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RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 11:56:08 AM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

By putting out their own money, and trying to pass it off as legal tender, of course they would be arrested. Only the government has the right to issue money. If you went into the store and paid for your groceries with this, you would be liable for paying them again with legal money and out whatever you had paid to get the funny money.

Oddly enough, I do this all the time with a credit card. Just because that credit card represents 'real' dollars, doesn't mean money has actually changed hands. What does change hand, is a credit voucher. I don't actually pay for my product, until I send a check to the bank (which is also just another bank voucher.)

In practice, there's little difference between credit cards and this 'alternative' currency. I'm certain my grandchildren won't even have paper/coin money to make use of; it'll be a federally issued electronic currency.

Stephan

_____________________________

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(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 41

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 12:18:17 PM

GhitaAmati

Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline

I actually happen to be on the Liberty Dollar mailing list so I went back through some of my emails. I cant guarentee that Ron Paul had anything to do with setting up the minting of coins with his face on them.....but I doubt he was against it since a portion of the profits of their sale was going to his campaign. Ron Paul's campain has also stated that they would accept campain donations in the form of Liberty Dollars.

Personally I have invested in a few liberty dollars, but more from a coin collectors standpoint than anything. I will admit their paper money is really pretty, and Im truthfully against the idea that what they are doing is truly illegal. If someone wants to accept a gold, silver, platinum, or even copper coin in exchange for a service then who's to stop them? Think of it this way. Last month I sold quite a few indian artifacts in exchange for a really really nice quality 18th century spanish doubloon. I know for a fact that I got the better end of the deal...but the guy with the coins agreed to it and went away happy. Nothing is stopping anyone from purchasing anything using gold or silver....and if I want to go spend american dollars to buy metal I feel I should be able to....

_____________________________

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(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 42

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 12:30:28 PM

luckydog1

Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline

Stephann, I don't think you have that quite right. There is a huge difference between using a credit card and using a liberty dollar. When you signed the contract with the Credit card, you became legally bound to pay any debts you choose to take on plus applicable intrest in legal tender. The credit card companies also are bound by regulations that they have to pay in legal tender. The credit card company makes money by making it easier for you to access your legal tender, and if you refuse to pay you suffer civil and legal penalties. Liberty Dollar is very carefull to state very clearly, Liberty Dollars are not legal tender. The company walks a very fine line between pretending it is actually money, while saying it isn't in the fine print. Some of their salespeople (it works sort of like Amway, after you sign someone up, you get a % of every thing they buy), misrepresent that it is legal tender, and get busted. You can barter with a rock or a goat or a liberty dollar at a store if the store wants to.

What Liberty Dollar does is sell engraved pieces of Metal at prices far above what you can buy from other dealers, call it money (but not legal tender), and they mix it up with an anti government poltical message to get a premium price. The political message also helps them identify people who are guilible enough to fall for it. At least at the Hawaiian mint they did limited runs, so the coins have the potential of having a collectors item value, sort of like a commerative elvis plate or doll.

Ron Paul has tried to flirt with these folks (as well as the 911 "Truthers") for support, and it is going to put him out of the race. He either publically dumps and denounces them or he gets shown as a KOOK. If he denounces his main support base he loses his 7% or what ever it is now.

Consider not a single one of his supporters (on here) will come out and say that they believe him when he says he had no idea what Liberty Dollar was doing with his name and picture....

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 43

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 3:42:26 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

She was 87, with heart problems, if you actually care. Walking out of Manhattan didn't help her any either. Why this is of any relevance I have no idea, unless you are so low class you are making fun of her, I assume ranger is.

But what about you Real, do you think RP is so unaware that he actually did not know that NORFED was using his name and likeness? I refuse to believe that with such an Internet based campaign, that it is possible they did not know.

Well i was just curious because you were vehemently blaming 911 when it seems that maybe walking could have done it all by itself.

To think ron paul knew it really presumtuous on your part.

If you took the time to read the site it was a champaign stunt much like the other stunt with the 4 mil. I dont believe for a second he knew about it but I bet he does now that the feds took away the gold needed to make the coins.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 44

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 3:47:18 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Ron Paul has tried to flirt with these folks (as well as the 911 "Truthers") for support, and it is going to put him out of the race. He either publically dumps and denounces them or he gets shown as a KOOK. If he denounces his main support base he loses his 7% or what ever it is now.

Consider not a single one of his supporters (on here) will come out and say that they believe him when he says he had no idea what Liberty Dollar was doing with his name and picture....

well i just did.

yeh anyone foolish enough to believe 19 hijackers.....err i mean 12 hijackers 7 of them were alive and never on any planes, anyway yeh the 911 kooks that think the governments conspiracy theory is valid when they only have a 50% hit and miss record on getting it right is laughable.

I think those kooks are bush supporters tho.

another alternative is to run a poll and see how many americans believe 911 was not a false flage and see the response and run on that... Who knows maybe the truthers will kick the kooks out of office eh

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 11/20/2007 3:52:02 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 45

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 7:04:05 PM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1
Ron Paul has tried to flirt with these folks (as well as the 911 "Truthers") for support, and it is going to put him out of the race. He either publically dumps and denounces them or he gets shown as a KOOK. If he denounces his main support base he loses his 7% or what ever it is now.

Consider not a single one of his supporters (on here) will come out and say that they believe him when he says he had no idea what Liberty Dollar was doing with his name and picture....

Your changing your ascertion from the orignal one. First you said affiliated with, and now it is down to the standard of "being aware". I never said that he absolutely never heard of the liberty dollar. I'm sure he probably has. Undoubtedly some supporter has brought one to him, thinking it was cool. But if someone brought me a dollar with my head on it, made of gold or silver, and praising me. LOL. I doubt I'd have a heart attack or pursue legal action.

Affiliation and passing awareness of item are two different things. If you initially meant Ron Paul, probably has seen one of them, I wouldn't disagee. Affiliation implies active involvement with them or an endorsement. And also implies he would be aware of their intentions.

I don't agree with the latter. I believe he probably has seen one, and thought it was cool his head was on a coin. That's about it. I don't believe he's conspiring to overthrow the currency via infiltrating it with liberty dollars. He's trying to save the US currency if anything not collapse it.

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 46

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 9:29:02 PM

luckydog1

Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline

I do think that Ron Paul is well connected to the Tax resistor movement, they share many of the same goals. That is one of the cores of his base. I do think that anyone involved in the anti federal reserve and tax resisting movements, are fully aware of Who and What NORFED is, or they are a very dim unaware person, and I am assuming that is not the case for RP. As you say I do think he is "aware of thier intentions", which as you point out meets the standard of affiliation. I also do not believe that NORFED is using his picture and name without permission. He has actively allowed them to use it, to make money, to support thier goals. He could stop it with a word. It was his staff claiming that he was unaware of the LIberty Dollars, which I find to be uncredible.

This however is mostly opinion. You can pretend RP is a smart man who has no idea what the some of the leaders, who he has even had conversdations with at confrences (according to you) in a movement he is passionate about, are actually doing. I do not buy it. Feel Free to disagree.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Post #: 47

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 9:46:30 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

Lucky,

whats your problem with norfed? Are you saying its not legal to sell metal?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 48

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 9:48:58 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1
Ron Paul has tried to flirt with these folks (as well as the 911 "Truthers") for support, and it is going to put him out of the race. He either publically dumps and denounces them or he gets shown as a KOOK. If he denounces his main support base he loses his 7% or what ever it is now.

Consider not a single one of his supporters (on here) will come out and say that they believe him when he says he had no idea what Liberty Dollar was doing with his name and picture....

Your changing your ascertion from the orignal one. First you said affiliated with, and now it is down to the standard of "being aware". I never said that he absolutely never heard of the liberty dollar. I'm sure he probably has. Undoubtedly some supporter has brought one to him, thinking it was cool. But if someone brought me a dollar with my head on it, made of gold or silver, and praising me. LOL. I doubt I'd have a heart attack or pursue legal action.

Affiliation and passing awareness of item are two different things. If you initially meant Ron Paul, probably has seen one of them, I wouldn't disagee. Affiliation implies active involvement with them or an endorsement. And also implies he would be aware of their intentions.

I don't agree with the latter. I believe he probably has seen one, and thought it was cool his head was on a coin. That's about it. I don't believe he's conspiring to overthrow the currency via infiltrating it with liberty dollars. He's trying to save the US currency if anything not collapse it.

I couldn't have said this better myself.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Post #: 49

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 9:54:06 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati

If someone wants to accept a gold, silver, platinum, or even copper coin in exchange for a service then who's to stop them?

It's legal to do this under current law, but not legal to describe them as "coins" or "legal tender" unless they're minted by the US Treasury.

The Liberty Dollars are best represented as medallions.

< Message edited by subfever -- 11/20/2007 9:57:36 PM >

(in reply to GhitaAmati)

Post #: 50

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 10:07:31 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

They`re a hot item on Ebay.

Silver Dollars are going for $255.
Gold Dollars $2,550.

http://search.ebay.com/ron-paul-dollars_W0QQfromZR41

Aren`t these novelty items,in any case?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/20/2007 10:08:21 PM >

(in reply to subfever)

Post #: 51

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 10:20:13 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

I damned nearly placed a decent order for the copper variety. Good thing I didn't, as I never would have received them due to the government theft... er... "consfication" of them. May not have received a refund of my order either, as the government jackboots walked off with everything else too.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 52

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 10:26:38 PM

allcatsaregrey

Posts: 77
Joined: 11/2/2007
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

Slighty off-topic, but there is so much Ron Paul stuff on the Temple U. campus. I went down to visit my sister last week, and saw his name everywhere.

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(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 53

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 10:28:51 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

One should question why now, after NORFED has been doing this for 8-9 years already.

The PTB obviously feels threatened by something, in order to take this action. Is it Ron Paul's momentum, the Liberty Dollar momentum in general, or both?

(in reply to subfever)

Post #: 54

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 10:29:15 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
We are never going back to the gold or silver standard, and we shouldn't.

Really? WHy not?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 55

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 10:31:40 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: allcatsaregrey

Slighty off-topic, but there is so much Ron Paul stuff on the Temple U. campus. I went down to visit my sister last week, and saw his name everywhere.

I recently drove through SW Wisconsin, and saw a surprising number of Ron Paul signs on private properties near the roadside.

(in reply to allcatsaregrey)

Post #: 56

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 10:32:11 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: allcatsaregrey

Slighty off-topic, but there is so much Ron Paul stuff on the Temple U. campus. I went down to visit my sister last week, and saw his name everywhere.

I came upon two rallies this last weekend.Usually they`re anti-war lefties ,standing at intersections.This time ,it was Paul supporters.There were quite a few of them,at least 50 people at each one.

(in reply to allcatsaregrey)

Post #: 57

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 10:33:25 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

They`re a hot item on Ebay.

Silver Dollars are going for $255.
Gold Dollars $2,550.

http://search.ebay.com/ron-paul-dollars_W0QQfromZR41

Aren`t these novelty items,in any case?

as far as "legal tender" is concerned yes.

However they can certainly be used to pay someone for something since they are nearly 100 percent pure gold and silver and that is worth whatever the spot price is minimum.

That and they arent dollars, they are sized at 1 ounce. I have to laugh, lucky is whining about the price norfed charges and look at the price they bring on ebay!!!

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 11/20/2007 10:37:08 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 58

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 10:35:59 PM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline

quote:

Really? WHy not?

Real, because our gold and silver reserves are not the sole source of our wealth. If we are going to do that, why not coal notes, oil notes, iron ore notes, etc? There are some problems with our current system, but regressing back to the system of gold and silver coins and certificates is not going to fix it.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 59

RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 11/20/2007 10:37:34 PM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

Say.....

Any of you racist-anti-Fed-anti-IRS-jack-booted-Ron Paul-supporting thugs here on collarme read this story?

http://www.lvrj.com/news/9893062.html

The worst thing.... they don't want anyone to know about this. It's been totally kept out of mainstream /corporate news.

HAR! HAR! HAR!

- R

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to subfever)

Post #: 60

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