RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket....

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Lordandmaster -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 4:46:38 PM)
I haven't had too many interactions with the police, so I can't give you statistics expressed in percentages, but they've all been about what I expected, and I have pretty high expectations. The only mildly negative experience I can remember was a police officer who laughed at my contention that the traffic light was frozen. I got out of that one in court. quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne This 99% is nothing more than bullshit. 60% of any interaction i have had with the police was less than desireable, and god damn you if you expect them to uphold and respect your rights.

samboct -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 4:59:10 PM)
Hi Butch I've had a chance to mull over the response to the second part of your question- paraphrasing- why do people on CM have a dislike of authority in general? Cops tend to protect the mainstream, and enforce laws, written or otherwise, that make the mainstream feel comfortable. Witness Larry Craig's toe tapping escapade- and that's in a liberal town! Cops have certainly had no trouble enforcing laws against blacks when that was the law of the land, nor against women, nor against any other minority that you'd care to name. In Germany, cops had no trouble putting Jews on the trains to death camps- and went back to work as cops after Germany surrendered. I'll lay very long odds that a majority of cops if they came upon an actual rape scene but with BDSM gear involved would put it down to freaks, weirdos and people who had it coming, because the mainstream still has some trouble accepting that sexuality really has lots and lots of facets. Come on- less than 100 years ago, the missionary position- and only the missionary position was the entire course of human sexuality of, if not the majority, then a sizeable minority. Since BDSM is still often seen as perverse, wicked, or just plain nuts (all the comments made about BDSM have been made about homosexuality- in 50 years- probably less- 10 is more likely, I'll bet this type of play is considered as part of the mainstream), I'm not surprised that many people on these boards don't view the police as their friends. And since you have to be willing to step outside society's "norms" to play the BDSM game, it's also not surprising that some of these folks are rebelling against authority in other areas. This also leads to the question of how many people involved in BDSM are doing it because they like it, and how many are in it for shock value? Sam

kittiekatt -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 5:06:06 PM)
Why do you keep bringing up signing the ticket? He wasn't tazed because he didnt sign it. The cop was ARRESTING him... and the reason doesn't matter. All that matters is the man resisted arrest.

youngsubgeoff -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 5:09:32 PM)
is it any wonder the average person doesnt trust the police?

kdsub -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 5:31:53 PM)
Sam Well spoken and it makes since. But don't you think the attitude of the police follows the general attitude of the population it serves...I mean they are really just people influenced as they grow by society and their upbringing.. As attitudes change...such as with African Americans ...so does the general attitude of the police. America and race relations are slowly getting better...not just for blacks but for all minorities... and I think that change is reflected in the justice system...SLOWLY but better. Like all here I wish change would come faster. Butch

Owner59 -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 5:40:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittiekatt Why do you keep bringing up signing the ticket? He wasn't tazed because he didnt sign it. The cop was ARRESTING him... and the reason doesn't matter. All that matters is the man resisted arrest. It`s clear he was being arrested for not singing the ticket. The kid said "no way" to sighing anything,the cop says "ok get out",and as soon as the kid clears the back of his car,the cop starts the arrest.1,2,and 3. Had he signed the ticket,he wouldn`t have been ordered out of his car and told to turn around to be cuffed.There was no other issue,other than signing the ticket.That is why he was ordered out, and put under arrest. Shying away from a tazer, is only natural.He didn`t resist.He didn`t have the chance to resist. I don`t believe that all police are doing fucked-up things,but I do know of a few cops who`ve done some real fucked up things.They are human and are flawed like every human. This is a bad cop.Hot-headed and not in control.He was spoiling for a throw-down,and scary. He shouldn`t have been put under arrest, for merely refusing to sign a legal/binding document.This strikes me as abusive and repressive. Sign or face arrest,is the lesson here,right?

Real0ne -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 5:51:05 PM)
Well I even went so far as to call the cop up on the stand to testify on what happened and the last thing i expected was they would tell a bold faced lie. i never underestimated them again. quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster I haven't had too many interactions with the police, so I can't give you statistics expressed in percentages, but they've all been about what I expected, and I have pretty high expectations. The only mildly negative experience I can remember was a police officer who laughed at my contention that the traffic light was frozen. I got out of that one in court. quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Geez my seester is a cop, well was a cop. This 99% is nothing more than bullshit. 60% of any interaction i have had with the police was less than desireable, and god damn you if you expect them to uphold and respect your rights. First off they are not here to serve the public that is pure horseshit, they meaning in most communities are charted to serve the courts not the public at large. Traffic tickets is big business. I suppose people sitting on the bench side dont deal with the reality of it on the street. I was being robbed once and called it in as soon as i seen them coming in, skipping all the details the cops finally showed up 15-20 minutes later. i described the kids to them gave them precise heights and colors etc and what they brought back was fucking hilarious. I actually called them dumb sons a colorblind bitches to their face. Nah no need to sing the cop praises to me man.

domiguy -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 5:57:29 PM)
This isn't the "don't taze me bro" situation....This guy was being polite....He asked why he was being pulled over...He asked how fast he was going....He didn't get the answer...I believe there was a misunderstanding on the kids part which the cop did nothing to diffuse or explain the situation....All the cop had to do is say....By signing this ticket you are acknowledging that you received it and that your court date is on this ticket; you have not admitted to being guilty of anything....If you want to go to court that is your option, if you want to go back and look for the signs with the posted speed limit that is your choice if you think it will help in your defense....If you don't sign the ticket you will be place under arrest. How hard would that have been? The cop was a grade A asshole. We have become a country of pussies. Don't question shit and if you ever have contact with a cop it is because you were doing something wrong. They are always right...The kid wasn't swearing or being disrespectful...I think he was really confused by the situation and how quickly the cop unnecessarily allowed it to escalate. We deserve better.

farglebargle -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 6:17:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittiekatt Why do you keep bringing up signing the ticket? He wasn't tazed because he didnt sign it. The cop was ARRESTING him... and the reason doesn't matter. All that matters is the man resisted arrest. What crime was he being arrested for? I did not hear "You are under arrest", until a minute after he was tazed, and then the arresting offense is "You didn't obey my instructions"

farglebargle -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 6:23:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub t r quote: ORIGINAL: Level Working in a court, I've met and gotten to know quite a few cops. A small percentage are control freaks and assholes; another small percentage are absolutely devoted to the idea of public service. The majority are normal men and women, just doing a job. Same here Level... the vast majority are good people… certainly not thugs with badges. It really gets to me when people assign a character to all because of the actions of a few. Since the supposedly "Good Cops" PERMIT the "Bad Cops" to remain on the force, the supposedly "Good Cops" are as bad as the "Bad Cops" for aiding and abetting the "Bad Cops". When the "Good Cops" are "retiring" the "Bad Cops" with extreme prejudice, and they've cleaned up their own messes, then they can begin earning the respect and trust they seem to want.

farglebargle -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 6:24:28 PM)
"He shouldn`t have been put under arrest, for merely refusing to sign a legal/binding document.This strikes me as abusive and repressive." I don't know. I hear a lot of people talking, but no-one has cited Utah Law. I've found this quote: quote: according to UHP's nine-page policy. They are taught to use them in three circumstances: * When a person is a threat to themselves, an officer or another person. * In cases where the physical use of force would endanger the person or someone else. * When other means of lesser or equal force by the officer has been ineffective and a threat still exists. And some other reporting that the officer can just write "Refused to Sign", and just get on with their lives.

kdsub -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 6:38:01 PM)
farglebargle!!!... that was a tongue twister... you shouldn't make a guy with dyslexia read something like that...lol Maybe it was just me but 80 percent of the audio was unintelligible ... too much highway noise...hell who knows what was said by either person... here we are making all these claims of abuse and we really don't know what was said and how it was said. Butch

farglebargle -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 7:06:53 PM)
Well, from what I can hear, UHP officer asks driver to sign, driver says "What for", UHPO "Speeding" Driver: "Let's go look at this 40MPH advisory sign you say I was violating" UHPO: "Sign, Bitch!" Driver: "Nuh, uh." UHPO: "get out of the car, turn around, hands behind back" ( pulls taser ) Driver: "WTF? You're out of your fucking mind" ( walks away ) UHPO: Tases driver. You see, while I did take some dramatic license, it's clear that AT NO TIME PRIOR TO BEING TASED was the driver advised he was under arrest for violating any specific crime, and THEN the UHPO incriminates himself further by saying he's being arrested for not following directions. Bad Hiring, Training, Supervision, Discipline, and Termination practices. Could be a good Civil Lawsuit against the whole UHP.

subrob1967 -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 8:07:07 PM)
I'm wondering if we all watched the same video, and who's smokin what. The kid was being an antagonistic asshole, the officer explained to him why he was pulled over. The cop orders him out of the car, and as they walk back to the cruiser the kid swings his right arm, and says, let's go look at the sign. The cop pulls the tazer and orders the kid to turn around, and place his hands behind his back. The kid argues with the cop, who tells the kid he's gonna tazer him, about what he's being arrested for. The kid then tells the cop he needs to calm down, turns his back on the cop, and as he's walking back to his car, sticks his hand in his front right pocket. If I were the cop, I'd tazer him too. The wife's just lucky the cop didn't draw his weapon and shoot her when she jumped out of the car, and started for the cop. The kid was a smart ass roadside lawyer, and he happened to run into John Q Law. The ONLY thing unprofessional I heard or saw, was the cop telling his back up, "He took a ride on the tazer."

Lordandmaster -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 8:11:17 PM)
subrob: What was he being arrested for? You still haven't explained that.

Owner59 -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 8:24:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 I'm wondering if we all watched the same video, and who's smokin what. The kid was being an antagonistic asshole, the officer explained to him why he was pulled over. The cop orders him out of the car, and as they walk back to the cruiser the kid swings his right arm, and says, let's go look at the sign. The cop pulls the tazer and orders the kid to turn around, and place his hands behind his back. The kid argues with the cop, who tells the kid he's gonna tazer him, about what he's being arrested for. The kid then tells the cop he needs to calm down, turns his back on the cop, and as he's walking back to his car, sticks his hand in his front right pocket. If I were the cop, I'd tazer him too. The wife's just lucky the cop didn't draw his weapon and shoot her when she jumped out of the car, and started for the cop. The kid was a smart ass roadside lawyer, and he happened to run into John Q Law. The ONLY thing unprofessional I heard or saw, was the cop telling his back up, "He took a ride on the tazer." "If I were the cop, I'd tazer him too. The wife's just lucky the cop didn't draw his weapon and shoot her when she jumped out of the car, and started for the cop." She was absolutely horrified and wanted to rush to her husbands aid.A completely natural reaction one would have, for a loved one. For that,you`d have shot her?You have as much control as the cop had. This is why the bar has to be high.Anything less and you have supper troopers going postal.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 8:42:40 PM)
I'm not defending what the cop did, as I have said in previous posts. But everyone keeps asking what was he being arrested for. So I will tell you. You CAN be arrested for a speeding ticket technically. It's one of those officer discretion things in a lot of states. It is in mine. The cop does not have to tell you what you are being arrested for at the moment of arrest. He is allowed to detain you and secure the scene before he explains anything. When you are pulled over and cited for speeding, the cop is issuing you a summons. Whether or not he issues you a summons then releases you or arrests you is at his discretion. The fellow in this video didn't sign the summons, and the officer exercised his discretionary powers and detained him for a crime-speeding. What troubles me in this video is not the arrest. It's the use of the taser. There have not been any significant legal decisions made about it's use because it's only recently been widely adopted by police departments. Cops used to use blackjacks and saps pretty regularly thirty years ago, but most states have outlawed them. Blackjacks are those lead filled leather pouches for those of you that don't know. The tazer may face the same fate, but until someone with the time and money runs it through the legal systerm, it's going to remain one of those controversial issues.

farglebargle -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 8:46:24 PM)
quote: It is in mine. The cop does not have to tell you what you are being arrested for at the moment of arrest. However he DOES need to tell you that you ARE under arrest. Which this UHP Officer neglected to do. Go watch the tape, and confirm it for yourself.

Real0ne -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 8:50:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 The kid then tells the cop he needs to calm down, turns his back on the cop, and as he's walking back to his car, sticks his hand in his front right pocket. If I were the cop, I'd tazer him too. the cop never thought he was in danger. When the kid asked why he would have said "cuz you put your hand in your pocket" but that is not what he said. the appropriate thing to do is hollar freeze then put his hands up against the car if the cop felt he may be in danger. if he did not freeze then taze, however nothing like that happened and use of potentially lethal force is completely unwarranted. what do you expect people to beg cops to tell them what they are under arrest for and read them their rights?

farglebargle -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/24/2007 8:54:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 The kid then tells the cop he needs to calm down, turns his back on the cop, and as he's walking back to his car, sticks his hand in his front right pocket. If I were the cop, I'd tazer him too. the cop never thought he was in danger. When the kid asked why he would have said "cuz you put your hand in your pocket" but that is not what he said. the appropriate thing to do is hollar freeze then put his hands up against the car if the cop felt he may be in danger. if he did not freeze then taze, however nothing like that happened and use of potentially lethal force is completely unwarranted. what do you expect people to beg cops to tell them what they are under arrest for and read them their rights? I could see holding off on reading someone their rights, as long as you don't expect anything they give up prior to that to be admissible. However, UNLESS A COP TELLS YOU THAT YOU ARE UNDER ARREST, HOW ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO KNOW YOU ARE UNDER ARREST? still remains as the important question here.

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