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RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 8:12:34 PM   
darlingjade


Posts: 54
Joined: 1/31/2005
Status: offline 		Speaking honestly, I've always thought that the value of someone having a different perspective, and thus opinion, from the majority was the intristic value of diversity. ie: The person that comes at things from a different angle offers others a chance to look at things in an entirely different way from themselves. I may not agree with that opinion. I may not get that perspective. But I DO think about what that person has to say.

quote:

I do not live by any lifestyle code. I have my own ideas of what safe and consensual means which may or may not jive with people in the lifestyle. I have my own ideas on a lot of things that may or may not jive with people in the lifestyle. I also know that there is a lot of disagreement between people in the lifestyle which is normal. But what I'm trying to get at is that I really don't care inherently that rules get figured out. My naturally dominant side doesn't care for anyone else's rules or protocol. Just like I am an atheist and an agnostic and I don’t really follow any God-like figure’s rule.


And, quite frankly, you're the voice of exactly what you represent. The person that doesn't consider themselves to be a lifestyler but enjoys some of the aspects of it. What you have to offer is a different slant on things than most might consider.

Personally, I don't fall into the cookiecutter mold of what many would consider a submissive to be and don't care to. When I offer an opinion I know going in that most of the time I'm not going to going to fall in with the "I would nevers and I never have' folks out there. The reason I DO toss my two cents into the pot is for those new submissives out there that can get drawn into the idea that unless THEY'RE part of the cookiecutter crowd they're somehow less than their peers or less of a submissive, something I completely disagree with. That, and I'll admit, it irritates the hell out of me to hear so many act like they came out of their mother's womb as fully formed submissives and NEVER made the errors that us more lowly folks have. Sometimes want to ask how those subs know what punishments are since they're so obedient and virtuous.

Mini rant aside, what I'm trying to say is that without people of differing perspectives on the boards anyone reading them would get pretty darned skewed idea of what a Top/Dom-Domme/Master-Mistress/bottom/sub/slave would be and they'd think that the cookiecutter IS the norm. Without people that ARE different and think outside the box we'd end up with no tolerence for people that don't exactly fall into the accepted categories in the accepted ways. Personally, I've dealt enough with that before deciding to explore my submission to it's fullest in the vanilla world and certainly don't want to be part of a community that doesn't embrace someone that may not be part of the mainstream(whatever the heck that is).

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 8:13:23 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

quote:

If the natural direction that collarme is going is to cater to lifestylers, then so be it.

I think what you may be noticing is turnover in the personalities on the boards rather than the site catering to any group. For example, I recall about a year ago there seemed to be a lot of folks here portraying a bdsm lifestyle of honor and chivalry where the dominant knights in shining armor would slay dragons and then rescue the fair submissive maidens and then they would ride off to a castle in the sky in a carriage drawn by winged pink unicorns.


Are you sure that wasn't one of your erotic dreams HP? :-p

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to happypervert)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 8:17:28 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

There is no appropriate term, I think, for people like you and me.


How about... individual.

Thanks for that great post. I can relate to much of it actually, and I often find myself thinking similar thoughts when I read this.

Like HP said, I don't think there is much of a distinction. What you said does shed some light on why people would want there to be one.

For the record, I have chatted with people who are into WIITWD hardcore and really make it a huge part of their life and to them, this is the focus of their lifestyle, just like say... hockey players make their life all about hockey ;-) I respect their choices and I think it's safe to say that these aren't the ones you were talking about.

Like Shayna said way earlier
quote:

If I had to pick a primary identity for myself it would probably be related to my professional life, not my personal life.


Diddo.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 8:25:08 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Geesh, why do I always have to follow the smart people with the well thought out posts.

When I was a kid, I learned that a whale was a mammal not a fish, because it had warm blood. Screw the part about a
whale swimming in the ocean and having fins and a flipper tail like a fish ... it was a mammal, because it had warm blood.

A tarantula has warm blood, but because it has eight legs, its an arachnid not a mammal.

Probably no actual scientists were involved in the definition of "the lifestyle" ... but who belongs where within it, probably makes about as much sense as warm blooded fish with eight legs.

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 8:29:04 PM   
sarbonn


Posts: 203
Joined: 3/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I’m actually wondering if there is a way for lifestylers and non-lifestylers to co-exist and/or if they should. I often get the feeling that many lifestylers view us non-lifestylers as players and wannabees.


I personally perceive this as more of a footprint of the Internet community than anything else. Yes, lifestylers and non-lifestylers can co-exist easily. There are always going to be people that feel a need to call others names or just to criticize others based on being different than they are. In the real world, at play parties and in the atmosphere of relationships, those distinctions really aren't that important to the majority and seem to receive attention from those who seek confrontation and should generally be avoided anyway.

_____________________________

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day...
...teach a man to fish, he steals your fishing hole and then charges you for the fish.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 8:31:33 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Please indulge me my two cents (sensitive eyes/ears may wish to turn away)


Thanks for your.. 7¢ ;-) It's interesting how meanings change and mutate to suit the needs of some. I'm not as well versed as you seem to be in the history of collars and ownership. Though I don't collar or own my partners, I do find it fascinating to learn about such traditions.

I'm seriously not that concerned about how I'm viewed. I'm simply trying to provoke a collarme wide reflection on how we see one another.

quote:

5. Bulletin boards of all kinds (online, offline, BDSM, vanilla, religious, etc.) don't "cater" to anyone. In point of fact, bulletin boards don't "do" anything. People do. The topics, replies, etc. reflect the thoughts, opinions, fantasies (in short, creations of all kinds) of the members of Collarme (presuming we all identify with and accept said membership, and were not forced to join at the business end of a gun).


I disagree. Bulletin boards such as these are organized, moderated and directed. They are not formally organised but there is a underlying purpose. Look at how every section has guidelines. The simple fact that the topics are what they are is an example. Lately there was a poll to see if a Gorean forum would be appreciated. That is catering to portion of the population. There is no stricly S&M forum is there? Perhaps because at this time, there are very few hard core S&Mers. There was once was... many of them aren't around anymore. Again, this is not a crit. I have a great deal of respect for the administrators of this site. They do however, like in any good business, cater to the majority. Absolutely understandable.

I don't feel forced to be here. I actually like coming here. Many of the discussions that I freely chose to engage in I do because it is one of the only places I know that I can discuss these topics freely. I feel no need to blend in. However, I do have to be able to identify with some people, some ideas, otherwise what is the point?

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 8:36:35 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Before I jump to any conclusions, I should probably ask a simple question (gosh, if only that were done more frequently).

Do you mean to say that there are very few hard core S&Mers real time, or just here at Collarme?

John

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 8:39:12 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

In the real world, at play parties and in the atmosphere of relationships, those distinctions really aren't that important to the majority and seem to receive attention from those who seek confrontation and should generally be avoided anyway.


Actually, I'm going to disagree with this statement based on my own perspective. I very, very rarely go to public events. I know a few people in the scene. One of my ex girls is a big scenester. When I go out, I'm usually wearing a simple, sexy black dress and heels, stocking depending on the weather. No fetish wear, no whips hanging from my belt, nothing. One night, I had one person ask another "who's the tourist?" referring to me being there. This was overheard by another person in the room who I had been previously acquainted with. I think by time I was warming up for a semi-public scene with the boy who was escorting me (strapping him down to an exam table), they weren't calling me a tourist anymore ;-)

I think some people really are trying to preserve some kind of purity of their lifestyle and some people are into oneupmanship.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to sarbonn)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 8:41:13 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Before I jump to any conclusions, I should probably ask a simple question (gosh, if only that were done more frequently).

Do you mean to say that there are very few hard core S&Mers real time, or just here at Collarme?

John


Here on collarme and participating to the message boards. There are some, but they are very much outweighed by the D/s and M/s focussed people.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 8:43:56 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Personally, I attend plenty of events across the US and in Canada and I do not have a fetish wear fetish. In point of fact, I wear what I always wear (which is a pair of Dockers and a golf shirt) which, on occasion, elicits a few looks and inquiries. To which I reply:

"My fetish is not for wearing leather, it's for bukkake. How do you feel about being the center of attention?"

No one has ever seen fit to press the issue.

John

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 8:45:25 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		Right on John!! I like your attitude ;-)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 8:47:38 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		I can understand why hard core S&Mers (generally speaking) might not be attracted to the Collarme bulletin boards, or indeed to bulletin boards of any kind. By in large, S&M enthusiasts much prefer to be "out there" doing it, rather than talking about it. Again, generally speaking, it tends to be those interested in power exchange relationships that drone on incessantly about the most inane minutae (myself included).

John

P.S. - I'll save someone the trouble and note that this post includes overly broad generalizations for which there are surely numerous exceptions.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 8:50:25 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Don't Rover and Lady Angelika make a cute couple???

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 8:51:48 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I’m actually wondering if there is a way for lifestylers and non-lifestylers to co-exist and/or if they should. I often get the feeling that many lifestylers view us non-lifestylers as players and wannabees.


Don't know if I qualify as a "lifestyler" by your definition or not. I've kept slaves for most of my adult life, but I wouldn't exactly call that a "lifestyle". Thomas Jefferson kept slaves too. Was he a "lifestyler"? I'm thinking probably not. To me, those who live for the Tuesday munch, and the weekend playparty, and spend a sizeable portion of their entertainment budget on "toys" and the aforementioned social events have more claim to a "lifestyle" than I do (not that I'm all that interested in claiming to be a "lifestyler" anyway).

Assuming for a moment that what you meant by "lifestyler" is someone like me, who thinks that a slave is always a slave, rather than just for the duration of a "scene", I'll take a crack at your question.

Do I think that someone who does think that a slave is only a slave during the scene, but not at other times, is a "player"? Yes, I do, but I don't see the term "player" as perjoritive. A sensation player is a sensation player. Nothing wrong with that. A power player is a power player. Nothing wrong with that either.

Do I think that folks who don't live like me are "wannabes"? Well, only if they are. There are folks like you who don't "wannabe" anything other than what they are. There are others who pretend to be what that they aren't. Why they do that I haven't a clue, but when they do, they're a "wannabe" by definition.

I talk about things here from my perspective, which, admittedly, probably isn't shared by too many. I often caveat what I say by stating that it's just an opinion from my perspective, even though that shouldn't be necessary. Do I think that different sorts of folks can coexist here? Sure. Do I think they'll never be heated exhanges here? I hope not. I think it's fine that people argue their points forcefully.

Maybe I'm not fully understanding what's motivating your post. Do you really think that the exchanges here have become more intolerant or less civil than they always were or are you disgruntled because you don't feel that your take on things seems to be the majority view here anymore?

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/14/2005 9:04:00 PM >

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 8:56:26 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Don't Rover and Lady Angelika make a cute couple???


Well yeah.. but I think he'd squirm too much if I tried to get him over my knee ;-)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 9:05:42 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I think you fit because 90% of what we discuss here is just good ole life issues and common sense. People like to make it seem particularly different or all changed, but you'd see the exact same sort of discussions on any vanilla relationship board.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 9:16:14 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

I think you fit because 90% of what we discuss here is just good ole life issues and common sense. People like to make it seem particularly different or all changed, but you'd see the exact same sort of discussions on any vanilla relationship board.


Hmm... I half agree with you. I don't think that it's all such common sense ;-) And to be honest, it's not a question of fitting or not, it's more a question of relating for me.

I agree with you that relationships that incorporate WIITWD are really no different then vanilla ones. Each relationship is unique and has an interesting dynamic. But that is exactly my point. I come on here and it seems that everyone wants to redifine what a relationship is because one is spanking the other. I feel so disconnected from that perspective.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 9:21:14 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darlingjade
what I'm trying to say is that without people of differing perspectives on the boards anyone reading them would get pretty darned skewed idea of what a Top/Dom-Domme/Master-Mistress/bottom/sub/slave would be and they'd think that the cookiecutter IS the norm. Without people that ARE different and think outside the box we'd end up with no tolerence for people that don't exactly fall into the accepted categories in the accepted ways.


I missed your post earlier but I'm glad I caught it on the refresh. I whole heartedly agree with you. But those who resist the variety in opinions are those who are the cookiecutter types.

- LA


_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to darlingjade)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 9:22:10 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I feel so disconnected from that perspective.

- LA

Rather than saying "I feel disconnected" try saying "It's not a perspective I share"

I don't share it either, that's part of why we get along. But it's not like you're MISSING something, which I think is your issue here. Change your perspective of feeling like there's something you should be getting but aren't.

I think you're getting a lot more than most do.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 9:24:17 PM   
CalliopePurple


Posts: 2539
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: SeaTac area
Status: offline 		I'm going through an introversion period as well. Breakup with my girl, second move in three months, re-establishing ties with most of my father's side of the family - all are things that make me wonder about myself.

And the more I think about it, the more I realize that I don't think I'm really into D/s or M/s as a long-term relationship pattern. It's fine for periods of time, but my interests are more S&M at this point in time.

I don't think that makes me any less of a "lifestyler" because I don't currently desire 24/7. I simply am what I am, labels be damned. LA, I always enjoy what you have to say on issues because it's most often a change of opinions I'm more likely to agree with.

Too bad my eventual trip to Canada won't take me near Montreal. All the people I want to see are in and around Toronto.

_____________________________

Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 40
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