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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/7/2007 11:37:55 AM   
xAdamx


Posts: 92
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline 		Power corrupts, Absolute power corrupts absolute...do what the french do.... if you don't like the way your goverment treats you, take to the streets, march on city hall, voice your complaints

< Message edited by xAdamx -- 12/7/2007 11:38:44 AM >

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Does exactly what it says on the can

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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/7/2007 5:38:26 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		You mean like this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4413964.stm



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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/7/2007 5:45:41 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		THATS the way to solve our differences, sure. The grownup way - rioting...

What the hell. I guess I could use a new TV


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

You mean like this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4413964.stm




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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/7/2007 5:46:57 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		You are not stealing the television, you are liberating it from an oppressed Free Market.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/7/2007 7:42:26 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xAdamx

Power corrupts, Absolute power corrupts absolute...do what the french do.... if you don't like the way your goverment treats you, take to the streets, march on city hall, voice your complaints



yup and the founding fathers of this country rose up against the english and just plain shot them dead.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to xAdamx)
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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/7/2007 8:15:24 PM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline 		"if you don't like the way your goverment treats you, take to the streets, march on city hall, voice your complaints"

Not to say this is a good or bad idea, but that it is an old idea and perhaps we can do better.
 
While we have seen that protest shows results, in time, we have also seen that force often ends in violence. I think it is time for a new strategy. Let’s focus on sound reason. After all, if they are playing chess; we won’t win by simply trying to knock the “other guy’s” pieces over and I don't see convincing them to give up the game.
 
How about instead of trying to “fight” government, we change our directive and work toward banding the people together, based on a common goal?
 
Perhaps "For the people, by the people" and maybe we could throw in, "with liberty and justice for all".
Just a thought
 
k

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Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/7/2007 9:15:28 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

"if you don't like the way your goverment treats you, take to the streets, march on city hall, voice your complaints"

Not to say this is a good or bad idea, but that it is an old idea and perhaps we can do better.
 
While we have seen that protest shows results, in time, we have also seen that force often ends in violence. I think it is time for a new strategy. Let’s focus on sound reason. After all, if they are playing chess; we won’t win by simply trying to knock the “other guy’s” pieces over and I don't see convincing them to give up the game.
 
How about instead of trying to “fight” government, we change our directive and work toward banding the people together, based on a common goal?
 
Perhaps "For the people, by the people" and maybe we could throw in, "with liberty and justice for all".
Just a thought
 
k


It all sounds good. However, tThe problem is that, the peasants are divided. They'd be unable to even agree on a common goal... and the PTB is well aware of this fact.

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)
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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/7/2007 11:24:22 PM   
MasDom


Posts: 375
Joined: 11/10/2005
Status: offline 		One must ask, is their really control to begin with?
This is a  chaotic landscape, and we only deal with things as we come.
The rules are just so we can do just that, but some times the rules become a part of that chaos.
  Their for still chaos rules, as we imagine control.
And for this we loose it for the lack of understanding we give ourselves.

(in reply to subfever)
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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/8/2007 2:37:56 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Control is an illusion that must be well maintained. A better word would be management. We control cars, robots, computers, etc., but do not truly control others, or our environment. Instead we manage others and our environment.

As to the idea of revolution, we can do better than a violent revolution with the power of our vote. If everyone would unify to vote out every member of congress, with the message that we are tired of business as usual politics, that we are tired of our elected officials pandering to special interest and corprorate entitites, then we can effect change. I doubt this will occur though, as the sheep mentality of being a political party cheerleader is too deeply entrenched.

Live well,
Orion

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/8/2007 12:41:36 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

... If everyone would unify to vote out every member of congress, with the message that we are tired of business as usual politics, that we are tired of our elected officials pandering to special interest and corprorate entitites, then we can effect change...



I like the idea. Gotta wonder how many among the voting population are status-quo defenders though.

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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/8/2007 4:25:01 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

As to the idea of revolution, we can do better than a violent revolution with the power of our vote. If everyone would unify to vote out every member of congress, with the message that we are tired of business as usual politics, that we are tired of our elected officials pandering to special interest and corprorate entitites, then we can effect change. I doubt this will occur though, as the sheep mentality of being a political party cheerleader is too deeply entrenched.



The problem is that there is no "no confidence" or "none of the above" vote in the U.S.... We have to vote *for* somebody. A lot of times, that ends up being the same old crap in a different suit.

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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/8/2007 5:04:06 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

As to the idea of revolution, we can do better than a violent revolution with the power of our vote. If everyone would unify to vote out every member of congress, with the message that we are tired of business as usual politics, that we are tired of our elected officials pandering to special interest and corprorate entitites, then we can effect change. I doubt this will occur though, as the sheep mentality of being a political party cheerleader is too deeply entrenched.



The problem is that there is no "no confidence" or "none of the above" vote in the U.S.... We have to vote *for* somebody. A lot of times, that ends up being the same old crap in a different suit.



I believe the point OTW is trying to make is to keep voting Congressmen out after their first terms, regardless of who they are, until Congress finally gets the message that the people won't accept the status-quo "business as usual."

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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/8/2007 6:07:18 PM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

One must ask, is their really control to begin with?
This is a  chaotic landscape, and we only deal with things as we come.
The rules are just so we can do just that, but some times the rules become a part of that chaos.
Their for still chaos rules, as we imagine control.
And for this we loose it for the lack of understanding we give ourselves.


quote:

Control is an illusion that must be well maintained. A better word would be management. We control cars, robots, computers, etc., but do not truly control others, or our environment. Instead we manage others and our environment.


I wanted to comment on this before anything else, because I think it is important we fully understand what it is we are dealing with, if we are ever going to stop it and prevent it from happening again.
I do not think the question is whether or not we are being controlled, but rather, what kind(s) of control, how, and by whom.
 
Restricting people’s actions, by exercising authority over them, is control. Regulation of media output, among other things, so that the people are making decisions on limited information, is control. Influencing people’s thoughts and actions by repetitive symbolism and stressful environments, is control.
 
The thing is, not all control is bad, especially “self control”. It appears to me, the type of control being used on us is manipulative control, and we are allowing this to happen, by forgetting to ask how, where, when, and why, or allowing them not to answer. We even talk ourselves into believing there is nothing we can do about it. While it is much like raking leaves into the wind, to attempt it alone; leaves are still being moved, but together, we ourselves can become a force to be reckoned with.
 
Side note; If we ever do get this straightend out, I vote we change the title “president” to “chief representative”, or something like that; we don’t need a leader, we need to learn to lead ourselves.
 
Sincerely,
 
k

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Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/8/2007 9:27:32 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		You can call it what you wish. Control of people does not exist, it is called management. Laws do not restrict people, they offer a consequence for an action, if you are caught, and if you can be found guilty. I rarely watch mainstream media.Probably about 30 minutes a week, and that is only to see how they are managing the sheep this week.

Play semantics all you wish, I have better use for my time.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)
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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/9/2007 9:20:26 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline 		Whether one prefers to call it control or management is not nearly as important as the ideas that have been expressed above... which are both good. 

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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/10/2007 9:08:00 AM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

It all sounds good. However, tThe problem is that, the peasants are divided. They'd be unable to even agree on a common goal... and the PTB is well aware of this fact.

 
I agree that “the peasants” are divided, but I don’t think it is a matter of us not being able to agree on a common goal; it is simple unwillingness. It happens for many reasons, perhaps most prominent, selfishness.

k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/10/2007 11:57:09 AM   
Slavehandsome


Posts: 382
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline 		Its interesting that you brought up the word Anarchy, as if someone had suggested Anarchy as the alternative solution to a Giuliani-led state.  If nobody holds him accountable for his criminal tampering with the evidence of Thermate and evaporated reinforced steel in the rubble after 9/11, wouldn't that be one definition of Anarchy?  He played ball during 9/11 and let's face it, that secured his future in politics. 


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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/10/2007 12:44:30 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Slave handsome, you have to go back to the OP and see what this is about.  Well you don't have to, you can set any parameters you like I suppose, but it leads to a non productive discussion. 

"We look upon authority too often and focus over and over again,
for 30 or 40 or 50 years, as if there is something wrong with
authority. We see only the oppressive side of authority. Maybe it
comes out of our history and our background. What we don't see is
that freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they
want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom
is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to
lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."


The absense of Authority is Anarchy.  Several posters seem to disagree with the idea that living in a free society requires submitting to authority.  Authority can take many forms, and I prefer the one where the laws are created through a democratic process with checks and balances, and Constitutional principles underlying and limiting what and how authority can be exercised.

Feel free to explain  how an absense of authority is anything other than Anarchy (in the political realm).

If you have any sort of proof of evaporated steel, you can show that also.

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RE: Fascists Unite! Here's Your Man... - 12/10/2007 6:41:39 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

If you have any sort of proof of evaporated steel, you can show that also.


Bwaahahahaha


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 79
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