stella41b
Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Stella, if you was joking about Stalin then i was wrong to use the word contempt, i interpreted what you wrote and not the fact you was joking. While we are on about Stalin, The idea of the United nations was actually Winston Churchills, but i digress. You were the first to mention Thatcher, and as far as i am aware, i havent mentioned right wing at all. Only what it was like before communism and afterwards. What has Thatcher got to do with events in Poland, or for that matter the rise of the right wing. She took on the unions in the Uk and that was, in the view of many, a good thing. Talk about the miners, blame Scargill, he said he was going to bring down this ( democratically elected i may add ) government. Do you suggest he should have been allowed to do so. Blame Thatcher for everything, shes an easy target. Toxteth, Brixton, ect. Dont apportion any blame to the rioters but then answer me this, Here we are 25 years on, go to Brixton and see whats changed, even since Labour came to power ten years ago... Nothing, nada, zilch, the poor still get screwed, its how its always been and i doubt if it will change. Tell me about being poor, i grew up drinking from jam jars, so i have a bit of a clue. The working class in the UK have always been screwed, and the Unions screwed us some more by being political instead of trying to improve things. People get into power and enjoy the trappings, and for the most part any ideals they held close vanish, you only have to look at the present lot to see that.
Lets mention the guys you saw pissing on a homeless man, what politics did they hold, left wing ? right wing ? the answer doesnt matter, they acted like that because they were pathetic drunks, sadly it goes on.
I will read the links you posted about Poland but you stated yourself those people are here to work for monetary reasons. Blame the Polish government, Lech Kaczynski isnt a nice person, i grant you that. He stopped the gay right parades when he was mayor of Warsaw, but, and this is my point, He still got elected. I still say Poland is better off now than it was 20 years ago.
If you are hoping to find a better life there, i really hope you get what you are looking for.
Politesub53... it was probably my misunderstanding that you were over 'on the right'... apologies.
What has Thatcher got to do with Poland? Was it not Thatcher who together with Reagan sought to bring an end to the Cold War and communism? Oh and was it not Margaret Thatcher who persuaded George Bush senior to declare war on Iraq for invading Kuwait in 1990?
It was her government and people who killed off the British mining industry - an industry which like all our others needed restructuring, not destroying or selling off - by importing cheaper Polish coal, and then when that proved too expensive and a cheaper alternative was found, the Polish mining industry was destroyed and cheaper Ukrainian coal was imported.
Yes and no. Yes, because she was Prime Minister, and no because her policies were formed by a group of people. People like Robert Maxwell, people like Rupert Murdoch, these are the people who run our country, not the politicians.
Yes, she sorted out the unions, and yes, it was a good thing, I agree. Arthur Scargill was right, but he was obnoxious, pompous, and had his own political agenda. Scargill played his own part in destroying the British coal industry through refusing to compromise. But Thatcher also 'sorted' a lot of other people in this country, in fact everybody with her crazy ideas of 'productivity' and everything being run for profit.
I don't blame the rioters, having lived through the Manningham riots in Bradford in 1981. I agree with you Politesub53 but would go further to say the British people and everyone else, including all the foreigners, migrant workers, asylum seekers and refugees have been screwed.
Why has nothing changed? Because the same people are always in power, and it doesn't and will not matter who you vote for, they will always be in power. They are in power not just in Britain, but in the States, and in Europe. Their aims are always the same, to get control of resources - energy resources like oil, coal, gas, and manpower, and exploit those resources for productivity and profit. This is what globalism is all about. This is why the European Union was formed.
I write from personal experience, and three people who cannot be trusted are actors, journalists, and politicians. They make their living from words, from speaking and writing the 'correct' words, the right words. Margaret Thatcher had good intentions, so did Lech Walesa, so did John Major, Tony Blair, so too has Gordon Brown, but good intentions don't get you very far in politics.
I don't subscribe to communism (or any other present political system) as an acceptable form of government. Communism has got nothing to do with the theories of Engels and Marx, communism creates a hierarchy of the 'elite', the 'Party faithful', and the proletariat. It is a form of government which has never been fairly applied, not in Eastern Europe, nor in China, Vietnam, North Korea. It doesn't respect the rights of the individual, human rights, and this is shown right through history.
I favour political leaders who keep their principles, people like Ken Livingstone, like Colonel Gaddafi in Libya, and such. Nobody has defeated Ken Livingstone, but those in power are afraid of him, and he's done rather well in my opinion running London as its Mayor, and I would challenge anyone to name me someone better for the position of Prime Minister, but of course we're talking here of an ideal situation. My own view is that party politics has run its course, and we need a new political solution.
Sure Lech Kaczynski was democratically elected. And I understand why. I was still living in Poland during the fiasco of the Leszek Miller post-communist government. Off the top of my head since 1990 Poland has had about fifteen different Prime Ministers, and three presidents, Lech Walesa, Aleksander Kwasniewski, and Lech Kaczynski.
About the guys pissing on the homeless man, I assume that they're right wing. Why? I see the media barons like Murdoch as being right wing, and it appears to most of the editors in our media and entertainment industry that picking on people less fortunate than you, telling lies about them and persecuting and victimizing them is not only perfectly socially acceptable, but also good entertainment and necessary for the benefit of the economy. It's good for the economy because it keeps everyone on their toes, makes people suspicious of each other, and through this allows those in power to maintain power through divide and rule.
Consider also that some years ago I did some research for the Simon Weisenthal Institute in New York who wanted to invest in a Museum of Anti-Communism in Poland. I know all about the Holocaust in Poland, the Warsaw Ghetto, I've been to sites of the former camps of Majdanek, Treblinka, Sobibor, but also to the lesser known camps as Tulipan, the site of the current Warsaw West railway station, looked into the pogrom in Kielce in 1946, the mass deportations of Jews from Poland in March 1968. These things happened. Go see Polanski's film 'The Pianist', about the life of Wladyslaw Szpilman in the Warsaw Ghetto and how he managed to survive the Second World War in Warsaw. These things happened.
I am strongly in favour of multi-culturalism, in fact it's the basis of my artistic work and why I went to Poland to work in theatre anyway. One of my core and fundamental beliefs is tolerance, not unconditional tolerance because I know that freedom carries with it responsibility which not everybody accepts and which quite a few are inclined to abuse, but I work in my own specific area of theatre, cross-cultural theatre, and have recently developed my own theory of modern theatre - which is why I'm spending so much time at this computer writing about this theory.
This is why I would rather people like Kaczynski would keep his mouth shut about crimes committed against Poles during the Second World War and about gays, lesbians and instead focus on the more pressing problem caused by the downfall of the former regime, the reforms of Lech Walesa and the later Solidarity government and the economic problems caused by shutting out Russia, Poland's biggest trading partner.
Same too in this country... I'm getting tired of hearing about bogus asylum seekers, immigration problems, benefit scroungers, paedophiles, celebrity culture, surveys, and whole lot of meaningless trivial information. I'm getting tired of being dictated to by the media over what I should wear, how I should think, what I should do and being constantly brainwashed and put through fear motivation (fear of poverty, fear of unemployment, fear of benefits) to be considered 'socially acceptable' and a happy productive corporate slave and equally a happy little consumer.
Leaving this country isn't going to be easy, I love Britain, I love the people, until recently we were a very open, friendly, tolerant society, such that you couldn't find anywhere else in Europe, and the British people are genuinely very friendly, open and hospitable. So too are the others. I live openly as myself within sight of the Battersea Power Station, and I know it's the many areas in London with the immgrants, foreigners and a mix of other people which are still the friendly, open, tolerant areas, the poorer areas of London. The situation changes drastically when you move into other areas where one culture dominates, and here I have in mind places like Peckham, Abbey Wood, Eltham, and a lot of places outside London.
I refuse to accept the intolerance, resentment and prejudice shown to other people just because they are different. I refuse to accept this new culture where it's okay to be loud, rude, arrogant, aggressive, selfish, uneducated, ignorant where you can openly show hatred and animosity to people just because they are poor or different. I refuse to accept a culture which sees age and maturity as a weakness, or kindness and honesty as weakness.
But it's also personal. It's now over two years since I've seen any of my work on a stage. I'm tired of doing all the work on the promise of funding to later find that the funding has magically disappeared, which tends to make me look rather stupid to the people I work with.
Therefore I'm going to where I've been offered work. Anything to me is better than the prospect of sitting around doing nothing on benefits.
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