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RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 8:32:21 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
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Status: offline 		If you want a great reference about me I will give you one.

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RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 8:36:15 AM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DulcetDuress

Intelligently stated and it is safe to say we can agree to disagree based on literal points made and taken.


Absolutely true.  I do not portray what I or others like me practice as *the* way that works for anyone other than me (or others like me), and only share it here to the extent that those reading along may have sufficient information to decide for themselves what works for them. 

quote:


Hm..as a sidenote, you look like JR Ewing.


I hear that frequently, though I'm never sure whether it's a compliment or not.  On the one hand Larry Hagman had Jeannie (Barbara Eden in her prime).  On the other hand, he's now 76 years old, has had a liver transplant, and doesn't look quite so good. 
 
John

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RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 8:38:54 AM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

However, I am also one of those who advise not to play or become involved with someone without taking the time to get to know them; which would mean...investing the time needed.


On that we both agree.  It's just that I choose to spend part of my time right up front trying to confirm what someone has told me, rather than continue to invest my time and effort in someone who has concocted an elaborate fairy tale.
 
John

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RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 8:49:45 AM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I would like to add, that when people give names for references,  they seldom give someone who is gonna call you an asshole

Jeff


It stands to reason that people use references in different ways.  And while some may use them to ascertain what someone's personality is like, and whether they are "nice" or "good" or any other kind of subjective conclusion, many others like myself prefer to do so ourselves. 
 
We tend to use references for less subjective information, to confirm what we have been told... like their actual marital/relationship status, whether they are collared or have others collared, whether they really are involved in their local community, whether they really do attend workshops/demos/presentations, whether they really do (fill in the blank with whatever claim has been made... like whether they are presenters themselves, have demonstrated skills sets, etc.).
 
I think folks in this thread are focused upon the subjective, rather than what people actually lie about... the objective.  They lie about their marital status.  They lie about their participation or standing in their local community, they lie about their experience/skills.  Those claims are either true or untrue, and demonstrably so.
 
We all determine for ourselves whether they lied about the subjective... whether they are "good" or "nice".  And the only thing that makes them true or untrue is our personal subjective evaluation.
 
John

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RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 8:51:15 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		I think references have their place but mostly about play and nothing to do about relationships. I do not think a reference from someone who knows the person from their local community is anything more then a statement of “this person plays nice in public”.

I do not disagree with what Rover said except for the fact that that casting a stone on people who are not active in local community is self serving and justified with only anecdotal evidence at best. Anyone can make comments like these to try to make their point more justified.

As most have said a reference is up to the person and still should only be used as part of many things. Personally for me, I am wanting a 24/7 relationship and would find a person touting their play, local community activity and the number of submissives they have helped to be a negative compared to a person who has never done one thing in a local community but had a long term relationship with just one person that was power exchange.

In terms though how most use references on this site from my search and also awhile back when I was active in a local community it was just another thing in a long line of things that dominants try to make something intangible into something tangible. In what seems like the never ending attempts to somehow qualified their superior ness to people they have never met. It simply was my experience that references are not bad at all but the motivations of the people who want to make them important were lets say less than genuine.


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RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 9:01:27 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I cannot believe this thread!

References are a tool, use the right one in the right way and they are useful, used poorly and they aren't.

There are people in my community who would say I am a "bad dom" but I don't think there is anyone who would say I am dangerious.  I think that most of the leaders would have good things to say even if they brutally honest.  So the picture random references would paint about me could vary but if the heads of a couple of groups told someone they would be lucky to be with me and a couple individuals said I was "bad" then draw your own conclusions.  The chances of someone locating my few partners is slim and none but the ones who I didn't cause to leave the state would mostly sing my praises.  The two who I know would call me a "bad dom" are ones who spurned my advances when I pushed them too hard.  In one case she has a good case, in the other she is a a bit of a drama queen.

(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 9:07:32 AM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with toserv. If I were looking for a community player then maybe references would be important; but since what I look for (when I look for it) is a relationship dynamic and not a community dynamic, then references are useless for me. If I were to give references, I would have to use vanilla friends, coworkers, etc., simply because I am not currently active in the public scene and have no desire to be. Giving past Doms' names and contact information, to me, is a huge breach of etiquette and I wouldn't consider it. It would be like asking a potential boyfriend for past girlfriend references. We are either compatible or we are not, and all it takes to figure it out is time and desire to do so.

(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 9:09:16 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Exactly, Michael. I once had a submissive call me a pussy, because I would not cut her. She was bound at the time, so it could have been a very bad call on her part, but thats another story. My point is, does that make me a bad Dom?. She would argue it does, I would disagree

Jeff

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 9:17:17 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline 		I hate to keep re-posting but I don't think I can say it any better now than I did awhile back and I still feel exactly the same way.  So, here's what I said about references before:

ORIGINAL: softpjOS
it was strictly stated about a Dominant being questionably *real* (ack that word!) if they are not willing to provide references to a potential sub.  Those references being from someone well known within the community....

"Oh crap!  My Master is as "real" as "real" gets in my eyes and I didn't check "references" with people "well known within the community."  First of all, I don't give a damn about how some other sub sees Him.  I trust my own judgment and His word.  That would have gone over like a lead balloon: "I love You and I want to become Your slave but first I need a list of people well-known in the BDSM community that I can go get gossip from about You.  Then, I'll decide if we should proceed."  Yeah, ok. 
 
Secondly, the whole concept of there even being some little cozy, closeknit community always looking out for each others' best interests just doesn't really float with me.  I'm sure it happens sometimes but I've heard soooo much about all the crap that becomes divisive within local groups.  Trusting people implicitly who may have less than shining motives is not wise.  And why would someone "well known" have an opinion any more important than a "regular" person?  There are many well known people I have zero respect for.  
 
This whole question/concept just kind of blows my mind.  I can't imagine checking up on Master with a bunch of people whose only commonality with Him is that they are into BDSM.  That makes them experts on who He is?  Nonsense."............luci   
 


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RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 9:39:02 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I use my own judgement with people.  I am out in my local community, but if someone who knew NO ONE wanted to know about me, what would the words of strangers mean?

The most useful piece of intel I can get about someone:  are they really single?  The coconut telegraph is very handy for finding out things like that. 

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RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 9:39:25 AM   
Stephann


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From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Chainsaws, Good Idea or Bad?

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RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 9:45:19 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
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Status: offline 		Ruins to much meat


"Jeffrey Domer"

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 9:55:06 AM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		My personal opinion on this is that we are making all of this too blame complicated.  Everyone has a right to an opinion. As far as I am concerned, as long as you don't copy and paste something and put your name on it, that is wrong.
But to ramble here on the open net, references are hog wash.
 
Regards, MissSCD

(in reply to FullfigRIMaam)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 10:35:37 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Just My opinion, but there's nothing wrong with references in certain situations.  When I became a member of My local group, they asked me about references to My prior group.  No earth shattering secrets exploited there.  When I go to the dungeon I frequent, I have no objection to anyone asking others who may have seen Me play about My style or anything else that might have been observed.  As to relationships, however, nobody is going to be able to judge that, except yourself.

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RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 10:57:59 AM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		Help!!! Gribbit! Gribbit!

It's threads like this which make me doubt my sanity... is it really me?

People, please, we're talking BDSM. I mean, what next? A resume, CV and motivational letter? A 200 page autiobiography?

Okay, maybe it's me who's a complete nutcase here, but to me if you don't KNOW whether you've got a suitable play partner standing in front of you they're either not OR you need to forget about BDSM and get to know them better.

Unless of course you prefer to recruit friends and partners rather than get to know them.

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RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 11:17:22 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

It's just that I choose to spend part of my time right up front trying to confirm what someone has told me, rather than continue to invest my time and effort in someone who has concocted an elaborate fairy tale.
 
John


Cool, you can then listen to the concocted fairy tale that the person concerned and their friends and colleagues have come up with.
 
~fr~
1.Who's standards are these references given by? The referee? The person recieving the reference? The person the reference is about?
2. Who decides who you will get a reference off? After all noone is going to give you a referee they know will say bad things about them?
3.What happened to good old getting to know someone and judging for yourself?
 



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RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 11:19:45 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Ruins to much meat


"Jeffrey Domer"


chops out freezer burn.

Less  filling.............


John Wayne Gacy

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RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 11:29:52 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Ruins to much meat


"Jeffrey Domer"


chops out freezer burn.

Less  filling.............


John Wayne Gacy



Don't tell US about freezer burn!

The Donner Party

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 11:44:25 AM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		i usualy agree, about referances, and justhow "usefull" they really are,  but I did ask about someone here, and I heard he was mentally unbalanced and had herpee's and threatend a woman with outing her and showing up at her kids school. and so one day I just droped it into the conversation so are you drug and disease free and he says actually I was waiting to tell you I have herpee's. and I said oh, ok well since we're not going to be having sex that's ok. That's when he started showing his true colors.

So, she was right he was off his rocker, and her warning gave me a heads up.
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Just cutting and pasting my response made there already:


Using your head, using your instincts, proceeding carefully and listening/thinking/talking is much more important that any reference. 

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 12/3/2007 11:46:59 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		Acids are short term preservatives

John Christie

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