RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships?

RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (Full Version)

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LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 9:36:49 AM)
Most people do indeed act on and desire a different set of rules. I don't think it really works out for them very well though for the most part. I know with that particular situation my issue with her behavior had nothing to do with it being dom or sub- it had to do with lack of understanding expectations and respect for eachother.

kyraofMists -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 9:45:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Quite frankly, I don't think there are any rules for dating whether it is a mainstream date or a date between a dominant or a submissive. I think people would have less conflict if they realized that these unspoken expectations that they are carrying around are unrealistic and unreasonable. How can a person be expected to behave in a particular way if they do not know they are expected to behave that way? There are social expectations when we extend an invitation to someone to go out with us. These are the rules of etiquette that people are raised with in this culture. I am not talking about opening doors, I am talking about the rules of etiquette of politeness, and yes I was brought up with these rules. There are expectations when I go out with a friend, family member, lover, or even coworker that if they extend an invitation to me that they will be paying. Especially if I have been the one to feed them or pay the last time we went out. Same etiquette applies when I worked at bars (once upon a time I was a bartender), people would go out in groups, one person would buy a round, and the next time another person would... usually the men buying for the women in the group. This is social etiquette.... the rules of behavior that go unspoken for the most part. And like Celeste said, if people are going to ignore them without any prior discussion about that, this is rude and causes the other person to be uncomfortable. I would like to have clarification on my perception of what you are saying before I respond. Do you think that people who are interested in becoming intimately involved with each other should behave in a manner that other people think is socially acceptable and conform with society's expectations? Knight's Kyra

juliaoceania -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 11:41:40 AM)
quote: I would like to have clarification on my perception of what you are saying before I respond. Do you think that people who are interested in becoming intimately involved with each other should behave in a manner that other people think is socially acceptable and conform with society's expectations? Knight's Kyra I think that when we do not know someone very well that rules of etiquette help lay a foundation for people to ease social relationships and that when people act outside of these cultural norms without stating that they are going to do so they make the person that they are socializing with uncomfortable. I have been in the situation in which a date asked me out to an expensive dinner and expected me to pay for my half. He did not warn me this would be an expectation, and I thought he was rude and never went out with him again. He made me uncomfortable because he did not take in society's expectations (as you call them) of the usual date behavior, and as a result he cost me money that I could have spent on my UM as a single working mom without much cash. If he wanted to date dutch, fine, just don't take it for granted I can afford his expensive tastes. Once I am intimate with someone these things are worked out. I am not intimate with someone that will not be open in talking to me about their finances. If neither of us can afford to pay for a date, perhaps we should stay in and watch a movie... I have no problem with that, just communicate the expectations to me. My Daddy can attest, I am not about getting him to spend a bunch of money on me and I am as happy with a walk on the beach as I am at an expensive restaurant. I just want to spend time with someone I care for if I am building a relationship with them.

ExSteelAgain -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 12:59:07 PM)
Geez, the cost of the dinner or drinks is the least of my worries on a first date. I am insecure enough. If she wants to be quickly flogged, so much the better for me.

DesFIP -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 1:13:40 PM)
Considering he gave her insufficient money to buy him a drink, you know he wasn't planning on leaving a tip. I would have given the money to the waitress or bartender as a tip, and asked them to call me a cab if there wasn't a bus nearby. But I'm out of shape and couldn't do four or five miles easily. If she was a runner and knew she could walk it in an hour, then why not get her exercise in while working out her bad mood physically?

SirJohnMandevill -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 1:26:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OldBastardly1 In a 1st meeting, I want us both to go in neutral, niether D or s....just people. Well said, OB1! When I meet a submissive woman in person (or even online), I bear in mind that while she's a sub...she's not yet my sub. I'm a Dom...but not yet her Dom. So while we start off having D/s in common and can work that into conversation, it's like any other first meeting for me. And for the record, I always assume I'll pay unless the submissive offers otherwise. Les (Purveyor of Fine, Handcrafted Kink)

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 2:39:12 PM)
there is a lot of misconceptions about all kinds of dating rituals. with extremes all kinds of sub expectations of each other. Hidden agendas. So what everyone has to rely on is their moral compass everyone has one yep

laurell3 -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 2:53:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Most people do indeed act on and desire a different set of rules. I don't think it really works out for them very well though for the most part. I know with that particular situation my issue with her behavior had nothing to do with it being dom or sub- it had to do with lack of understanding expectations and respect for eachother. Exactly. It's difficult to tell from that thread what really happened as the original information is limited and then changes by subsequent postings. However what does seem to be clear is that communication is lacking and expectations are unrealistic. Whether she submitted to the guy before really knowing what he expected or he expected submission without explaining what was expected, he was a cheap ass, she ran out without telling him a word, he was a jerk or she was a jerk, I don't think we really know. What I do think it is was a mess because of the lack of communication and reality (ie reasonable expectations given the level of knowlege of the person) and I think it has nothing to do with d/s. Sometimes, unfortunately, our expectations are too low because of past hurts in the lifestyle we expect and look for people to be worse than they are. Sometimes our expectations are too high and we're looking for that white knight or princess. Either way, reality, respect and communication can turn a crappy date into at least a friend that has the lifestyle in common. Imo, expecting some perfect submission/dominance or protocol from someone you don't know and haven't taken the time to get to know on a nonrole level will most certainly lead to disaster. Edited to add: I don't care what the general rules are for who asks who out, I've never been on a date where we didn't discuss ahead of time who was paying for what. Assuming others know these unwritten rules and bringing financial concerns into a new dating situation seems silly to me when simple communication would solve the issue.

kyraofMists -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 3:46:57 PM)
I for one am glad that I did not follow social expectations when I first met the person I am currently involved with. Social expectations do not leave room to become emotionally and physically intimate with a married man. If I had followed society's expectations then I would not be leaving tomorrow morning to move in with him and Alandra. I was also not raised with the rule of "whoever extends the invitation pays". My parents raised me to make sure I had enough money to cover my share when I go out. I was also not raised to keep a balance sheet with people I socialize with. These "rules of etiquette" are not universal, and I consider it rude for someone to expect me to abide by the rules they want to follow without discussing it with me. I can be an extremely generous person with my time and my money for the people I care about. I do it because I want to and because it fulfills me. I do not do it because society expects it. I would lose respect for the people I care about if they did things for me because society expected it and not out of a genuine desire to give. I am very thankful to have had people in my life that do not keep balance sheets either. There was a time in my life when I was so sick and I was blessed with friends who shopped, cooked and cleaned for me. They sat by my side in the hospital; they spent time with me at home with no expectation of being entertained. This lasted for more than a year and I am so grateful that they did not abandon me because I was unable to reciprocate all that they gave me. To answer this question: "Do we hold our lifestyle dates to a different expectation than we do our vanilla ones?" I do not because I do not have expectations of a date beyond getting to know the person or spending quality time with the person I am involved in. All the other stuff of who pays, who opens doors, who does this or that, there are no expectations regarding them. I consider it unrealistic to have any expectations in regards to that type of stuff with someone that I don't know. I may have preferences of what I would like, but I do not expect it. quote: are you saying if a person retains a measure of control over some aspect of their life isn't submitting to someone? Or are you saying that in that one area they are not submiitting to someone? They do not submit in that area. Knight's Kyra

juliaoceania -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 5:18:59 PM)
Thanks for your reply.... I suppose I see myself as a part of the culture I was raised in, and we all usually were raised in certain ways with certain values and these values seem right to us. I feel comforted by these "rules" that govern society. Culture is kinda like the operating system that serves as a platform for understanding our world... it is what runs our hard drive and helps us process information. I have no value judgment about your operating system, kyra. I do not much care what the rest of the world thinks of me, but I very much care what the person that I am interacting with on an intimate basis thinks of me.. so while you say "society's expectations", I do not give a rat's ass about their expectations. I only care about my own when I get to know someone and what their expectations are.. so it is not "society's expectation" we are talking about here... it is individual expectations, and we all have them based upon our own experiences.. cultural background and things that happen to us along the way. I remember when getting to know my Daddy I was very happy because we were raised in the same culture.. both around the same age, same ethnic background, same political ideals, and we grew up under the same state laws... he is a California native, as am I, and believe it or not, the way this state has grown, it is kind of not always easy to find someone like me. I feel comfortable because we were raised with similar etiquette... now mind you, I would never leave for a date without cash on me for my own protection, but in my culture, the way I was raised, and in my experience, I have found that men who act as though I should read their minds and know what they were thinking about "going dutch" were rather clueless, didn't really consider me or my feelings or my finances. Their expectations did not match my own, and I may form an opinion about their suitability for me because they did not consider me. As far as friendships go, all my interactions with others are reciprocal, that is the way human beings are... they give and they receive back. I do not keep a balance sheet on my friends, and I believe you twisted what I said about people that are takers... I just am not attracted to people that are not like me, generous with their time and energy... it takes two people to have any sort of relationship... and if one person only takes, that ain't an interchange, that is not a relationship to me... now you may think that it is... your opinion is not one I share I feel as though your entire response to me paints my values, the etiquette I was raised with as somehow shallow... not that I care what your opinion is anymore than I care what society expects... just saying, I do not think it is necessary to flame someone based upon their upbringing and cultural values... We were all raised with these values, the content may differ, but the result is the same... it means we all find certain ways of behaving rude, or lacking, or unseemly... I am sure you have a list of things people can do what would cross your boundaries of socially acceptable behavior.. they may differ from my list, but it is a list nonetheless

MissAnthropic -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 5:41:04 PM)
Boring you really dont have a connection but you feel obliged to stay - obnoxious you have an easy out and can leave feeling ritious indignation giggles Maybe it's me but we're all just people, I sure as shit do not walk around looking like a sexy nymphette at all times, I'm unlikely to even dress provocatively on a first date, I'm likely to bore you with endless talk of my children and my writting and various other things that may make your teeth stand on edge.If I really think you're a pretentious wanker I may even launch into a birth story weg i know that's just plain evil, but then I expect to be taken seriously and not be treated like a vagina on legs, who's been sitting around all her life aquiver waiting for the first person who comes along, all the while foaming at the cunt. <your supposed to be laughing> But in the right company I can be witty and well read, educated and interesting. Quite quirky and unusual. A lot depends upon whether you take the time to get to know me, listen to me, find out what my interests and passions are. First meetings tend to not bring this sort of thing out - they tend to bring out the surface person who has to operate in a vanilla world. You hope like hell the person has enough sense to start taking about thier interests other than they'd like to drag you under the table and fuck you, though even that's acceptable if the conversation is going well. The only real difference between BDSM and vanilla dating especially on a first date is your looking for different things. If anything the ettiquette is stricter in BDSM. People imho on the whole are a lot more polite, they have a formalised structure at least for first date, you have a safety net in place, you dont play on a first date, you have hopefully screened your potential partner via your local BDSM community,You're looking to see any glaring faults with a fairly critical eye. Hopefully all people are sober at the time. Lets face it vanilla dating has no such security, your hoping in a car with someone picking you up at your place, or worse your going home with someone after a few too many drinks at a local club, and hope to hell they are reasonable people when you both wake up in the morning and this will turn into a regular occurance. Whatever the date, imho set up a call to say get me the hell out of here, or simply extract yourself with some grace, I'm sorry I have a previous engagement and I have to go is perfectly fine. As for going dutch, unless it's previously arranged then I would expect my date to pay.I would definately be expecting my date to pay if he invited me to a fancy restaurant. It depends I think if it's a date or your meeting friends. I always buy my own when we're just friends hanging out together unless its something special like my birthday and its been said he/she would pay. cheers jess

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 5:47:12 PM)
Il ike what you said that you do not care about what the world thinks only what your dom thinks that is very cool I think how it should be. If you try to please the world and everyone you will only end up failing

stella41b -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 5:49:46 PM)
How about just meeting as friends and developing mutual expectations together? Nowadays I feel that most people set up a 'date' like it's some sort of job interview. Some people take themselves far too seriously. I don't believe in rules for dates. Why? I want the person to be comfortable in my company and to be themselves. If any rules are necessary we can work them out together once we've broken the ice. If you want to turn up with preconceived notions and your own agenda and expectations fine, but I'm just there to share my presence, warmth and sunny personality with you hoping that you're just going to relax and soak it all up and wait in anticipation for the big, soft warm hug which comes as standard with meeting me.

juliaoceania -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 6:01:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b How about just meeting as friends and developing mutual expectations together? Nowadays I feel that most people set up a 'date' like it's some sort of job interview. Some people take themselves far too seriously. I don't believe in rules for dates. Why? I want the person to be comfortable in my company and to be themselves. If any rules are necessary we can work them out together once we've broken the ice. If you want to turn up with preconceived notions and your own agenda and expectations fine, but I'm just there to share my presence, warmth and sunny personality with you hoping that you're just going to relax and soak it all up and wait in anticipation for the big, soft warm hug which comes as standard with meeting me. I appreciate your view stella, and I suppose I have my view based upon social science and the belief that we all have expectations whether we voice them or not... the content may differ, but we have expectations just the same. When I met my Daddy I knew he would pick up the check, that I wouldn't pay for anything, and he set those expectations well in advance of meeting me... He is still like this.. when we go out he usually pays, although I have on occasion picked up a cup of coffee, or paid the pizza guy on occasion. If I were to keep a literal tab I owe him a lot of dinners...lol. But I give in many different ways. It is his choice what I give. It always was his choice...But with us it was one of those rare instances when our expectations upon meeting were actually exceeded. And that is what we all hope for when we go out on a date, and when it happens it is magic When I meet someone for the first time I do not have a lot of expectations at all, I do have hopes....smiles

stella41b -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 6:09:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b How about just meeting as friends and developing mutual expectations together? Nowadays I feel that most people set up a 'date' like it's some sort of job interview. Some people take themselves far too seriously. I don't believe in rules for dates. Why? I want the person to be comfortable in my company and to be themselves. If any rules are necessary we can work them out together once we've broken the ice. If you want to turn up with preconceived notions and your own agenda and expectations fine, but I'm just there to share my presence, warmth and sunny personality with you hoping that you're just going to relax and soak it all up and wait in anticipation for the big, soft warm hug which comes as standard with meeting me. I appreciate your view stella, and I suppose I have my view based upon social science and the belief that we all have expectations whether we voice them or not... the content may differ, but we have expectations just the same. When I met my Daddy I knew he would pick up the check, that I wouldn't pay for anything, and he set those expectations well in advance of meeting me... He is still like this.. when we go out he usually pays, although I have on occasion picked up a cup of coffee, or paid the pizza guy on occasion. If I were to keep a literal tab I owe him a lot of dinners...lol. But I give in many different ways. It is his choice what I give. It always was his choice...But with us it was one of those rare instances when our expectations upon meeting were actually exceeded. And that is what we all hope for when we go out on a date, and when it happens it is magic When I meet someone for the first time I do not have a lot of expectations at all, I do have hopes....smiles Me too. Isn't it much better to have hopes as opposed to expectations?

juliaoceania -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 6:10:38 PM)
quote: Me too. Isn't it much better to have hopes as opposed to expectations? It makes me more grateful when things pan out the way I desire... yes

stella41b -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 6:23:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Me too. Isn't it much better to have hopes as opposed to expectations? It makes me more grateful when things pan out the way I desire... yes True.. It's always nice to see people have their deepest hopes fulfilled. It gives them that special glint or shine in their eyes and they start looking cute like little squirrels and chipmunks. It's always nice to witness.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 6:25:21 PM)
make sure you bring your resume and to have at least three references ROFL

juliaoceania -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 6:27:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64 make sure you bring your resume and to have at least three references ROFL Or would that be three witnesses?...lol

catize -> RE: Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? (12/8/2007 6:35:05 PM)
In my best Janis Joplin screech….. “……..prooooove that ya love me and buy the next round oh, Lord, won’t ya buy me a night on the town.” I left in the middle of a first date once. He talked me into going to a movie that didn’t interest me and then he fell asleep! The movie was awful, my date was snoring in the seat next to me. I stood up and he continued to snore. I went to the lobby and called a cab and went home. I don’t have a lot of expectations for a first meet but snoring is a limit! [:D]

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