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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/24/2007 5:19:15 PM   
shootingstar67


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I can't tolerate a self destructive dom. If they drink or smoke or even procrastinate and overspend -or even be too self depreciating..

A good rule of thumb is "If they don't mind doing it to themselves, they won't mind doing it to you""

< Message edited by shootingstar67 -- 11/24/2007 5:20:12 PM >


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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/24/2007 5:20:40 PM   
Qithoras


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Fast reply;
I've said it once, I'll probably have to say it a few more times.

I might not want to hear it, but at the end of the day I need to hear it. Honesty above all else.






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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/24/2007 5:33:04 PM   
breatheasone


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TammyJo, I understand what you are saying.....I think it is wise for me to temper my reactions.... Focus on better ways to communicate to my Master, and to be more open to His leading.

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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/24/2007 5:36:53 PM   
Maya2001


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If something was disturbing and troubling me enough, I would feel thenn it needs to be said/discussed in a respectful manner in order to attempt to resolve  and salvage the relationship or prevent it from deteriorating further, if it can't be resolved then is a sign we are not likely compatible only difference would be the timing of when the relationship finally comes to an end  because if not discussed  it will surely end up decaying what does exist of the relationship leaving no possibility to salvage and adding in a lot of extra bitterness/sorrow as well

If falls under the category of honesty and sometimes honesty does hurt and is better than deceit  by keeping the matter to yourself

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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/24/2007 5:39:44 PM   
IrishMist


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quote:

Has anyone ("s" types) seen a pattern of behavior in there "D" type that was truly trouble waiting to happen, but were afraid to broach the subject because you were worried that the afore mentioned "D" type might say..."Thats just how I am, so perhaps I'm not the one for you."

Absolutly.
I never brought it up though because he would have simply said 'tough shit, take it or leave it' and meant it.

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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/24/2007 5:42:04 PM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

As human beings, I think we all tend to be creatures of patterned behaviors, routines, likes and dislikes.   Many of these things, we either accept or desire to change in ourselves.

It can become uncomfortable experience for people to confront or to be confronted regarding weaknesses, flaws, self destructive ways or mannerisms.

I tend to have more respect for those people that tell me what "I need to hear" verses telling me what they feel "I want to hear". 

With regards to things people share with me, it's in my hands as to what I do or do not do.  There are things about myself and my life I will not change for anybody.   Such as playing music.  Cold day in hell before I stop playing guitar to applease somebody else.   There are things to which I will not compromise upon.   

Perhaps the hardest thing to achieve is to "Discern" what is a real issue or problem that requires me to change my ways or not.  Just because somebody precieves something as an issue or problem does not mean that it is.   For instance, I don't care what ever person thinks or feels about me.   It's not mission in life to live my life around what everbody else thinks, feels or reacts to me.    Now, this is a little ironic because when I'm playing music or performing in front of people, the whole audience does matter to me.   To entertain and put on a show for a crowd.    But when it comes to personal one on one matters, you either like me, love me, hate me or dislike me... whatever.   

But when somebody (close friend, loved one, family member) speaks thier mind and is bold enough to say things, that most people would piss themselves at finding the words to say.  Then I listen take what they are saying into account.   But I have to also consider thier own Bias, thier own perspective, self interests or whatever else in the matter.   Just because somebody elses perception of a matter is one way, does not mean that it's true.  

Regardless of the issue, perhaps there is something I can do better to make certain I don't feed into somebody's false perception.   Perhaps it's a real issue and I need to change or deal with things better.    It's all part of Growing.  Personal growth. 

We as human being are creatures of a habit(s).  People can be comfortable in thier own skin (including flaws, faults).  It's always easier to pass judgements and find faults in others compared to being open to making changes our own comfortable lives.

Changes don't happen overnight either,  sure people can talk about changes, issues and problems.  But it is a process, a series or steps, adjustments in mental thought processes and actions.  Many people give up on trying to change things about themselves and lives because they don't feel supported nor encouraged.   So they throw their hands up in the air, frustrated at not being able to change things faster and fix the problems over night.  

So, if a "s" type is bold enough to confront to a "D" type regarding an flaw or fault.   The "s" type also needs to be aware that they need to be the Cheering section towards the changes.   Simply Bitching or pointing out a problem to a "D" type is not enough.   Us "D" types also need patience and understanding just like all you "s" types do. 

Guess what I'm saying here, is that change and the support of loved ones is important for both "D" and "s" types together.  Us Dom/Master don't simply spring forth out of the Earth as All Powerful, All Knowing, Fault Free Creatures... we are just as human as all the "s" types.    In many regards the Stereotyping of what a "D" type should be, adds a little extra pressure, that "D" types should never show any signs of human weakness.   We should be somehow perfect and fault free... that if we admit or talk about our own faults we are somehow less Dom or Masterful in life.

There are probally a number of "D" types that are reading this, that know they gain more strength, self control and power through being able to confront themselves, face their own faults, fears and weaknesses.   There are probally a number of "D" types reading this that value and appreciate it when an "s" type is bold enough to point things out.   

Again, I stress the importance for "s" types to be patience, understanding and supportive.  Don't expect "D" types to make changes overnight.   Us "D" types tend to be our own boss, we will be hard on ourselves, it's a bit of a private affair for many "D" types.   Us "D" types might already be bitching to ourselves about ourselves regarding our own short comings.  Does not leave much room for us to hear the same complaint coming from an "s" type at times.  

Guess, what I'm saying to all the submissive types out there is to be supportive of change.   It's nice to have a cheering section, somebody that appreciates the baby steps, efforts towards change.   Many "D" types, don't like "s" types getting in so close because it can open up the doors to being mentally manipulated.   Basically, us "D" types don't like to make our button available for somebody else to push and play with.    All and all this comes down to something called "Trust".

Sure, a submissive needs to Trust thier Dom/Master.  However, the Dom/Master must also be able to trust the submissive as well.   People can and do tend to be manipulative creatures by nature.. yeah and even you subbie types do it, actually some of you subbie types are experts at it.  Then again, you guys have your ways of doing this to keep a D/s relationship in check, keeping us "D" on our toes.






This was awesome Whip....My Master thinks much along these same lines...and i AM His biggest cheerleader...His soft place to land....His encourager....His Best Friend,  He is all these things to me as well.....I love Him so much...and am SO grateful to Him for His patience with me that the thought of "criticizing" Him in ANY way makes me queezy.

< Message edited by breatheasone -- 11/24/2007 5:44:06 PM >


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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/24/2007 5:50:52 PM   
kyraofMists


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Yes, he does things that in my opinion are not the best choice to make.  There have been a couple where I was scared to talk to him about them.  If I have an opinion that I wish to give, I ask permission to express it.  If he gives me permission, then I state my opinion.  Then it really is his choice to decide what he will do. 

Sometimes he agrees with my opinion, but continues the behavior anyway because that is what he wants.  Sometimes he agrees with me and instructs me to remind him to change the behavior.  Sometimes he disagrees with me and continues the behavior. 

If the behavior is not harming me, Alandra, him or the relationship then I let it go.  If I find that over time the behavior is harmful to the relationship, then I would ask to discuss it again.

Knight's Kyra


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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/24/2007 6:00:05 PM   
Owner4SexSlave


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Self destructive behaviors, cultural trends and movements.

I wanted to take a moment and toss a few things out here.   Since the phrase "Self Destructive" behavior has popped up. 

It's pretty much a no brainer that drugs like "Crack" or "Heroin" are Self Destructive without a question.  These are hardcore drugs that are very addictive.   People doing these drugs will resort to doing all kinds of things, selling off property, stealing and other bad things.  

Now, some people do have addictive personalities.  Where they don't know when to stop drinking.   However, drinking itself.. can this be labeled as a self destructive behavior?   Only if it causes problems in a persons life.   I don't mean where somebody has an problem with somebody drinking either.   Some people have a problem or issue with somebody just having ONE drink. 

If somebody drinks to the point, it causes themselves great harm then it's a problem.   Yes, I said Great Harm.   We as human beings are harming ourselves, our society and surroundings every day.    Be it the trash we dump into land fills, the comestics that get used on the face, the food we eat even.    But what can our bodies tolerate and bounce back from or not is the question.    Sure, somebody having a few too many drinks now and then is causing harm to themselves.   It's a no brainer, but we are causing ourselves harm in so many other ways as well.

Smoking is another issue.  True it causes harm to ourselves.   Some people can smoke thier whole life and never get cancer.  Others seem to be prone to smoking causing them great harm, others not so.  

OK, everbody knows pot is not legal in many areas of the US and other places.  However, in some places it's perfectly legal to smoke it and grow it for personal use.  Does pot cause everybody Great Harm, a little harm?

We all harm ourselves with something at some point in time.   Many people drink and do light weight drugs or even smoke because yes, it does something to 'em.    Does this mean thier whole life is outta control that they are going to drop dead overnight.   Whatever happened to something called "Freedom",  freedom to harm ourselves?  Fuck All, I'm sharing this with a group of BDSMers who harm themselves and others with physical or mental pain.  

Does this mean we all have to be smoke free, totally drink free... eating Too Fu Crunch cereal with Soy Milk... eating only Kosher meats and popping vitamins?   Does this mean we all should be more focused upon our recycling efforts at home?  

By the way did you realize that the Perfumes and Colognes we all wear out in public can and do cause severe Allergic reactions and breathing problems in other people?   This is why some work places have policies regarding this.   Yet, we don't hear enough of this on the news. 

Let's see, what's the point I'm trying to make here.  I was gonna mention points about how the founding fathers of the US, some of them used to use Cocaine.  In fact Cocaine used to be part of many people's fav soft drink - "Coke".   Ben Franklin used to be one of the coke heads of early days.   But we don't hear everybody running his name down into the ground, talking about how self destructive he was.   Hell, good old Ben Invented a lot of Shit... had many great ideas that made the World a better place.  Good old Ben did a lot of great things, that has saved countless lives and made life better for us all.  

So these are all thoughts to take into consideration when looking at other people, and making the "Self Destructive" call on somebody.   Are you casting this label onto them because you are following some cultural moral trendy thing... or is it really a problem that is causing the other person great harm in life? 

There have been a lot of people with so called self destructive behaviors that have been the greatest contributors towards making the world and society a better place.   Just some food for thought here...



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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/24/2007 6:32:14 PM   
angelslave77


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I would not hesitate to bring something up to my Sir (repectfully of course) if I felt it were a problem that was impacting U/us or even if it bothered me to a point of distraction. Would I expect change simply because I brought it up NO of course not, but what I would expect would be a respectful open discussion on the matter where we can both share out thoughts and then go from there.

I will give an example Sir and I are LDR at the moment and missing each other greatly and a couple of nights in a row he had drank far far to much (ok yeah a couple of nights I hear you say so what). This is totally out of character for him and his reason for drinking to me were worrisome. So we had a discussion about it, and it allowed me to share that a huge part of my worry was because both my grandfather and uncle were alcholics and all addictions start somewhere. I have no issue with drinking when it is a social out with friends having fun thing but Sir was doing it alone as a means of relaxing/escaping and it scared the hell out of me, and if I had let it go it would have eaten away at me, he would have sensed something was wrong and that in itself would have caused problems.

So I personally think if a D type cant even discuss an issue when an s type has raised it respectfully then that certainly would not be a D type that I would wish to be around.

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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/24/2007 6:59:34 PM   
slaveluci


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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone
Has anyone ("s" types) seen a pattern of behavior in there "D" type that was truly trouble waiting to happen, but were afraid to broach the subject because you were worried that the afore mentioned "D" type might say..."Thats just how I am, so perhaps I'm not the one for you."

Hey Candy,
I can think of a pattern of behavior I've seen in Master that is troublesome.  It is one of being disorganized and this extends into the area of finances.  I'm not talking out of school here because He is well aware of His problems in that area.  He ultimately controls the money that we each earn but He has had some real problems in the past with organizing His bill paying, staying current, not getting late fees, not getting shut-off notices, etc.  He has great intentions but it's just a real problem for Him to truly stay on top of things.

Once I had moved to AR and especially once I began working, I decided I had to bite the bullet and broach the subject.  I wasn't afraid of being told the "like it or leave" or anything like that, but I truly didn't want Him to feel I was trying to control Him or how He does things.  The final straw was when He forgot to pay the home phone bill and we lost service as well as our DSL internet connection.  He did this not once, but twice!  He was so embarrassed He welcomed my input at that point.  He knows I'm very efficient and organized and He welcomed my help.  I set up a spreadsheet for Him, we bought an accordian-file bill organizer, and I helped Him get started getting everything caught up.  The money was there, it just needed to be organized.

I'm happy to say that, though I was initially a bit hesitant and, like you, did NOT want to embarrass Him at all, it has worked out wonderfully.  All the bills are caught up, we have excess $$$, and He's proud of what He's accomplishing because He sees tangible results.  If I hadn't spoken up, who knows what would have happened?  I encourage you to respectfully broach the subject, in the spirit of love which I know you feel for him, and hope for the best.  It worked for us................luci

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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/24/2007 7:09:22 PM   
ownedgirlie


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~ Fast Reply ~

If it's just an annoying idiosyncracy or something minor like that, then no, I embrace it as part of his personality.  He has several personality "quirks" that I have come to love as part of who he is.

If it is something more serious than that, yes, I bring it up carefully.  I unconfrontationally share what is troubling me and why it is troubling me, and ask if he will consider my alternative options or any other options he thinks of.  And then I let it go.  It is not often I do this, so when I do he knows I likely have a valid issue worth considering.  In these cases, I always feel heard, no matter what he decides. 

We have recently been discussing his age and his health and what happens when he becomes infirmed. I have had several questions and suggestions to consider, and he has welcomed my input as he knows it comes from a place of care and concern for us both. Lately he has allowed me to make more suggestions regarding his diet, which is a big relief to me.  But I must be careful of too much of a good thing, ya know, lol.   He doesn't want to hear about it daily.  But I have been known to simply list the contents and nutritional value of Food A and compare it to alternative Food B, and ask if he'd be willing to try B.  If he says yes, then I buy and give him B and leave it alone.  He's been known to follow up with "Hey this is pretty good" or "No fucking way". 

It's really in how you present something.  You can deliver most any message if you present it respectfully and considerately.

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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/24/2007 7:11:56 PM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

TammyJo, I understand what you are saying.....I think it is wise for me to temper my reactions.... Focus on better ways to communicate to my Master, and to be more open to His leading.


Well, I think of it as taking care of myself and letting my spouse, who has similar traits to your master in this regard, take care of himself and live with the consequences of his personality.

I can't say how it should or would work in a DS relationship beyond what I would tolerate myself in my household. I would not take on a sub or slave who had those particular traits because one person is enough for me and if I'm honest, as I try to be at all times, then I do actually expect more from a DS relationship than I do a vanilla one. Not fair, probably not as realistic as I could be and yet there it is.

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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/24/2007 11:39:04 PM   
MaamJay


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Hi candy

Good question and you've had some great replies. I second rawkmehard about not letting it fester, and the poster (sorry, forgot who) who suggested writing it down and letting Him read it alone. I also agree with those who have said don't let the fear win, and with Tammyjo who suggests that ultimately the only one YOU can change is you, so you might need to learn how to let go of the hurt.

All that said, as a D, if something I was doing was hurting My sub's feelings ... and there was a good chance I didn't realise that ... I would definitely want to know and I wouldn't be flashing back with some kind of ultimatum. I'd listen and take it on board and think about it for as long as I needed to and then discuss it freely. In the example you have given, a lack of follow through ... I would be examining why this is happening. Is it that the road to hell is paved with good intentions? Is it that I am being a bit slack sometimes? Or is that I am flat out and frantic and things just escape Me? Once I have a handle on the cause(s) then I would be discussing with My sub some strategies to at least lessen the problem. I might make her accountable for more things so that she is the one doing the follow-up! Or perhaps come up with a little codeword or sign as a simple reminder to Me that I'm forgetting something. Taking some positive steps like that should help the D-type to change to a degree (don't expect miracles, but hope for progress) and should also help you to realise that it's not deliberate and that He doesn't want to be careless of your feelings.

Good luck hon!
Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/24/2007 11:44:52 PM   
sexyone4you


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I think the answer is simple, but acting on it isn't so easy.  The "obvious" answer is that the slave needs to be able to talk about any concerns he/she has with her Dom(me)/Top/Master/Mistress.  Trust is the foundation for any relationship - even more so in the D/s lifestyle. If there is something that needs to be addressed, then go for it in a respectful way.  It could be that the two aren't a good match.  Safety needs to come first.  If the "D" is out of control, how can the "s" expect the "D" to control him/her when the "D" can't even control him/herself?

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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/24/2007 11:54:55 PM   
PonyGroom


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quote:





< Message edited by PonyGroom -- 11/24/2007 11:56:30 PM >

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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/24/2007 11:57:43 PM   
kirby104


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So much for caring. He'll probably wind up alone and miserable, but he'll be blameless since  no one could accept him for who he is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveofKaos

I have been in the situation where I aproached my Dominant about something and I got the response "well maybe we don't have as much in common as I thought" I then told him it had nothing to do with what we had in common and I got the response "well this is who I am and I can't change who I am, if I could I would. I would rather end up alone and miserable than to have someone in m life who can't deal with the way I am."

I was thrown off guard by everything that he said as i've never come across anyone in my life who talked like this, but then I learned that this particular Dominant wasn't like anyone else i've ever known in my entire life. His thoughts and the way he thinks, I don't know ow to explain it, but he definatly needs to see a therapist.

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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/25/2007 12:15:57 AM   
breatheasone


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I spoke with my Master tonight and we both agreed that together we can do anything.... Communication is most important and we both want to do the best we can in that area. What was MOST comforting to hear was that no matter what He and I have to work on.... We rest in the knowledge that we have a solid foundation to build it on....and we do it together....

What i didnt want to happen was for it to seem that the relationship was in danger...but rather there was something important brewing that needed attention. Master "heard" me when I spoke to Him tonight. Whether He understood everything i said or not, is not the thing, What's important  is that He listened, and I know I was heard.

We have growing and learning to do for sure. Neither He nor I are perfect, but we are perfect for each other.

MaamJay, Thank you so much for your insight...Its awesome as usual.



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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/25/2007 12:17:37 AM   
sexyone4you


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I'm glad everything worked out for you!  Congrats!

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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/25/2007 12:18:56 AM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyone4you

I'm glad everything worked out for you!  Congrats!

Thats very kind...thank you...I am truly a Blessed woman.


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RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? - 11/25/2007 5:42:02 AM   
batshalom


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It is good to see that you did something you feared to do and got a positive response from it. ~smiling~ Next time, perhaps, you will be less afraid to voice your concerns. I wish you both well.

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