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1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/7/2007 11:46:33 PM   
Gwynvyd


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1 in 4 Homeless are Vets




This is just shameful. We should be supporting our Vets of all wars. ~ I can tell you from having worked at a decent level of The Census Bureau that the methods that they, or really any govt. agency uses to go about counting numbers of homeless is bound to be low, and simply inacurate.
They simply beat the bushes ( literialy), and only the ones who are too sick, or slow to move, or run away are counted and interviewed. Outreach groups are generaly trusted by most homeless and can get a better count on them.
So sad how the men and women who protected our nation and fought for us end up like this, and with mental illness that goes untreated.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071108/ap_on_re_us/homeless_veterans


WASHINGTON - Veterans make up one in four homeless people in the United States, though they are only 11 percent of the general adult population, according to a report to be released Thursday.
And homelessness is not just a problem among middle-age and elderly veterans. Younger veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan are trickling into shelters and soup kitchens seeking services, treatment or help with finding a job.
The Veterans Affairs Department has identified 1,500 homeless veterans from the current wars and says 400 of them have participated in its programs specifically targeting homelessness.
The National Alliance to End Homelessness, a public education nonprofit, based the findings of its report on numbers from Veterans Affairs and the Census Bureau. 2005 data estimated that 194,254 homeless people out of 744,313 on any given night were veterans.
In comparison, the VA says that 20 years ago, the estimated number of veterans who were homeless on any given night was 250,000.
Some advocates say the early presence of veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan at shelters does not bode well for the future. It took roughly a decade for the lives of Vietnam veterans to unravel to the point that they started showing up among the homeless. Advocates worry that intense and repeated deployments leave newer veterans particularly vulnerable.
"We're going to be having a tsunami of them eventually because the mental health toll from this war is enormous," said Daniel Tooth, director of veterans affairs for Lancaster County, Pa.
While services to homeless veterans have improved in the past 20 years, advocates say more financial resources still are needed. With the spotlight on the plight of Iraq veterans, they hope more will be done to prevent homelessness and provide affordable housing to the younger veterans while there's a window of opportunity.
"When the Vietnam War ended, that was part of the problem. The war was over, it was off TV, nobody wanted to hear about it," said John Keaveney, a Vietnam veteran and a founder of New Directions in Los Angeles, which provides substance abuse help, job training and shelter to veterans.
"I think they'll be forgotten," Keaveney said of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans. "People get tired of it. It's not glitzy that these are young, honorable, patriotic Americans. They'll just be veterans, and that happens after every war."
Keaveney said it's difficult for his group to persuade some homeless Iraq veterans to stay for treatment and help because they don't relate to the older veterans. Those who stayed have had success — one is now a stock broker and another is applying to be a police officer, he said.
"They see guys that are their father's age and they don't understand, they don't know, that in a couple of years they'll be looking like them," he said.
After being discharged from the military, Jason Kelley, 23, of Tomahawk, Wis., who served in Iraq with the Wisconsin National Guard, took a bus to Los Angeles looking for better job prospects and a new life.
Kelley said he couldn't find a job because he didn't have an apartment, and he couldn't get an apartment because he didn't have a job. He stayed in a $300-a-week motel until his money ran out, then moved into a shelter run by the group U.S. VETS in Inglewood, Calif. He's since been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder, he said.
"The only training I have is infantry training and there's not really a need for that in the civilian world," Kelley said in a phone interview. He has enrolled in college and hopes to move out of the shelter soon.
The Iraq vets seeking help with homelessness are more likely to be women, less likely to have substance abuse problems, but more likely to have mental illness — mostly related to post-traumatic stress, said Pete Dougherty, director of homeless veterans programs at the VA.
Overall, 45 percent of participants in the VA's homeless programs have a diagnosable mental illness and more than three out of four have a substance abuse problem, while 35 percent have both, Dougherty said.
Historically, a number of fighters in U.S. wars have become homeless. In the post-Civil War era, homeless veterans sang old Army songs to dramatize their need for work and became known as "tramps," which had meant to march into war, said Todd DePastino, a historian at Penn State University's Beaver campus who wrote a book on the history of homelessness.
After World War I, thousands of veterans — many of them homeless — camped in the nation's capital seeking bonus money. Their camps were destroyed by the government, creating a public relations disaster for President Herbert Hoover.
The end of the Vietnam War coincided with a time of economic restructuring, and many of the same people who fought in Vietnam were also those most affected by the loss of manufacturing jobs, DePastino said.
Their entrance to the streets was traumatic and, as they aged, their problems became more chronic, recalled Sister Mary Scullion, who has worked with the homeless for 30 years and co-founded of the group Project H.O.M.E. in Philadelphia.
"It takes more to address the needs because they are multiple needs that have been unattended," Scullion said. "Life on the street is brutal and I know many, many homeless veterans who have died from Vietnam."
The VA started targeting homelessness in 1987, 12 years after the fall of Saigon. Today, the VA has, either on its own or through partnerships, more than 15,000 residential rehabilitative, transitional and permanent beds for homeless veterans nationwide. It spends about $265 million annually on homeless-specific programs and about $1.5 billion for all health care costs for homeless veterans.
Because of these types of programs and because two years of free medical care is being offered to all Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, Dougherty said they hope many veterans from recent wars who are in need can be identified early.
"Clearly, I don't think that's going to totally solve the problem, but I also don't think we're simply going to wait for 10 years until they show up," Dougherty said. "We're out there now trying to get everybody we can to get those kinds of services today, so we avoid this kind of problem in the future."
In all of 2006, the National Alliance to End Homelessness estimates that 495,400 veterans were homeless at some point during the year.
The group recommends that 5,000 housing units be created per year for the next five years dedicated to the chronically homeless that would provide permanent housing linked to veterans' support systems. It also recommends funding an additional 20,000 housing vouchers exclusively for homeless veterans, and creating a program that helps bridge the gap between income and rent.
Following those recommendations would cost billions of dollars, but there is some movement in Congress to increase the amount of money dedicated to homeless veterans programs.
On a recent day in Philadelphia, case managers from Project H.O.M.E. and the VA picked up William Joyce, 60, a homeless Vietnam veteran in a wheelchair who said he'd been sleeping at a bus terminal.
"You're an honorable veteran. You're going to get some services," outreach worker Mark Salvatore told Joyce. "You need to be connected. You don't need to be out here on the streets."

On the Net: National Alliance to End Homelessness: http://www.naeh.org/
New Directions: http://www.newdirectionsinc.org/
Project Home: http://www.projecthome.org/
County of Lancaster: http://www.co.lancaster.pa.us/
Veterans Affairs Department: http://www.va.gov/
U.S. Vets: http://usvetsinc.org/

Guys I ask that you please write your representatives and let them know we as a nation of people who stand behind our Vets will not stand for this.

http://www.house.gov/writerep/

Gwyn

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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 1:37:01 AM   
meatcleaver


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One of the main reasons for not fighting for your country is that if you get home with your body in one piece the chances are you will be fucked in the head and require significant mental care but you will just be an inconvenience.

The other reason for not fighting for your country, 99 time out of a 100 you aren't fighting for your country but for the political and financial interests of your country's establishment.

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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 1:40:37 AM   
Real0ne


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and if that dont get ya, you will die young from depleted uranium poisoning/ cancer and produce kids that are mutants from the birth defects of the same.




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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 6:51:35 AM   
FirmhandKY


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FR,

All "homeless advocacy groups" except the VA, and no direct links in any of the referenced sites or material to the VA quoted material.

I'd say that the data is basically tainted and self-serving, and likely has problems if subjected to rigorous statistical and/or logical analysis.

Basically ... I'm calling Bullshit.

This is part of the next phase of the "anti-war" movement, along with demonizing American soldiers.

Firm


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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 6:53:01 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

This is part of the next phase of the "anti-war" movement, along with demonizing American soldiers.

Firm



Have you been abroad fighting for your country yet?

EDIT or at least fighting for the political and financial establishments.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 7:19:46 AM   
TheHeretic


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          I was just having this conversation a few days ago with a guy who runs a program to help homeless vets get themselves together.

         Part of the problem is simply what vets become acclimated to while serving.  Being outdoors in all weather conditions, sleeping on the ground, missing meals; that's called a field exercise.  When the drug of choice (and the number listed above for substance abuse problems is probably low) becomes the most important thing in their lives, they are already accustomed to many of the elements of being homeless. 

         And rehab doesn't work until they really want it to. 

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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 7:20:10 AM   
Gwynvyd


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It is simply amazing how if you list links, and the news articles site ( It was Yahoo mind you.. not some politico left or right wing website... ) some goober will still say, eh.. it has got to be BS.

Well buddy, you go out and "beat the bushes" and try to tally up the homeless with a whole team of numerators from the govt. ( Which I have done since I was the only one in the orginzation who had ever had any contact with the homeless volunteering at shelters.) You go work at shelters and see the toll and the effects the wars have had on vets, and why they are in that situation. I have seen it first hand.

Do you care to get off of your lazy boy and your high horse and go make a differance, or is that bullshit too?

Research it, and then go volunteer, write your congress people. Make some bit of differance other then sitting here and bitching about shit.

No wonder America is going to hell in a handbasket. People are too easy to stick thier head in the sand, and mutter thats not true.. instead of getting off thier asses and fixing shit.

You deserve what government you get through inaction. If you arent out there trying to make it better, then you have no right to bitch.


Just my two cents.

Gwyn

< Message edited by Gwynvyd -- 11/8/2007 7:26:05 AM >


_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 7:20:15 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

All "homeless advocacy groups" except the VA,

Firm



All other issues aside, the VA is not a homeless advocacy group, FKY.

Um, the deplorable conditions and lack of adequate care within the VA system are widely  known...especially by us vets.

This is not to say that there are not dedicated and caring individuals within the VA, rather; funding, rules, hiring practice and overall unkindly management and policies (under the guise of save a buck) are at issue.

Ron 

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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 7:21:16 AM   
TankII7871


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I have been abroad fighting for my country and I'm calling bull shit on this one.  Out of the guys i still keep in contact with not one of them is homeless.  Mark is a state trooper  Brad works in a bank Stitz works in the union and i own a company.  Looks like that 0-4 that are homeless.  Now i know that there are homeless vets. People who just cant readjusts to the normal world when they return.  For those people i believe everything and anything should be done to help them.  Now a couple of things i would like to add that are just my opinions.  Some people just want to be homeless for there own reasons if given the help to get off the street they will just return to the street.  Public opinion back home,  honestly when in a war zone we just don't give a fuck what y'all think.  We are not reading the papers thinking that that the people back home say this is wrong so we should lay down our rifles and stop fighting.  Sorry but at the time we have a few other things on our minds.  Now before y'all start saying me and my friends that i keep in contact with were the lucky ones.  I'll go ahead and say yes we were.  All 4 of us have purple hearts 2 of us have purple hearts with cluster but we also had a great corpsman and friends that fought like hell to pull us out of a bad spot.  I'll bet that one of them were worrying about the polls back home when they were doing it.

Eric
oh and one other thing we all had in common we all had a chest full of medals but not one good conduct medal between us  lol 

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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 7:24:23 AM   
Aneirin


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I agree totally, it is much the same here, ex service people are forgotten about, they do largely have mental health issues which do prevent some from re integrating into civilian life.Our MOD seems to regard those broken warriors as an embarassment.

Not only those that see action, there are those that don't, yet on leaving the forces they are presented with a whole host of problems with society outside the camp gates.I know plenty of this latter type who have given a large proportion of their lives in the service of their country only to retire, be made redundant or whatever only to come out and life is definately not what they thought and so struggle to integrate.Mental problems swiftly ensue, depression, anxiety etc.

Forces life institutionalises a person, the order inside is definately nothing like the chaos outside.

Honestly, it is very noble of a person to want to be ready to DEFEND their country, but experience says better to stay out of it.

I wonder though, if the masses did not sign up and become a mass of disposable people in the form of an army or other, would the politicians be so keen to wage war with few able to fight it?

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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 7:27:16 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

This is part of the next phase of the "anti-war" movement, along with demonizing American soldiers.

Firm



Have you been abroad fighting for your country yet?

EDIT or at least fighting for the political and financial establishments.


You so funny, meat.

If you want to start on the discredited and morally and logically bankrupt "chickenhawk" attack, please ... be my guest.  It's so fun to turn it back on people who take that position.

But, just FYI, yes ... I actually have fought for my country and it's political and economic "institutions of oppression" on several continents, including in in the middle east, in Iraq.

My oldest son is currently stationed near Baghdad, as an infantryman.  Treasure's oldest son (also in the infantry) will be there in November for his second tour or duty.

So ... you can bugger off until you have the balls to place your life, and the lives of your loved ones into harms way for your beliefs.  Rather than just posting BS on an anonymous forum on the internet.

Now .... you wanna trot out that dumb ass "chickenhawk" argument anyway?

Firm


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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 7:29:30 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

FR,

All "homeless advocacy groups" except the VA, and no direct links in any of the referenced sites or material to the VA quoted material.

I'd say that the data is basically tainted and self-serving, and likely has problems if subjected to rigorous statistical and/or logical analysis.

Basically ... I'm calling Bullshit.

This is part of the next phase of the "anti-war" movement, along with demonizing American soldiers.

Firm



The lack of curiosity and concern ,is telling.

Is the only reaction to bad news about people we should care for,denial and prevarication?

Shouldn`t we at least,let the benefit of any doubt, go towards finding out for sure ,what the real deal is?

Instead of a neo-con "brush off",and "it can`t happen here" attitude,we should at the very least,find out if it`s true.

My gut tells me,that neo-cons won`t admit to this,even if true.The mind set doesn`t allow for honesty and integrity.It`s more about photo ops and seeming good,rather then being good.

How about this:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/02/11/told_to_wait_a_marine_dies/

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/world/americas/iraq%20vets%20suicide%20rate%20soars/187325

and

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071031/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/military_suicide

How concerned does anyone think that  neo-cons/pro-war hacks ,are going be over our GI`s increased rates of suicide?

My bet is they`ll run from this, too.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 7:31:44 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

All "homeless advocacy groups" except the VA,

Firm



All other issues aside, the VA is not a homeless advocacy group, FKY.

Um, the deplorable conditions and lack of adequate care within the VA system are widely  known...especially by us vets.

This is not to say that there are not dedicated and caring individuals within the VA, rather; funding, rules, hiring practice and overall unkindly management and policies (under the guise of save a buck) are at issue.


All other issues aside, the VA is not a homeless advocacy group, FKY.
I know, Ron.  That's why I said "except the VA".

I also agree that the VA isn't my first choice when it comes to health care, but it's been that way on all administrations since it came into existence.

My point is that now things like that come out mainly (although not exclusively) because of, and due to, political opposition to the war.

Firm

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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 7:32:30 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

Do you care to get off of your lazy boy and your high horse and go make a differance, or is that bullshit too?



Promoting fearmongering rumors and hateful stereotypes does make a difference, but not one that I would care to be supporting. 

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 7:38:41 AM   
FirmhandKY


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Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The lack of curiosity and concern ,is telling.

Is the only reaction to bad news about people we should care for,denial and prevarication?

Shouldn`t we at least,let the benefit of any doubt, go towards finding out for sure ,what the real deal is?

Instead of a neo-con "brush off",and "it can`t happen here" attitude,we should at the very least,find out if it`s true.

My gut tells me,that neo-cons won`t admit to this,even if true.The mind set doesn`t allow for honesty and integrity.It`s more about photo ops and seeming good,rather then being good.

How about this:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/02/11/told_to_wait_a_marine_dies/

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/world/americas/iraq%20vets%20suicide%20rate%20soars/187325

and

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071031/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/military_suicide

How concerned does anyone think that  neo-cons/pro-war hacks ,are going be over our GI`s increased rates of suicide?

My bet is they`ll run from this, too.



How come I get the feeling that you could really give a shit less about veterans and their situation, except in this case, in this time, because their suffering furthers your ability to espouse your political agenda?

And - as soon as you have achieved whatever your agenda is -  that your "level of concern" for them will just about equal the level of concern you have for the sperm in the tissue you masturbated into?

Firm


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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 7:40:18 AM   
mnottertail


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Ahhhhhhh, FKY......

Now the sentence makes some sense to me, it is the lack of inflection and texture on this screen that is fucking me up. 

Regarding the VA and recruiting waivers and oil and terrorism and insurgency:

Well, no one cares about that sort of shit after the war is over, or before the next is begun, most of the VA dismantling is done in times of relative peacefulness.

With the focus on the war, all aspects ancillary come into the periphery of discourse, not a matter of intrigue at all. As the right also speaks of ancillary cause and effect and so on, so does the left, (and so does the center), the discussion is broad, given time, and touches the far reaches. Not a matter of espionage or unwholesome design, for the most part.

Cordially,
Ron

 

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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 7:41:28 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

How come I get the feeling that you could really give a shit less about veterans and their situation, except in this case, in this time, because their suffering furthers your ability to espouse your political agenda?


Because you've read too many of his other posts?

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 7:41:47 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

So ... you can bugger off until you have the balls to place your life, and the lives of your loved ones into harms way for your beliefs.  Rather than just posting BS on an anonymous forum on the internet.

Now .... you wanna trot out that dumb ass "chickenhawk" argument anyway?

Firm



Oh I have but I'm not dumb enough to be seen dead in a uniform (pun intended) with the political/financial establishment telling me it's all for my country when its really for them.


_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 7:47:18 AM   
pgashlie


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OK, some basic statistics please....

The statement, "1 of 4 homeless is a vet...", is meanginless without some actual data. 
It's the kind of rabble-rousing simplitude that people like to trot out when they need votes or money.

How are they defining "veteran"? And what proportion of the population fits that definition?
(You might also find that, for example, 1/4 of librarians or traffic cops are veterans, if the definition is loose enough... some proportion of pig-farmers are left-handed, but so what??) 

How big was the sample, where was it taken...  was it corrected in any way for "clusters" of vets?

Who are the other three?

And on and on...
There's really no point getting all partisan about a poorly supported claim released into the community with the express purpose of sitrring up excitement. 

And, before somebody bites my head off...  I am not demeaning those who fight for their country, whichever country that happens to be.

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RE: 1 in 4 homeless are a veteran - 11/8/2007 7:49:49 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

How are they defining "veteran"? And what proportion of the population fits that definition?


And how was the claim of veteran's status verified?

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