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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 7:40:53 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
quote:


As Americans, we're not sure we share values. We're sometimes even afraid to use the word values. We talk about teaching ethics in schools -- people say, "What ethics? Whose ethics? Maybe we can't." And they confuse that with teaching of religion. And we are afraid to reaffirm the basics upon which a lawful and a decent society are based. We're almost embarrassed by it.


Given that Ethics is a major branch of philosophy, encompasses right conduct and good living. I'm not sure he understands what "Teaching Ethics", is. Apparently, he understands that "Ethics" is like facility in algebra -- a learned skill, when it isn't, and not a PROCESS, which it is. You *can* teach the process, but it's pretty clear that he's not on that page.



You have to understand the GOP lingo. "Values", as in "Family(tm)", "Ethics", "Morality"... they're fairly interchangable terms, and they all boil down to "What I (the speaker) Believe". It's very easy to mock moral relativism when you truly believe that You Have The Answer.

While the original quote was technically out of context, as a libertarian, the expanded article does not give me any reason to disagree with Fargle's assessment.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 7:48:57 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Hi Dave,

I disagree.  As a Libertarian, I have a strong belief in the role that authority and rule of law play in keeping a cohesive society.  But I also believe that fewer laws, with better enforcement, is the key.  The 'plea bargain' system that we have instituted to enable society to make deals with 'middle offenders' to get to 'worse offenders' suggests that violent crime, and social order, are simply wars we can't win.  We invest trillions into enforcement of laws at home and ideology abroad that restrict personal choices and free market, leaving us with scant resources to keep murderers and rapists in jail.

Strong enforcement of laws, when held to a transparent system, are crucial to social order.  If driving ten miles over the speed limit meant, literally, a year in jail minimum, we could have speed limits at 80 instead of 65.

Stephan


_____________________________

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Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to petdave)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 7:53:10 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

When I post quotes or news articles I habitually post credible links to go with them, Sinergy.



Weird.  I just did a search for links by user "Sanity" and the first dozen or so I looked at (I only have so much energy these days) had no credible links at all to support your position as you attempted to savage another poster's ideas or position.

I am not actually talking about when you start a thread or state an opinion, I am referring to when you attempt to trash other people's links and refuse to provide any evidence to support your position at all.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 7:55:03 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Pet dave it is very easy to mock "moral relativism", no matter what you believe.

So where is the defense of Anarchism?

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 8:00:51 PM   
liminalRapture


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline 		Giuliani is the single candidate that scares me more than any other.  I'm a leftie, but I'd rather have Mike Huckabee.

Giuliani doesn't believe in the balance of powers.  A few examples:  New York magazine has an ad (paid at full price) on city buses that said something like "Just about the only good think in NY that Giuliani hasn't tried to take credit for." Giuliani ordered the ads removed (why?  he didn't like them) and a judge said they had a First Amendment right.  Giuliani fought it all the way to the state supreme court. 

Patrick Dorismond (I think that was his name), was a kid that got pissed when an under-cover cop tried to by drugs from him.  The cop (and this was after Louima and Diallo) got pissed that the kid was pissed.  Instead of saying "My bad--dude, sorry--chill--it's just some weed)--he called in backup support and they shot the kid for being pissed that they thought he was a drug dealer.  Never showed their badges.  Never tried to deescalate it.  In Giuliani's NYC you could be killed for not showing appropriate deference to undercover cops!

He cracked down on Jaywalking under the theory that we were all probably wanted for bigger crimes.  Yeah.  Robbing a bank usually leads to jaywalking... 

He is a fascist.  He will take the "Unitary Executive" theory and the Bush/Cheney centralization of power and institutionalize it and instead of having "checks and balances" we will live in a monarchy where we get to elect a king every four years, but there are no checks on the king/president in between.

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"Ring the bells that can still ring. Forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen.

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 8:02:01 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		You got a link to prove that, Sinergy?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

When I post quotes or news articles I habitually post credible links to go with them, Sinergy.



Weird.  I just did a search for links by user "Sanity" and the first dozen or so I looked at (I only have so much energy these days) had no credible links at all to support your position as you attempted to savage another poster's ideas or position.

I am not actually talking about when you start a thread or state an opinion, I am referring to when you attempt to trash other people's links and refuse to provide any evidence to support your position at all.

Sinergy



_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 8:03:14 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
You wont read it.

Sinergy

p.s.  Even if you read it, I doubt you would understand it.



_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 8:06:04 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

You got a link to prove that, Sinergy?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

When I post quotes or news articles I habitually post credible links to go with them, Sinergy.



Weird.  I just did a search for links by user "Sanity" and the first dozen or so I looked at (I only have so much energy these days) had no credible links at all to support your position as you attempted to savage another poster's ideas or position.

I am not actually talking about when you start a thread or state an opinion, I am referring to when you attempt to trash other people's links and refuse to provide any evidence to support your position at all.

Sinergy




Here is one.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1411750/mpage_6/key_bush/tm.htm#1415862

Fish.  Barrel.  Bang.

Prove WMDs were never found.  Prove WMDs were never there.  Prove any of your statements in your posts with links.

Make a believer (that you know how to use a search engine) out of the rest of us.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 8:10:53 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		"When I post quotes or news articles I habitually post credible links to go with them, Sinergy. "

Not a single quote or reference to a news article in your link there Sinergy, so you get a zero.  Why do you always use that fish barrel bang line when you shoot yourself in the foot?   Are you still mad that he called you on your lie of working for the Whopper?

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 8:11:54 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Still no defense of Anarchy.....I wonder why that is?

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 8:13:58 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Friend, I said when I'm quoting someone, or I'm posting a news article.

Like the OP in this thread.

I would say "nice try" but it was pathetic, really.

But, if you really want me to I can teach you some recent history... complete with credible links. You'll never be as good as I am on the subject, but anything is better than what you're working with right now.

Not tonight though, I work early and so I'm out of here.

Good night ya'all. And thanks Lucky, you know the score.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 12/5/2007 8:22:15 PM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 8:16:34 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		I didnt actually ask him to properly attribute quotes.

I asked him to provide a link to support his position on any subject whatsoever, primarily where he is savaging the opinion of another poster who actually did provide a link or a quote.

What he provides for us is the Expert Opinion Of Sanity which should be assumed true and reasoned and researched.  More importantly, as the Expert Opinion of Sanity it can stand alone, untrammelled by peer review, and free from being questioned as to authenticity or validity.

As everybody knows, an Ex is a has-been and a spurt is a drip under pressure.

Thanks for the advice, luckydog1.

Sinergy.


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 8:20:24 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		You want me to give links for everything I say now because I won't let your friends get away with misquoting Rudy...

How funny

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I didnt actually ask him to properly attribute quotes.

I asked him to provide a link to support his position on any subject whatsoever, primarily where he is savaging the opinion of another poster who actually did provide a link or a quote.

What he provides for us is the Expert Opinion Of Sanity which should be assumed true and reasoned and researched.  More importantly, as the Expert Opinion of Sanity it can stand alone, untrammelled by peer review, and free from being questioned as to authenticity or validity.

As everybody knows, an Ex is a has-been and a spurt is a drip under pressure.

Thanks for the advice, luckydog1.

Sinergy.



_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 8:22:35 PM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline 		"For those who wish to continue shrieking about fascism, let me offer you this simple truth of the Giuliani administration in NYC.  The squegeemen and muggers didn't survive, but Farglebargle did."

More to consider:
better does not automatically constitute “good”
Things change for a reason
Is'nt building a foundation on “values” like building a house on a fault line, if not simply because they are always changing, but perhaps more importantly; don’t values derive from an individuals experiences and their prospective of those experiences?
Is it not the totality of our experiences and our prospective of those experiences, that which makes us individuals? Isn’t implying everyone does or should have the same values akin to saying “Everyone should have the same experiences or conform to the same type of thinking”. Isn’t it also an invalidation of an individual’s emotions?
 
I am not anti-anyone; I am anti-conformity and anti-over privileged. In order for someone to be over privileged; someone else has to be underprivileged.
 
k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 8:25:26 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

The squegeemen and muggers didn't survive, but Farglebargle did.


I never lived in The City, and at that time, the REST OF THE STATE was getting deluged with the people Guiliani kicked out of NYC.

He "Cleaned Up" NYC by trashing Newburgh.

And that's why he could NEVER get the Governor job, and Spitzer did.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 8:32:51 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
When I post quotes or news articles I habitually post credible links to go with them, Sinergy.


How much does that offset the defamatory practice of fabricating statements, and then attributing them to others?

I'd suggest, given your lack of credibility, it's not going to damage your reputation, but it certainly doesn't repair it.




< Message edited by farglebargle -- 12/5/2007 8:33:15 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 8:39:11 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Still no defense of Anarchy.....I wonder why that is?


Anarchy only works until some idiot decides he wants to be in charge. At that point it devolves. ( Or evolves) into something else.

Constitutional Republics work good for short periods of time. Sure would be good to have one now.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 8:43:53 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

You want me to give links for everything I say now because I won't let your friends get away with misquoting Rudy...


LOL -- The LAST thing you seemed concerned about was making sure Rudy wasn't misquoted!

Let me remind you of your words, Sir. You said, AND I QUOTE:

"Do you have any proof that Rudy Giulliani actually said that, or are you just having some fun and being creative. "

You suggested the OP FABRICATED THE QUOTE.

Given your own fabrication and fraudulent attribution of quotes,( see http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1447654 ) it's hardly surprising you would accuse someone else of that act.


< Message edited by farglebargle -- 12/5/2007 8:47:33 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 8:54:32 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Anarchy only works until some idiot decides he wants to be in charge. At that point it devolves. ( Or evolves) into something else.



       Precisely.  Some idiot decides he want to be in charge of the road for example.  Or the line at the grocery store, or how late at night I hear his music.  Every third or fourth asshole on his own little power trip of "fuck you man, ain't no law against it."

      Devolving takes about 4 seconds.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/5/2007 8:59:09 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Still no defense of Anarchy.....I wonder why that is?


Dude, i'm on dial-up, surfing three different message boards, drinking, doing laundry, wrapping Xmas presents, and mixing epoxy resin on my kitchen counter... i'm a fucking busy guy. If you want instant service, you're gonna have to cough up some bucks

You want a defense of Anarchy? Fine. The Holocaust. The Crusades. The Khmer Rouge. The Great Leap Forward. The estimated 20 Million Soviets dead on the Eastern Front in WWII. The "human wave" attacks of the Korean War.

When you absolutely, positively need a body count to exceed six figures, you need a strong leader. One who has truly convinced you that He Is Right.

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 40
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