scottjk
Posts: 335
Joined: 4/18/2005
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Okay, so I was a little light hearted here, but I just HAVE to step in here...
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ORIGINAL: WickedPrince
1> A reference needn't include an incredibly detailed list of somebodies BDSM skills and talents and history. It just needs to prove that the individual knows SOMEONE who likes them. Hopefully then you will too. And this person doesn't need to have any sort of kinky context. Personally I'd place a lot more weight on a reference who was just a good friend that has spent time around them then somebody who has watched them play for a bit at a party or two.
Easily handled... go OUT with them. There's no reason why you can't go to vanilla parties, xmas parties, birthday parties, double dating, group events, cultural events, etc. I think the problem here is the USE of the word 'reference'. However, historically, there was a time when friends would make introductions, playing match maker. However, I personally consider it strange to keep a list of 'references' in my pocket like a codom packet, 'just in case'. What gets me is that all this online crap has removed the human condition in meeting people with similar interests. So-called 'experts' like to dress up thier ideas such as 'references' just so they can appear wise. The issue here is practicality.
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2> Insisting that your own personal instincts are the ONLY method you trust seems foolish. IF our instincts were so accurate then the first person we ever dated would be the person we loved for the rest of our lives. This RARELY happens, because as we get to know the person through ongoing interaction we discover more about them, often including things that turn out to be deal-breakers.
I disagree, and I never said 'only'. What I said is that if you can't trust your instincts, you've got other problems to work out first. A lot of reasons people don't trust thier instincts isn't because they're faulty, it's because they IGNORE them, instead favoring what they'd like to see in a person, than who they actually are, or buying the bullshit that person is selling. Some people call it thier 'people radar' and can spot a problem person a mile away. You validate your instincts by spending time with them while maintaining safe boundries.
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3> Referances are used by a variety of sources including the U.S. Government and MANY corporations that might be looking into hiring somebody, or loan them money, or for a variety of reasons. There is no need to explain WHY you are asking for such a reference from the person you were referred to.
I think you lost track of the context here. This is about ASKING for references about some one, at least, that's how I read it, not employment. In any case, this statement is called a BACKGROUND CHECK, and it's entirely a different animal and extremely useful, both in what isn't found and what is found. As explaining why? Yes, you do have to. While I can't deny anyone from doing a background check, I can certainly withold information to facilitate that for very, very good reasons. However, in terms of a reference, yes, I'd want an explanation, and in turn, I would provide one. Especially where my friends are concerned. This point isn't really valid in any case.
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4> I have to wonder if the rejection of the usefulness of references isn't just an attempt to legitamize the general habit most people have of ignoring others advice about potential partners? I wonder how many of us would have to admit we ignored a "reference" about somebody because "our instincts" told us that the advice was wrong, and then had to live with the "I told you so's" when the people whose advice we ignored turned out to be right in the end?
Hardly. It's about keeping the B.S. to a minimum and to remove useless roadblocks in developing a relationship with some one. Ideas are wonderful things, and by themselves are not good or bad. It's when they are presented with the concept, "If you don't do this, you deserve what you get!" instantly turns into a bad idea from the start. Pushing an idea with fear rather than logic is just plain wrong. To decide if an idea is useful, it has to go through a process of discussion, that will either result in acceptance or rejection. Unfortunately, this is often not the case and very horrible things happen as a result of the universal acceptance of an idea that causes harm. Personally, again, the concept of refernces in a relationship is limited, and really only useful in introductions and arranged marriages. Better to spend time with a prospective partner in social environments that include your and your potential's friends.
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6> If you really trust your instincts so much, then watch them when you ASK for a personal reference. If they go into a freaking panic, start a tirade about how useless references are, etc, then they probably are someone you should avoid.
Well, then. I guess I should be avoided, right? If I'm asked for references, I'm more likely to laugh. I would consider such a request in of itself as an inidcator of some one's character. One that seems to make things more complicated than they need to be and to create more conflict than there really is. Some people might like that though, and they're welcome to it. :)
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RE: References -Good Idea or Bad? - 
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