Stephann
Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: luckydog1
Stephann, I don't think you have that quite right. There is a huge difference between using a credit card and using a liberty dollar. When you signed the contract with the Credit card, you became legally bound to pay any debts you choose to take on plus applicable intrest in legal tender.
Legal tender... what does that actually mean today? Honestly, what is the practical value of a US dollar? The only value of a US dollar, is what we as a society ascribe to it. I don't suggest that it's worthless of course; when I lived in Chile, I stood behind a woman who didn't have any Chilean pesos to buy a ticket; she only had a US dollar. The cashier exchanged the dollar out of his own pocket, and gave her change. Clearly, there's power behind the dollar.
The issue, though, is that because our dollar isn't fixed to anything other than the market value of what it represents, it becomes much more prone to inflation.
The credit card companies also are bound by regulations that they have to pay in legal tender. The credit card company makes money by making it easier for you to access your legal tender, and if you refuse to pay you suffer civil and legal penalties.
And here's my point; my legal tender is never actually seen. My credit card transaction is a virtual exchange; little different from exchanging a promissory note. I am purchasing a good or service, based (literally) on a promise that the credit card company will settle the debt, and that I will settle the debt with the credit card company. I don't settle that debt in cash either; it's done with a direct payment arranged through my bank, or with a check. I've never seen a Visa kiosk that took cash payments for my credit card bill.
The point I was addressing was that we have become a society that no longer expects or even desires currency. As internet sales grow, cash will become less and less desirable.
Liberty Dollar is very carefull to state very clearly, Liberty Dollars are not legal tender. The company walks a very fine line between pretending it is actually money, while saying it isn't in the fine print. Some of their salespeople (it works sort of like Amway, after you sign someone up, you get a % of every thing they buy), misrepresent that it is legal tender, and get busted. You can barter with a rock or a goat or a liberty dollar at a store if the store wants to.
Sure can. Now, consider what happens if the US collapses from it's national debt. What will the intrinsic value of a dollar be? Seems a gold coin (worth the value of it's own gold) would be a pretty good investment. But as it says on their site, actually owning gold (well, silver) would probably be smarter than trying to own their coins for the strict value of their silver. Either way, it's semantics.
http://intlib.blogspot.com/2006/09/us-mint-claims-norfed-are-federal.html
Here's the title code cited though:
It's an odd section though, as Chapter 25 mainly addresses the use of Counterfeiting. The constitutionality of this law is, in my opinion, a matter for the courts to determine.
What Liberty Dollar does is sell engraved pieces of Metal at prices far above what you can buy from other dealers, call it money (but not legal tender), and they mix it up with an anti government poltical message to get a premium price. The political message also helps them identify people who are guilible enough to fall for it. At least at the Hawaiian mint they did limited runs, so the coins have the potential of having a collectors item value, sort of like a commerative elvis plate or doll.
Where is it said that selling things to gullible people is against the law? I wish I was so clever.
Ron Paul has tried to flirt with these folks (as well as the 911 "Truthers") for support, and it is going to put him out of the race. He either publically dumps and denounces them or he gets shown as a KOOK. If he denounces his main support base he loses his 7% or what ever it is now.
Consider not a single one of his supporters (on here) will come out and say that they believe him when he says he had no idea what Liberty Dollar was doing with his name and picture....
Seems like a lot of light but no heat. I did a little snooping around on the net, and didn't find anything that makes out NORFED to be anything remotely white supremacist, or any other type of hate mongering. NORFED stands for The National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act and the Internal Revenue Code. Sounds like they don't particularly care what color your skin is, so long as you share their direction.
I suppose folks can read for themselves though;
http://www.cyberclass.net/norfedir.htm
http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20020715.htm
Digital Money World
With this in mind, it would seem there'd be no reason Ron Paul should be against the group, nor actively reject what they're espousing.
Stephan
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"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer
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RE: Huge supply of newly minted Ron Paul dollars stolen - 
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