that someone places those perceptions on someone else and then expects them to go along with it.

Personally, I have issues with "sis" and all that...mostly cause my first thought is that little blonde haired girl in pigtails lisping sissy to her big sister in the television series "A Family Affair" and I get shivers (not in a nice way) up the back of my spine.

juliet

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