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RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 7:21:21 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		Everyone likes validation...from the little one that gets stickers for a job well done to the professional that gets a good yearly review...

Do i think someone else's validation should define who i am? no...

Do i think i have any business telling anyone else what should and should not define who they are? hell no...that would open the door to them telling me what should and should not define who i am...i am sure there are plenty of things that that i do that a ton of people see as unhealthy..."unhealthy" is a negative value judgment...i have no right to make negative value judgments on other people's relationships...i can tell you what is true and false based on the evidence presented, but i can not tell you what is good or bad for you no matter how much evidence is presented...that is completely subjective and different from person to person...

i agree with your line of thinking regarding how one should get their validation, because that is how it works best for me...if that does not work for others though, who am i to tell them that what works best for them is unhealthy? when and where did i get my degree that certified me capable of telling them that?

better?

take care
chelle


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 7:21:39 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

This plays into a bigger issue if anyone else cares to discuss it... who has the more important opinion about a submissive's identity.... the dom or the sub?

In my opinion this has a lot of variances. If for health reasons, well being or for want of better words the sub has just let themselves go, then i would say the Doms. In all other circumstances my own opinion is more important. But thats just me.
 
quote:

For example, if a dom tells a submissive to lose weight, even though her weight is in normal range and she felt good about herself before he brought it up... who has the more important opinion?

This came up recently for me. I thought i had put weight on and mentioned it to Sir. He didnt think so but He did say if i went over a certain size He would no longer play with me. I would still be in my noram weight range. His opinion for me really counts here as i would no longer be appearance wise the girl He started seeing.
 
quote:

Should she need him to validate her weight as long as it is healthy for her height?...

I do not need Him to validate my weight, but i do need to accept that if i do go to a certain size, He will no longer play with me.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 7:25:03 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
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quote:

who am i to tell them that what works best for them is unhealthy? when and where did i get my degree that certified me capable of telling them that?


Thank you for your reply chelle.
I agree with your 'who am i' totally, that is why i said in my opinion.
It would be unhealthy for me to rely on the validation of others.
I'm pretty sure that those who find it healthy to rely on others validation don't need my opinion to match theirs. Each to their own.


< Message edited by missturbation -- 11/12/2007 7:31:16 AM >

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 7:28:08 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

There is another type that has a beauty obsession, and those are the ones that are really asking for attention. Some also ask if they are beautiful, not because they think they are ugly, but they seek confirmation from their partner that they are desirable, sexy, and attractive.


I'll be the first to admit to doing that at times. It's still seeking validation though, whatever the reason behind it may be, in my opinion.



_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 7:38:35 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I learned a long time ago, no one needs more validation regarding their looks than a model/actress. It is enough to drive, even a patient woman, NUTS!

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 7:44:28 AM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		I think most of us like to here nice things about ourselves from times to time. When someone needs constant validation from others then there may be a self esteem issue. I do agree that we should have a healthy view of ourselves when we are in a relationship, but the reality is alot of people don't. That is just the way it is.

Not everyone has a healthy mindset in this lifestyle and I just can't worry about everyone.

< Message edited by sweetnurseBBW -- 11/12/2007 7:45:25 AM >

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RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 7:48:36 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I learned a long time ago, no one needs more validation regarding their looks than a model/actress. It is enough to drive, even a patient woman, NUTS!


~ponders what it would be like to watch the ever-patient LaTigresse going nuts and smiles~

Seriously...I think a person has to validate themselves.  I've stated that I think a dominant has to feel and know within themselves that they are good at what they do in order to keep doing it with a submissive.  Her validation helps to strengthen that ...and it should...but he should be up to looking within himself and asking if what he does fits the situation and whether or not he is capable of each situation he faces and honestly answer himself even while critiquing himself.  Self-validation is what is important as long as it is not carried over to self-delusion...that state where you think you are a wonderful dominant or a beautiful woman or a fantastic CEO but every outside opinion (those that matter...your partner, your employees and other supervisors) is distinctly contrary to that.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 8:01:00 AM   
enchainee


Posts: 15
Status: offline 		Easy
If given a compliment say thank you. Do not insult anothers taste.  Do not invalidate the opinion of your master. 
Value and validate your own self esteem too.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 8:14:12 AM   
kc692


Posts: 3701
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Hell, I thought this was a thread exchanging blowjobs for a parking validation.

Never mind. 


Don't know if a blowjob that cheap would be worth your time, lol!!

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Anyone can overpower; not many can INSPIRE.....

This is only MY opinion. If it's not yours, let's agree in advance to agree to disagree, OR, you can just get the fuck over what I had to say:)

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 8:21:54 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

 
I love to hear Sir say i look good, beautiful for example, but i don't need Him to validate me as beautiful. I need to validate myself and yeah there are days when i think i look like shit and there are days i think i'm an out and out goddess. I just think relying on someone else to validate me is not healthy in the long run. It's a quick fix for a problem that is at some point going to resurface.
 
I have to add there are also some fabulous posts about working WITH your Dom / Domme to believe in oneself such as Kyra of Mists, Breatheasone and SimplyMichaels to name but a few.  


iIm not going to shoot you down in flames as I think this has opened a fabulous discussion..  You seem to be doing three things here at the same time:
1. Asking us for validation because
2. You are asking how we feel about how you should validate yourself
3. Showing there is a conflict at times between how/what your Dom does to validate you and your own sense of self worth.
I work with others a great deal on this but I am being very specific here and saying this is just my personall opinion ok (or else I shall no doubt get shot down too)....
anyway in my personal opinion, when I was only in the vanilla, then the opinions of my husband(s)/lovers mattered more than my opinion of myself. I looked to them for validation. It wasn't until I got really abused in a maariage that I HAD to fix myself worth and I had to realise that :
1  I could fix it
2  It could remain fixed or I was at choice to turn to someone else (friend, colleague, lover) for additobal validation.
Once the bdsm dynamic got fired up inside of me and within a kinked relationship you know what? the lower I stoop the more I need to remember and affirm my sense of worth. OK so last weekend I said here publicly that I felt like death warmed up. It wasn't because of antything the Dom had done within the dynamic, within the scene itself that had made me temporarily fall off the self-worth wagon. It is something that I allowed myself to do outside of the dynamic...actually I had put myself at risk....derrrrrrrrr stupid me won't do that again.
Anyway I have a kink for sadists and that means when they say I am a worthless piece of shit they actually adore me.....in sado-masochism, in the s/m part of all of this isn't that what it is, a cross over? pain equals pleasure, insults mean love, the whip is foreplay?
I can get pretty depraved and I do in order to test the strength of my self worth.
Bottom line....sorry no pun intended...is that you ae always at choice about how you feel about yourself whichever dynamic you are in.
To me you look beautiful and stunning and amazing and you sound eloquent, for what it's worth.
And if I had my time over again?
I would never have forgotten my self worth.
It's just that I am an empath and it;s boring being a psychic (no not starting that again) and having a deep feel for whats going to happen so I go for the roller-coaster-emotion-addict-gemini-effin-switch-bitch who loves the fall out rather than the pout.....
but you don;t have to be.
In the lines of the ad man: BECAUSE YOU'RE WORTH IT. (shouting ok )
PS lecture on self-esteem?


< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 11/12/2007 8:26:26 AM >

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 8:22:00 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		I'll be honest. I can not remember ever being told by him that I was beautiful, pretty, etc... however, he was very aware of how I saw myself; and how my own image affected our relationship. He did things to force me to acknowledge the flaws of my body while at the same time forcing me to accept that I was the way I was.
His way of doing this finally got me to understand that the beauty of a person is only shown when that person  can see what is inside themselves.
It becomes quite a humbling experience when you finally come to the realization that the outside package has very little to do with how beautiful something is.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 8:26:53 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Society sets the standard for beauty for most people, that is a simple fact.  At one point is was large women another time it was skin that had never seen sun, and now it is some impossibly thin look.

Point is that society is quite powerful in setting those standards but we, in a broad sense, reject societies standards and set our own, pain =pleasure or slavery=free (as broad concepts) so we can sure as hell set our own standard of beauty.

Women are hypercritical of their bodies and the more they base their value on as a person on those looks, the more hypercritical they are.  It is a fucked up way to base your self esteem because looks fade, some faster than others.  What women DON'T get is that many men would much rather have a woman who is "larger" if they would just shut the fuck up and have fun with their body. 

Forgive me those who have read this before but it bears repeating.  My first submissive was a woman who was on the far side of a size 16 but she loved her body and not only belly danced, she performed in public and she LOVED her body.  She dressed sexy for herself and for me.  She made sure she looked good and she did.  That confidence and love of her body shined through and she attracted far more attention than many women who "society" would have judged as more attractive.  I loved it because I never had to deal with the CRAP that all too many women go through.  "Gee, I don't look good in that" which means "I am fucked and never get to see MY women in something I see her as sexy in"

I think THAT is what many mean when they say "your master's opinion is the only one that counts".  I don't think many are saying that the submissive's feelings don't count but instead they are saying "tell society to shove its opinion up its ass and go be a sexy woman for  your man"....

(in reply to enchainee)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 8:28:20 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I learned a long time ago, no one needs more validation regarding their looks than a model/actress. It is enough to drive, even a patient woman, NUTS!

yep agreed

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 8:41:34 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

I think most of us like to here nice things about ourselves from times to time. When someone needs constant validation from others then there may be a self esteem issue. I do agree that we should have a healthy view of ourselves when we are in a relationship, but the reality is alot of people don't. That is just the way it is.

Not everyone has a healthy mindset in this lifestyle and I just can't worry about everyone.


I do not know anyone that does not have some insecurities and self esteem issues... at least at some point in their lives.... but I am sure there is someone out there that could prove me wrong, because there are no universals I suppose

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 8:45:48 AM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		life is about self growth and how we interact with others.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 8:55:41 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vanatru

Often the beauty question obscures the real issue, and that is perspective. A person can look at themselves and totally ignore a whole side of themselves and completely overemphasize another part. You see this quite clearly in anorexics where, not matter how slight their real body fat is, to them it’s an overwhelming mountain of ugly blubber. Anorexics do not corner the market on doing this, many people harbor varying degrees of obsessive perspective, and in general, other people have little impact in affecting such an outlook. About the best someone can do is help them see there are other things about them than the negative perspective, that their fat/bad teeth/whatever doesn’t define all of who they are. But mainly it takes the person themselves to see it, to realize there is much more to them than this one aspect of their life. It also takes a change in definition, for anorexics, their definition of beauty is being thin. By changing their definition, they start changing their perspective, and vice versa.

There is another type that has a beauty obsession, and those are the ones that are really asking for attention. Some also ask if they are beautiful, not because they think they are ugly, but they seek confirmation from their partner that they are desirable, sexy, and attractive.

Edit: darn paste boulderdash


This is all completely on target. The most beautiful women in the world are often the most insecure with their looks; since they often rely on them at the expense of other qualities. They are used to attention being paid and often need constant validation..

On another note, no matter how attractive you think YOU are, if you are interested in someone else and involved with them, you always want to be reassured of how attractive THEY find you. Call that what you will, but I have experienced it, my friends do it all the time and we all think we are attractive and bright women.

I agree with the OP in that we all need to have a basis of self-worth at our very core, but to be realistic in our visually obsessed and competitive world, we all get insecure at times and need validation from outside sources. I don't think this is confined to BDSM or vanilla by the way.

(in reply to Vanatru)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 9:11:11 AM   
Michaelsangel


Posts: 49
Joined: 10/15/2007
From: Portland Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation


What about your own opinion? How about validating yourself rather than someone else validating you?  Saying 'i am beautiful because Sir says so', ok yes Sir finds you beautiful. What happens though if Sir is no longer around to validate you? Shouldn't believing in oneself start with oneself?


misst,
In my opinion, it has a lot to do with self-esteem issues, wheither negative or positive. Sir is helping me overcome those negative issues just in case he is ill nor gets injured and is not around to re-inforce that postive feedback. So it isn't so much Him validating me, but Him helping me to LEARN to validate myself.




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Michaelsangel dutiful sub to SrMichael


I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. Maya Angelou

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 9:18:18 AM   
MrSpectacular


Posts: 1153
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		I think we all look for some form of validation - whether sub dom or whatever - we want the person we are with to appreciate the qualities we have. But - it does not mean to say that we have thus to be dependent on that person or accept everything they say.I f he says you are beautiful one day and ugly the next - that is not the truth - it is a way of hurting you, for example - it then needs to be recognized for being that.



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Yes I am Spectacular and they are real!

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 9:22:07 AM   
MystressDream


Posts: 345
Joined: 7/11/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I learned a long time ago, no one needs more validation regarding their looks than a model/actress. It is enough to drive, even a patient woman, NUTS!


Ohhhh... and don't forget the body builder.  I was involved with one until I got tired of him looking at a mirror more than at me.  LOL
 
He was CONSTANTLY wanting positive reinforcement.  It got old very quickly.

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Knowledge and experience are wonderful things to share. When we stop asking questions, we might as well "hang it up".

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Validate me - 11/12/2007 9:23:54 AM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

What about your own opinion? How about validating yourself rather than someone else validating you?  Saying 'i am beautiful because Sir says so', ok yes Sir finds you beautiful. What happens though if Sir is no longer around to validate you? Shouldn't believing in oneself start with oneself?
 
I just think relying on someone else to validate me is not healthy in the long run. It's a quick fix for a problem that is at some point going to resurface. 
 


It isn't a quick fix or a crutch. It is learning a different way of thinking about one's self. It is practice. It is a learning tool. You have to learn it somewhere - when your self-worth is nil, you sure aren't going to learn it yourself - and hopefully the lesson carries on if that particular Dominant is still in one's life or not.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 40
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