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RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 9:24:24 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I feel so disconnected from that perspective.

- LA

Rather than saying "I feel disconnected" try saying "It's not a perspective I share"


Well it's not a perspective I share and yes, to a certain degree, I do feel disconnected lately. There is nothing wrong with me communicating that sentiment. It isn't a judgement value. It's my perception.

- LA


_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 9:26:26 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

Too bad my eventual trip to Canada won't take me near Montreal. All the people I want to see are in and around Toronto.


Montreal is but a 5 hour drive away ;)

And yes, labels be damned ;)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to CalliopePurple)
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RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/14/2005 11:59:22 PM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shayna

I have no desire to belong to any identity club. I dont see myself as a "lifestyler", though I have friends that probably define themselves in that way and I attend social events that are bdsm/fetish-focused. I see it as something I do and enjoy in my life/relationships, just like kayaking, following politics or working (which I spend more time doing than anything else). If I had to pick a primary identity for myself it would probably be related to my professional life, not my personal life.

LA, I enjoy your perspective quite a bit. I appreciate diverse opinions - whether I agree or not.





But here's something to think about -- isn't there a difference between someone who enjoys BDSM vs. someone who "Needs" BDSM (and no, I don't mean they will die without it, but they will consider it a non-negotiable when entering a relationship, for example). Dominating a man on a regular basis to get my femdom "rush" is not a hobby in that I can just give it up like you can a hobby, say tennis -- if it gets too expensive, if you don't have time, if you break your ankle. Even injuries will *not* get me to stop desiring BDSM.

So, if it's not a hobby in a sense that it might give you great pleasure -- but if push came to shove, you could stop it and while you might 'miss it', it won't have a longterm affect as if something huge is 'missing' -- then what is it?

I'm thinking back more to the early usenet days, and I sort of feel like I used to be quite comfortable giving myself the label "lifestyler" in that BDSM was something that was not removable from my *life* and would always play an important role. So the term "lifestyler" just included anyone who was serious enough about their kink vs. those that perhaps experimented with BDSM but could take it or leave it. And I don't think Mr. and Mrs. joe schmoe who engage in bondage, spankings, etc. sporadically (but could stop at any time and not miss it) were offended by not being called "lifestyler" -- if anything, these semi-vanilla (mostly vanilla) types didn't WANT the label lifestyler, because to them that meant "freak." Those people were like the people who "really enjoy Star Trek" but would never buy tons of collectibles, travel to conventions, or learn to speak vulcan --and, in fact, prefered to be disassociated with those people entirely. You'd more likely here them say, defensively, "I might tie up my girlfriend now and then and we like some kinky stuff, but I'm not into that lifestyle."

Now, when I hear "lifestyler" I get a sense that this includes only those people that place BDSM dynamic as the core to their relationship, are generally more active in the 'scene' in public (not always, but more often), and frankly spend more of their time doing something bdsm related than vanilla related. I also tend to think they have more lifestyle friends than vanilla friends (in general, I might be wrong) and probably reduce the number of vanilla things in their life to incorporate more bdsm. Whether it be participating online, making fetish items as a hobby, going to events and seminars, hosting parties, going on trips to bdsm events --- compared to more vanilla leisure activities that a couple might engage in -- going on a vanilla vacation to Napa, going to vanilla parties or work functions, sharing a hobby like biking or camping.

What other criteria are there, anyway? You can't say it has anything to do with how much money someone spends on toys, for example, because I've probably spent more on toys than many people who are more active in the "lifestyle." But is that just because I'm a "gear whore" and I buy fetish items compulsively like some women buy shoes? Is the criteria that they have some large vested interest or contribution to the 'bdsm community' whether it be online or in person? I've had a femdom web site for 10 years (which was free for 9 and a half years) and written hundreds of stories and articles -- but, I can count on one hand (well, maybe one and a half) the number of fetish events I have attended (not counting alternative dance clubs which might be fetishy but never advertised as an S&M club).

The definitions are one of the harder parts to start with, and that's before you even start adding the posturing.

Hell, I'm more confused now than when I started!

Akasha

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(in reply to Shayna)
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RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/15/2005 12:52:00 AM   
KittenWithaTwist


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quote:

I do not live by any lifestyle code. I have my own ideas of what safe and consensual means which may or may not jive with people in the lifestyle. I have my own ideas on a lot of things that may or may not jive with people in the lifestyle. I also know that there is a lot of disagreement between people in the lifestyle which is normal. But what I'm trying to get at is that I really don't care inherently that rules get figured out. My naturally dominant side doesn't care for anyone else's rules or protocol. Just like I am an atheist and an agnostic and I don’t really follow any God-like figure’s rule.


I've been doing...what it is that I do...for nearly five years. I seem to do it a different way per relationship, and not according to any sort of particular code of conduct. I don't know what the code of conduct is, outside of SSC-which I don't really agree with, and RACK which I wouldn't call a "lifestyle" code at all. We all have ideas that people don't agree with! Have you ever walked into a BDSM or D/s based chat discussion? Good grief! Everyone who isn't a sheep (baaaaa!) has a different opinion on what is or is not acceptable, because we are all so different.
Now onto the question I had: How can you be atheist *and* agnostic? One believes in no deity, the other is a fence sitter, one who does not necessarily believe nor disbelieve in some form of outside assistance in the creation of "life, the universe, and everything."

Ah if only the answer to BDSM's great question could be "42".

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/15/2005 1:02:21 AM   
KittenWithaTwist


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quote:

I personally perceive this as more of a footprint of the Internet community than anything else. Yes, lifestylers and non-lifestylers can co-exist easily.


I agree. The only place I've ever noticed the terminology of "lifestyler" vs "non lifestyler" is online. In my local community group, we're all just...there. We're all so incredibly different but who cares? We all get along swimmingly. We don't sit around in groups separated because we don't practice whatever it is we do in the same exact way. The only people I've noticed who really freak out about being different or having different ideas are people who have never interacted off the computer with likeminded (even if its a very limited amount of like mindedness) peoples.

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RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/15/2005 1:26:03 AM   
wednesday


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Ooooooooo Lady Angelika look what you started. This has to be the fastest moving thread I've seen since I started reading this site.

Just a side thought...

I think my objection is to the idea of a "lifestyle." Much like the idea of homosexuality being a "lifestyle" has always ruffled my feathers. Or how people judge someone's degree of involvement based on whether or not they shop at Hot Topic (that can be applied to all SORTS of "lifestyles").

I personally have always been at loggerheads with anyone who identifies as a thing/subcurrent first and a person after. Yes, masochism is part of who I am, sadism is part of who I am. But it doesn't define me entirely.

With the internet offering such a great place to hide, it is easy for people to create false personas that don't hold up under scrutiny. Likewise, with the internet making a subject so widely accessible and yet from a somewhat narrow view, it makes the face to face encounters tainted and somewhat awkward. People come to expect a certain mode of dress and/or behavior in person, and certain protocols online. Such as, oh, addressing ALL dominants with capital letters and referring to oneself in the 3rd person or whatever other thing they get hung up on

People want their ducks to walk and quack like ducks.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/15/2005 2:49:58 AM   
GentleLady


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quote:

I’m actually wondering if there is a way for lifestylers and non-lifestylers to co-exist and/or if they should. I often get the feeling that many lifestylers view us non-lifestylers as players and wannabees. Now this isn’t going to affect in any way, shape or form how I view myself or my relationship dynamics, but it does affect how I interact on here. The tension isn’t super obvious but I feel it underlying and that is why I bring it up, not to point fingers at anyone but rather so that we can openly and honestly discuss it.

I would identify Myself as a lifestyler (as I define the term) and a Dominant and I hope that I have never given anyone the impression that they were players or wannabes simply because they were not in the lifestyle. To Me a player is someone who misrepresents themselves and their goals. A player will con and lie or a player will say they want 24/7 when they are really after kinky sex. To Me the lifestyle encompasses everyone from the casual player who is after kinky sex to the dedicated 24/7 couples who live this in all parts of their lives. And no there is not a contradiction in what I said. The crucial difference is the honesty involved.

I have read a number of your posts LadyAngelika and you have made lots of worthwhile contributions to the discussions. Your involvement helps Me see where My Dominance ends and the BDSM aspects start. I have a mirror to use to see what My life might be like as a Dominant without the kinky or BDSM aspects. By thinking about some of the points you have made as a non-kinky Dominant I have been able to finally identify exactly what My kink is. And surprisingly enough it is one I have been indulging in since I was 13. That was the earliest age in which I was accused of being this by another person. But that kink has nothing to do with My being Dominant in character.

LadyAngelika, if you are not welcome here then neither am I. I probably fall at the opposite end of the continum then you do but if one end is not welcome then neither is the other. Being at one end also does not make Me better then anyone else...I am simply using the concept of a continum to illustrate My point. (ie: I am this and you are not so you are different and not Me...if you were not different then you would be Me). I started coming here because I saw it as a place where people could openly discuss different ideas and share perspectives. Many days now I find I have little to say because of the type of thread (although sometimes the reason is because My views have been said better by someone else).



Gentle Lady


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RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/15/2005 3:28:38 AM   
Shayna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

But here's something to think about -- isn't there a difference between someone who enjoys BDSM vs. someone who "Needs" BDSM (and no, I don't mean they will die without it, but they will consider it a non-negotiable when entering a relationship, for example). Dominating a man on a regular basis to get my femdom "rush" is not a hobby in that I can just give it up like you can a hobby, say tennis -- if it gets too expensive, if you don't have time, if you break your ankle. Even injuries will *not* get me to stop desiring BDSM.

So, if it's not a hobby in a sense that it might give you great pleasure -- but if push came to shove, you could stop it and while you might 'miss it', it won't have a longterm affect as if something huge is 'missing' -- then what is it?


There are a number of things that are core to my happiness and sense of well-being, my sexuality being primary. It's something that has been fluid for me over time; my proclivities for men, women, power relationships, the laundry list of what new activity turns me on this week. I can't give up bdsm, just like I can't give up my sexuality or the need to breathe and eat. Sexual compatibility is very important for me in choosing a partner. I wouldn't fall in love with someone that didn't embrace their own sexuality, and didn't see a vast range of possible ways for us as a couple to express that part of ourselves. And if that "one" guy doesn't come along in the future, I will continue to thoroughly enjoy a variety of delightful playmates, who are chosen partially based on compatible sexual interests (obviously). So while I never say never, I honestly can't imagine my life without the full expression of erotic options, including bdsm. Now I can imagine being with a great guy that isn't into my same laundry list of activities, but those are details and I don't sweat the details. I'm willing to negotiate.



< Message edited by Shayna -- 8/15/2005 3:34:37 AM >

(in reply to AAkasha)
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RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/15/2005 5:05:23 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

Now, when I hear "lifestyler" I get a sense that this includes only those people that place BDSM dynamic as the core to their relationship, are generally more active in the 'scene' in public (not always, but more often), and frankly spend more of their time doing something bdsm related than vanilla related. I also tend to think they have more lifestyle friends than vanilla friends (in general, I might be wrong) and probably reduce the number of vanilla things in their life to incorporate more bdsm. Whether it be participating online, making fetish items as a hobby, going to events and seminars, hosting parties, going on trips to bdsm events --- compared to more vanilla leisure activities that a couple might engage in -- going on a vanilla vacation to Napa, going to vanilla parties or work functions, sharing a hobby like biking or camping.


Yes, this is how I see a lifestyler. That isn't me. I'd rather go cycling or sailing with my partners then hang out in a play dungeon. I would rather enjoy a nice tête-à-tête dinner with a boy then have him eat in a dog dish next to me on the floor. Sure I've been to fetish parties, sure I've been to seminars, out of curiosity. Now and then it can be interesting. But I can only take it in small doses.

This is What it is that I do, not What it is that I am.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/15/2005 5:06:04 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist
Now onto the question I had: How can you be atheist *and* agnostic? One believes in no deity, the other is a fence sitter, one who does not necessarily believe nor disbelieve in some form of outside assistance in the creation of "life, the universe, and everything."


I will answer this as a side bar because it is a legitimate question but if anyone wants to pursue this discussion, I suggest you copy and paste this entry into a new thread in off-topic discussions. I do not want this thread to degenerate into a discussion about religion.

Atheism is the lack of belief in the existence of any gods. It can include outright denial of the existence of gods, lack of interest in the existence of gods, and disbelief due to a lack of information.

Agnosticism is the skeptical position of not professing to know for sure if any gods definitely do or definitely do not exist. Contrary to common assumptions, agnosticism is compatible with both atheism and theism. An agnostic can also be an atheist or a theist.

(Source : http://atheism.about.com/)

In my position, I cannot believe in the existence of God because from my perspective, it just doesn't add up. I find that the deity models presented to me are overly simplistic and I can see right through the societal manipulation tactics embedded within them. To me, the religion models do not prove an existence of God, they demonstrate a human need for direction and authority. That is the atheist in me. Now just because I am not willing to follow a series of books telling me what my maker would have wanted me to, that doesn’t mean that I think all of this existence is random. I actually have strong opinions about life, the universe and everything else (yes from one Adams fan to another) but this is not the forum to discuss these issues. But that would best explain my agnostic side.

In simpler terms, I don’t take the good word as truth but that hasn’t made me closed to any other possibilities. I’m just coming at it from a very different angle.

Now relating all that back to WIITWD, just because I don’t follow a code such as SSC or RACK doesn’t mean that I’m going to swim against the current and do the exact opposite. I might even read it out of interest and see that it has validity for people who need direction on how and where to take things. It will not become my credo as I have seen it become for many. And this is not a judgement call. This is simply what works for me.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/15/2005 5:13:07 AM   
LadyAngelika


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Thank you for the kind words GL. Though I have to say, I'm confused when you say:
quote:

I have a mirror to use to see what My life might be like as a Dominant without the kinky or BDSM aspects. By thinking about some of the points you have made as a non-kinky Dominant I have been able to finally identify exactly what My kink is.


I'm not sure I would identify as a non-kinky Dominant. What I have said is that my dominance did not come from my desire to be kinky. I am naturally dominant. Not all naturally dominant people indulge in kink. I happen to. Not all naturally dominant people who engage in kink take the role of the Top. More often then not, I do. But I do not define my dominance based on the fact that I like to be a Top in a kinky dynamic.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/15/2005 6:04:36 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

So what am I and what am I doing here, right? I’ve been asking myself that question lately to be honest.


Oh Lady A....
I'm sorry that you have been feeling this way because I know... that you know ...that I know that feeling well. Whew....what a sentence that was! In private conversations with you I have shared very much that same sentiment albeit from the opposite side of the fence. There are many times that I just don't feel like I fit here either, even though I guess that I am most certainly a lifestyler. My views are quite frequently "Old School" and there are days on this board where the only feeling I walk away with is that of odd man out. A frustrated old dinosaur.

Now you and I come from very different perspectives...actually in many ways there are probably no two people on this board who are more opposite (except for maybe myself and Emerald). You and I have had our fair share of horn locking sessions. There are many issues that you and I will just never understand each other's perspective, at least not on a personal level.

So why do I think that you should be here? Well, mostly BECAUSE of our differences. This would be a pretty boring place to be if everyone here came from the same perspective and always agreed, would it not? I can tell you this much....I have learned more from you about myself than I have as a result of any other poster here. I have also gained more respect for you than I have for many others here because you are an insightful woman who understands that while we may not see eye to eye on many things, that does not detract from our worth as people or our value to this medium. It also does not detract from our respect for each other. While our perspectives may not always be the popular or most common, they are still perspectives that have merit.

I am sure that there are people who find my perspective to be so alien that when they see my posts they just skip right over. While I am a long time "lifestyler" I have not been a long time "interneter" and quite honestly this medium took a bit to get used to...actually I am still working on that. When I first came to these boards I must admit that I was one of those who saw certain people as being so different that I would just skim over their words. YOU taught me that in doing so I was missing out on the opportunity at some serious personal growth. The thoughts of an opposing opinion make you think at a much deeper level than those of an opinion that is in agreement to your own. Words typed that say "Oh I can totally relate or agree" are very nice to hear, but words that offer an opposing view or challenge provide opportunities for you to take a deeper look at yourself.

I'm glad you're here.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/15/2005 6:04:53 AM   
Isolde


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I've felt that way here on occasion, and yes it's been more often in the past weeks, but I've chalked it up to being due more to my own unreliable perception than any real shift in how I'm perceived and responded to here. I tend not to post anything of value too often and because of my real life situation, I just don't have a lot in common or a lot of experience to share with those who fold this into their lives. Where I do feel confident, I'll put my opinions forward but...yes, frequently I do wonder if the sense that I'm outside some special circle is accurate or a false impression.

I don't expect to find an answer until I get off my butt and become more involved in discussions here.

That said, LadyAngelika, I've found your contributions to the topics here valuable and insightful. You fall into a group that I tend to view more as people rather than just names on a screen- you have an individual voice that stands out. Even if you do feel as if you're standing on the outside, I think the general feeling is that you're one of...ah...I don't want to say insiders but I'm drawing a blank as to the correct word. Long-timer, intelligent and rational people, interesting folks...it'll come to me, I just need more coffee.

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RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/15/2005 6:17:07 AM   
Padriag


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Geesh, why do I always have to follow the smart people with the well thought out posts.

When I was a kid, I learned that a whale was a mammal not a fish, because it had warm blood. Screw the part about a
whale swimming in the ocean and having fins and a flipper tail like a fish ... it was a mammal, because it had warm blood.

A tarantula has warm blood, but because it has eight legs, its an arachnid not a mammal.

Probably no actual scientists were involved in the definition of "the lifestyle" ... but who belongs where within it, probably makes about as much sense as warm blooded fish with eight legs.


:: wanders in after everybody else cause I was sleeping ::
Caitlyn makes a good point. This thing we do, this "community" we have (which is often barely a community at all), is a mighty strange beast. We use our own terminology that is a bewildering maze of double and triple and personal meanings that we frequently argue over because we can't agree on what a slave is, or the difference between a dominant and a Top (or why most of us reflexively cap Top, but not dominant). We have long debates about SSC vs RACK when all either really boils down to is keep it consensual and try not to kill each other. Its downright bizarre when you really stop, take a step back and look at it. Statistically BDSMers (ha, how many will argue over calling us that I wonder) outnumber gays and lesbians in the US 2 to 1, yet the gays and lesbians are far better organized and far better at lobbying for their rights than we ever have been so far. We can't agree on the difference between a submissive and a slave, or if a slave can be so without a Master... we are so rife with personal opinion and individuality that sometimes I think the only things holding this community together are good wishes and duck tape.

To continue Caitlyn's biology metaphor... this "thing" we are part of is an amoeba. Its amorphous and constantly changing its shape, size and direction. I can't help but imagine there are old gay Leathermen spinning in their graves over what we've made of their legacy. Then again there are probably some that would stand up and applaud it too. What this "style of life" is today is not what it was 20 years ago... and in another 20 years it won't be what it is today. The next generation of "lifestylers" my look back at us all as a bunch of neophytes who hardly knew what we were doing. We'll be their aging grandparents reminicing about the "good ole days" when "we had to walk 8 miles barefoot in the snow just to go to a munch." This "style of life" will continue to change and grow and become something new. Despite the attempts of many of us to give it definition, to create structure and order out of the chaos, and in so doing impose our Will on others even as they try to impose theirs on us, despite all that and perhaps because of it, it keeps changing. Sometimes we find common ground, one of us speaks up with a thought or idea and others voice agreement, and for that moment we shape the seething mass into a fixed form... and then its gone again like trying to sculpt water. I watch as what we consider SSC or RACK changes... things are done by some now as "edge" play are things 10 years ago most I knew would have said was too unsafe to try. Things I used to consider edge play are becoming passe. I wonder what things will be like in another 20 or 50 years when technology makes things possible we haven't even imagined today. How relevant will SSC or RACK even be when nanotechnology makes it possible to literally flay the flesh from someone's bones, and then watch it regenerate without leaving so much as a scar. How relevant will the terms Top, Bottom, dominant or submissive even be when neurocybernetics makes it possible to feel the pain and emotions of the person you are flogging... who's the top then, who's the bottom or will everyone be switches. What will we do when a company like Real Doll finally does produce a sex doll that is a fully animated volitional robot that looks and feels like a real woman, a real man, or a shemale, or a half human half animal hybrid or who knows what else. Who knows, I'll leave that to future generations to worry about, not my problem. What I do know is there are things coming in the future that will make obsolette many of the dearly held and hotly argued ideologies and codes we have today.

All any of us can do is give voice to our opinions, our ideas, our beliefs and convictions. We can share our experiences with each other and in the process teach one while learning from another. We can talk about how things are right now, what works today, but that's about as far as it goes. Holding on to some lofty standard from 50 years ago is just living in the past, its dead, let it rest in peace. Some feel the need to be part of something larger, clubs, Houses, organizations... and that's fine I have no problem with that so long as they remember there is no one true way and just because their way isn't my way doesn't make either of us any less for it. I still remember the first time I was called a "wilder" by a member of one such group, I was offended by it at the time. I've never been one to join these organization, attend events or play parties, it just wasn't for me. I think about it now and I'm more inclined to grin at the thought of being a "wilder"... wild and free, out here on my own with a kinky pioneer spirit blazing my own trail, finding my own way. A bit melodramatic perhaps but I like the imagery, a kinky Davy Crockett, king of the perverse frontier! That's not to say I don't have ethics or boundaries, I do. I think we should all strive to be ethical and have integrity. Those things are always a good idea. But even that really comes down to something simpler. If I meet someone and they're keeping it a matter of informed consent, if they're doing their best to avoid inflicting any unintentional harm, if its about two or more people meeting each others needs in a kind of kinky symbiosis... well... their kink may not be my kink but I guess it really is okay.

So if I, or you, or any of us is a "wilder", and in a way aren't we all, then what of it? So what if we're all out here, as Frost put it, traveling into our own. Add your voice to the discussions, the debates, the arguments, and the laughter. Let the ephemeral ink stain these digital pages and stand for as long as it lasts as a testament to what you knew, what you believed and thought was true. We're all leaving foot prints in the sand, and sometimes that really does help another to find their way. But we're all also each journeying into our own, and though we may help others in the process, each of us must find our own way.

In your journey into your own, I wish you well. But don't let your voice fall silent, don't doubt you have something to say. We all have something to share.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to caitlyn)
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RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/15/2005 2:22:39 PM   
darkinshadows


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I think, that BDSM as a 'Lifestyle' will always exist, because people have an inherent need to belong, when they are unsure of themself. And people are always unsure of themself when they first start experimenting. So, as long as their are people new to what they are, as long as there is a need to express what they are - there will be a lifestyle. It is a failsafe - a security. But then - people move on - and although others are important - there comes a time of self realisation for people who find what they are and are suddenly(or slowly) themself. Then that ephiphny - that realisation - brings the person to the point of seeing that the lifestyle isnt what they are or need to be a part of, but that life is able to be styled around their own specific desires... and the community isn't as important as what they have seen what they can be.

M'Lady A - you know my thoughts and how much I respect you - and I truely believe that it is people like yourself and Akasha... you help show people that they are unique and individual and that they don't need anything or anyone - just their own mind - to achieve.

Peace and Love


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.dark.




...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/15/2005 3:46:59 PM   
subcheryl


Posts: 280
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyakitten

Lady Angelika,

I agree with you that there have been some changes in the general climate, topics, and contributors to these boards recently, and like you, I find less I can contribute to or that interests me. My perception is that there's more of a "my way or the highway" theme overriding a majority of the threads, leaving little room for divergent tastes or views - including the distinction you mention.

Someone on one of the other threads - Erin I think? - mentioned that message boards go through cycles. I'm hoping that if we hang out here long enough, the dynamic will change again. And hopefully your message will help accelerate that, since many people here will agree that the boards are richer with you on them.

Liana




I agree with you, and I too have noticed the "Winds of Change" and hope they are for the good,

(in reply to kyakitten)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/15/2005 3:57:07 PM   
dominmd


Posts: 474
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline
I guess I will have to be with LadyAngelika here. My views are really, to each his/her own. I probably will not ever have a 24/7 lifestyle in bdsm. I do like it as part of a relationship as a whole as a way of really getting to know someone on an even more intimate level. As a switch, it would be hard for me as a person to live in a 24/7 lifestyle. I identify more with my Dom side, and yet I can see myself being a sub to a woman whom I fall completely in love with.

What I notice is that everyone HAS to be labeled by either themselves, others or both. While still other people have no need for labels. LadyAngelika, please do not begin to be label driven. You have had great posts full of information that people like me appreciate. You do not need a label, you are just who you are. If we have to be labeled non-lifestyle, then you and I can share the boat. I'll row


(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/15/2005 5:19:08 PM   
RosaB


Posts: 852
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I'd rather go cycling or sailing with my partners then hang out in a play dungeon. I would rather enjoy a nice tête-à-tête dinner with a boy then have him eat in a dog dish next to me on the floor. Sure I've been to fetish parties, sure I've been to seminars, out of curiosity. Now and then it can be interesting. But I can only take it in small doses.

This is What it is that I do, not What it is that I am.

- LA



That describes my feelings as well. I've attended a munch here and there and any time I've tried to have a discussion about attending a play or some other non bdsm activity, the person/s has usually looked at me like I have horns on my head. I get great pleasure out of what we do, but there's a whole world of fun activities to partake in.

The CM boards is as much activity as I devote to scene activities in a week because in addition to it being a great place for learning, exchanging thoughts and ideas, it is a great stress reliever, especially since giving up smoking, but balance is important for me, I would go mad if all my days primarily revolved around bdsm, it's an important but small part of my life.

Rosa

(in reply to dominmd)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/15/2005 5:36:23 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
This reply isn't to anyone in particular (someone just had to be the last post in the thread), but I wonder how many people might have difficulty distinguishing a 24/7 relationship dynamic (as in a power exchange relationship) from a 24/7 scene (as in Bondage/Discipline and Sadism/Masochism).

A 24/7 power exchange relationship dynamic is comprised of two (or more) people just being themselves. It's not only possible to live a 24/7 power exchange relationship, for those who are Dominants and submissives (or slaves if you prefer) it is the natural dynamic they seek out and settle into, and it has absolutely nothing to do with whips and chains (or any other prop), nor anything whatsoever to do with a location or venue (such as a dungeon).

It could be argued that Ward and June Cleaver (or any other "traditional" family of the mid 20th century) are examples of power exchange relationships (though they lack a few critical elements such as consent given the limited choices afforded women of the age resulting in gender based Dominance).

On the other hand, it's a great fantasy, but entirely impossible to live a 24/7 scene. Whips, chains, dungeons and the like have a time and place when they're often enjoyable, but not everywhere and all the time. One of the defining elements of a scene is that it is finite...with a discernable beginning and end.

Just a few thoughts to chew on.

John

(in reply to RosaB)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The non-lifestyler perspective - 8/15/2005 5:44:10 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

This reply isn't to anyone in particular (someone just had to be the last post in the thread), but I wonder how many people might have difficulty distinguishing a 24/7 relationship dynamic (as in a power exchange relationship) from a 24/7 scene (as in Bondage/Discipline and Sadism/Masochism).

A 24/7 power exchange relationship dynamic is comprised of two (or more) people just being themselves. It's not only possible to live a 24/7 power exchange relationship, for those who are Dominants and submissives (or slaves if you prefer) it is the natural dynamic they seek out and settle into, and it has absolutely nothing to do with whips and chains (or any other prop), nor anything whatsoever to do with a location or venue (such as a dungeon).

It could be argued that Ward and June Cleaver (or any other "traditional" family of the mid 20th century) are examples of power exchange relationships (though they lack a few critical elements such as consent given the limited choices afforded women of the age resulting in gender based Dominance).

On the other hand, it's a great fantasy, but entirely impossible to live a 24/7 scene. Whips, chains, dungeons and the like have a time and place when they're often enjoyable, but not everywhere and all the time. One of the defining elements of a scene is that it is finite...with a discernable beginning and end.

Just a few thoughts to chew on.

John



So, would it be fair to say that Jane Doe, a very controlling woman who can be demanding and knows how things should be done, is constantly hen-pecking John Doe -- but not only does he tolerate it, he kinda enjoys it -- are they living a 24/7 power exchange? All of John Doe's friends say he is 'pussywhipped' -- he admits it, but hey, he likes it. He doesn't like it in a sexual way (he doesn't get turned on when she tells him no, he can't go meet his buddies and shoot pool), and neither does she, but it's clear who wears the pants in the family. You can even see it in their physical body language at parties and what not. Jane and John Doe do not own any fetish material and most of their sex is missionary position, and only if Jane Doe is in the mood. So she also controls him in the bedroom -- so to speak.

I'm not sure how they could be power exchange 24/7ers as defined by the BDSM community when they are not only unaware of it, but both would find it offensive. It's just a controlling woman and a passive man - nothing more, nothing less. Why throw them into our mix?

Akasha

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Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 60
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