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RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 9:08:51 AM   
patwi


Posts: 296
Joined: 6/24/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

By explodes I mean...it got a lot of hits. I don't see this as a bad thing?

And the underlined bit was me laying out the part that trips me up. I love all the replies I've had. I can't change my brain overnight. This is a lot for me to think on and a lot for me to process here. That part you pointed out is exactly my hang up. Did you expect me to be able to snap my fngers and say "Oh, ok, issue fixed."? I can't. I'm working on it, slowly.



I underlined what you wrote because I really took offense at how you seem to think that submissives just walk around like zombies and silently obey. I already told you we come from all walks of life, all manner of corporate executives, we are high powered women, we make decisions all day in all areas of our lives.



Well, you're right. Or, were. That's what I am working on, that right there, and yes all of these posts and replies are helping very much. My brain is too wired for black and white, I need to beat it into shades of grey. Or gray, whichever you prefer.

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 9:24:35 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

Sheesh I log off for the night and the thread explodes.  :)

A few things : First, why is everyone suggesting therapy? No offence but honestly I find things to be much more satisfying when I can work through them on my own and not have to pay someone to do it for me.

Also - to whoever sugegsting I may be a dom? No...no. I've tried imagining things from that standpoint and the reaction I get is "meh." I picked the term switch because I didn't want to identify with one or the other. I think though that with women I could dom. Men? no. so I guess that makes me a switch? I could never submit to a woman, it jhust doesn't.."do it" for me.

Anyhow - Noah a lot of what you say makes sense, but I can assure you I'm not enjoying this at all. I'm no self-sadist, heh.  Let me clarify - I'm not interested in a 24/7 TPE m/s relationship. There's just no way I could do it. I'm wrestling with trying to balance those things I secretly think about with the actual me, my personality.  

When I say I don't see being a submissive person as being a "good" thing, I mean that when I see a submissive person in day to day life, it's usually the wife silently following her husband apologizing at every turn, or the girlfriend faking interest or disinterest in things making every effort to please her boyfriend and never herself. The last thing I want is people to see me and think "Oh...she's a submissive." I know that I am rambling, and therefore not making much sense.


More to come after I finish my coffee and let things simmer....heh.



I  am someone who has had conflicted feelings about BDSM for a long time.

Here are some of my thoughts:

What part of BDSM attracts you?...not the parts you don't like, but the parts you wish you didn't.

(BDSM is a blanket term: Bondage/Discipline; Dominance/submission; Sado-masochism)

"When I say I don't see being a submissive person as being a "good" thing, I mean that when I see a submissive person in day to day life, it's usually the wife silently following her husband apologizing at every turn, or the girlfriend faking interest or disinterest in things making every effort to please her boyfriend and never herself. The last thing I want is people to see me and think "Oh...she's a submissive." I know that I am rambling, and therefore not making much sense. "
 
No, what you have said makes perfect sense.
I think you see women who chose to be in a submissive lifestyle to be weak-willed and that is a thought that you can not abide.
(I also think you see that perhaps needing a therapist would place you in the same category)

For me... being submissive is about having/being able to develop a strong sense of who you are...it is not about being a "yes, whatever you want" person... someone without thoughts feelings ideas or an IDENTITY of one's own.
If you don't have the ability to say no: in your relationships, in your life...does YES mean anything?

In your context submissive is such an awful thing... for you...and it would be so with me.

Being a strong woman and being perceived as a strong woman drives you...(this is how I perceive you from your posts... I may be off-base).

How is it weak to express your desire for, say, being bound?
Allowing someone to put you in such a vulnerable position...it takes alot of strength to be able to consensually relinquish the control of your movement to another...after all there are things that may occur to you that need attention but you won't be able to tend to them then.
Or if you feel a need to be put over someone's knee and be spanked because you did not do enough today... .
A need to serve someone...of knowing exactly what is expected of you with no guesswork... .
That isn't weak either.

Surrender is an action... it is not passive.

You don't want to be passive.

and if I am wrong about any of this.. let me know.... .

jenn





(in reply to patwi)
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RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 9:33:00 AM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

Edited to add : Those images I gave an example of are what I see in my head when I think of the word "submissive." Yes, that is changing/will change but I won't apologise for being honest and laying on the line the hang up I have over the word. If I didn't want to change it, I wouldn't have even posted here. Had you expected me to post this morning saying "Woo! I'm a submissive now, I have seen the light, all that was wrong with me, all the false notions I had have evaoprated!"? Please...show me some patience. And understand that what I post isn't meant to offend anyone, it's meant to illustrate why I'm having problems getting past something. If that makes sense.


There is your answer. You didn't understand submissiveness. You have been given some excellent information about what it is personally from some excellent submissive women, who have quite clearly offered a definition--a picture that is quite different from that which "[you] see in [your] head." You don't have to come back and post "Woo! I'm a submissive now, I have seen the light, all that was wrong with me, all the false notions I had have evaoprated!"? however, you might have come back and posted that you didn't understand submission, but you will undertake to learn as much as you can about it.

(in reply to patwi)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 10:04:09 AM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline 		tee is perverted. Heheheheh.

(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 10:08:56 AM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		Yes I am you wicked woman; perverted as a pickle! Unless it isn't anymore...

(Gonna perv you now, gorgeous!)

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RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 12:02:55 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi
When I say I don't see being a submissive person as being a "good" thing, I mean that when I see a submissive person in day to day life, it's usually the wife silently following her husband apologizing at every turn, or the girlfriend faking interest or disinterest in things making every effort to please her boyfriend and never herself. The last thing I want is people to see me and think "Oh...she's a submissive." I know that I am rambling, and therefore not making much sense.


Despite the pain and annoyance that you may have caused to other submissives present by expressing these feelings, I do understand what you are saying.  And it does make sense.  To be honest, I think you may have hit the nail on the head here as to why you find it difficult to accept and enjoy your private erotic feelings.

Basically, what you are stumbling across is the difference between a strong, self-possessed woman's personal sexual needs--which is what your submissive feelings seem to be--versus the level of public submission from women generally, which many people in our patriarchal society expect or practice in their daily lives.

There is a world of difference, I assure you.  For one thing, men of great personal and moral strength often choose submission and service of their own accord--it is not something exclusive to women or to the weak, it is not always sexual, and it is not always an act of moral cowardice based on fear of someone else's power.

For another thing, there is a huge difference between sexual play, intimate relationship dynamics or devotion that are chosen by an individual because they fulfill his/her own needs...versus societal expectations that are imposed on all men and women universally, regardless of what they personally need or want.

From my point of view, BDSM can do the world a tremendous service simply by existing, because it can force people to consider and address these issues consciously--rather than blindly accept gender roles which are oppressive.

No one should submit OR dominate because it is assumed to be the duty of their gender.  They should submit or dominate because they choose to, because it fulfills them and allows them to deepen their experience of being alive.

The petty suffering of a woman who is abused by a insensitive boor and the self-imposed suffering of a woman who cannot stand up to a boyfriend for fear of losing him?  Really have very little to do with the exquisite and erotic ecstasy that a woman who chooses to submit to a dominant lover can experience.  The two types of submission spring from very different locations in the human soul and lead to very different places in one's life.

Just my opinion.  I am not a submissive woman myself, but I have known and loved many submissives of both sexes.  They are not despicable people--quite the contrary.  It takes tremendous courage to be yourself.

(in reply to patwi)
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RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 12:47:43 PM   
Tigrita


Posts: 484
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		I really understand what you're saying about the apparently or potentially clingy, passive, needy, doormat women you are picturing as 'submissives'.  I detested seeing those kinds of relationships too, after being in one that was all wrong for me and really messed me up for a while, I got super defensive about it.  But, I think there are a couple of disconnects between those perceptions/experiences, and the potential fulfillment submission can bring. 

The first disconnect, is that a lot of the women and relationships you are perceiving or imagining as 'submission', are actually just women with low self esteem, trapped in unhappy relationships.  This would be a miserable little shell of a woman at a domineering man's beck and call.  That is probably one of the images in your head.  This has nothing to do with consensual, fulfilling submission that most of us submissives in the lifestyle seek. 

The second disconnect is that women you might see catering to a man's beck and call, putting his needs first, making sacrifices and going out of her way to please him and not consider herself, actually makes some women very delightfully happy and fulfilled.  The feminist movement taught women not to put a man's needs ahead of our own, but some women find happiness in serving others, they find that to be their highest need and fulfillment, rather than having their desires and indulgences be the priority, they simply get more satisfaction from seeing their loved ones happy and doted on than being indulged themselves.  It is just a different type of personality, but that personality type has been trained to hate themselves because of the feminist movement.  This effectively removed options for women to be happy and fulfilled in such ways as much as creating options for them. 

Another disconnect is that neither of these situations may apply to you at all.  There are plenty of women who are submissive only in the bedroom.  They, and their partners find no need for them to follow, serve, or submit, in any way except for kinky, fun sex.  Nothing wrong with that at all!  Though, keep an open mind.  I originally put myself in this category, and now find that submission brings me great fulfillment in many other ways (and doesn't detract from the fact that I can argue the hind leg off a mule if I want to, can do more pullups than most of the men I know, and have more diverse groups of friends and activities than most poeple I know meaning I have a really full life of my own). It was a really hard realization at first, but if you stop judging and fearing it and just take things for what they are, information, experiences, different ways different poeple can be happy and strong, then you may find a beautiful, enjoyable journey instead of a dark and painfull struggle.

And I agree with the others who have stated it would really help to know more about what has drawn you here.  What are these thoughts that scare you, but that you can't stop yourself from having?  No one here is going to judge you or think you foolish or weak for having these thoughts.  We're strangers who will never see you in real life, so there is really nothing to lose in letting it out.  It will help us give you advice in how to express your feelings in a healthy, non-self-destructive way, and show you examples of how people who want similar things reconcile it in their head and in their life.

Best,

~ J


_____________________________

~ Tigrita

There is no right path, only the path you take.

Success is making life happen, versus just letting life happen to you.

"Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't enjoy them." - Charlotte

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 12:57:15 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Just because you have fantasies never means you have to try and live them out.

No one can make you do kinky things, no one can force you to be whatever orientation you are in your fantasies in meatlife. That's your choice.

A kink aware therapists might help you sort through your feelings but that doesn't mean that you must act on them.

It's ok not to be kinky after all.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to patwi)
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RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 1:01:32 PM   
Tigrita


Posts: 484
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		strong submissives

too strong to be a slave?


Those are a couple of links to threads about why submission represents strength, and why strength, empowerment, and assertiveness are common and valued traits in submissives.

I think another hard part is wrapping one's head around the dominant or sadistic side.  Why would you devote yourself to someone who would be such a selfish and mean jerk?  Well, they are often just as scared of their inner desires that feel 'wrong' as submissives and masochists are.  Many of them are good people that are drawn by an instinct, an inner tendency that is labeled wrong by society, and just want to find a healthy, consensual way to express it.  And these people representing the other half often don't want a weak, passive, selfless shell of a woman to dominate.  What would be the fun in that?  They get just as much pride, fulfillment, and satisfaction from a relationship with a submissive who is strong and empowered, as you do from being that person yourself. 

So just be yourself!  If things sound awful and totally unsatisfying, don't do those things!  Learn more about the things that do sound exciting to you, even though they are in that dark, 'wrong' corner of your mind.  You don't have to make it a package with a bunch of crap you don't want, just look for friends and potential partners interested in the same things you are, and not expecting things you aren't interested in.  Simple as that.


_____________________________

~ Tigrita

There is no right path, only the path you take.

Success is making life happen, versus just letting life happen to you.

"Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't enjoy them." - Charlotte

(in reply to patwi)
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RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 1:12:28 PM   
BondageSlaveMN


Posts: 80
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:


The second disconnect is that women you might see catering to a man's beck and call, putting his needs first, making sacrifices and going out of her way to please him and not consider herself, actually makes some women very delightfully happy and fulfilled.  The feminist movement taught women not to put a man's needs ahead of our own, but some women find happiness in serving others, they find that to be their highest need and fulfillment, rather than having their desires and indulgences be the priority, they simply get more satisfaction from seeing their loved ones happy and doted on than being indulged themselves.  It is just a different type of personality, but that personality type has been trained to hate themselves because of the feminist movement.  This effectively removed options for women to be happy and fulfilled in such ways as much as creating options for them. 


Might I add that, as with all ideologies, you have a choice to subscribe to them or reject them. This being true, it may be difficult to simply remove oneself from a particular train of thought. Take, for example, the hypersexualized, yet still very puritan nature of the American society. It is idealistic to be sexy, but it is discouraged to be sexual; at least as far as women are concerned. A woman who is sexy looking and acting is highly sought after, but once her sexual activities are reveled to the public, she is called a slut. This ideology is hard to distance one's self from because we have been so thoroughly socialized by the media and actions of others. Nonetheless, it is still your option to disregard the tenets of the feminist movement should you choose it.

Psychology 104 (I say 104 because it took me so many years to come by this knowledge): What you feel is entirely your choice; really, it is. Actions taken are filtered through a construct of Beliefs which lead to Consequences (or in this case emotions). Because you attach a negative belief to what you do and who you are, your actions are interpreted as bad and consequently you feel bad. If you change your beliefs about your actions and thoughts such that you view them in a positive light, you will ultimately feel good about it and who you are. This, or course, is easier said than done. It can take a moment to embrace a belief and a lifetime to change that belief. Trust me, I know from copious experience.

In the end, no amount of talking from other people is going to make a bit of difference if you are not willing to do the work. You have to be serious about wanting to change, whether that is to change your beliefs so that you can be happy with yourself or to rid yourself of your “kinks.” No one can do this work for you. My personal mantra on this this subject is as follows:

You cannot help someone unless they first want to help themselves.

I don't know if any of what I have to say is helpful to you or not, but I have found all this to be true in my own life. And as always, I would relish the opportunity to debate the finer points with you or anyone else for that matter.

Edited for formatting.


< Message edited by BondageSlaveMN -- 12/14/2007 1:13:13 PM >

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RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 1:15:11 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah
quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

No, you can't change your kink.  At least not without therapy, and you refuse that. 


So the day after the first therapist got his license was the first day in history when anyone could ever "change their kink"?

The magical powers attributed to "therapists" represent a myth at least as powerful and sociologically interesting as either Dragons of Faeries. In fact maybe it is an amalgam of those two.

There is a competing theory, Leanan, which holds that people can intentionally grow and change by a process of introspection, communing with caring friends, and careful practice. All this with not a therapist in sight.

Wacky, huh?



First, if you must address me in such an overly familiar manner, it's Ms. ap Leanan.  It's similar to addressing a man with the last name of O'Connor as Mr. O'Conner rather than Conner.  Please have the courtesy to get my name right.
 
Second, what part of "IMO" and "YMMV" was unclear to you?  The OP may take or leave my views in whole or in part as she sees fit.  Whether or not you agree with them is irrelevant. 
 
***Edited for spelling***

< Message edited by SylvereApLeanan -- 12/14/2007 1:17:33 PM >

(in reply to Noah)
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RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 1:24:55 PM   
BondageSlaveMN


Posts: 80
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah
quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

No, you can't change your kink.  At least not without therapy, and you refuse that. 


So the day after the first therapist got his license was the first day in history when anyone could ever "change their kink"?

The magical powers attributed to "therapists" represent a myth at least as powerful and sociologically interesting as either Dragons of Faeries. In fact maybe it is an amalgam of those two.

There is a competing theory, Leanan, which holds that people can intentionally grow and change by a process of introspection, communing with caring friends, and careful practice. All this with not a therapist in sight.

Wacky, huh?



First, if you must address me in such an overly familiar manner, it's Ms. ap Leanan.  It's similar to addressing a man with the last name of O'Connor as Mr. O'Conner rather than Connner.  Please have the courtesy to get my name right.
 
Second, what part of "IMO" and "YMMV" was unclear to you?  The OP may take or leave my views in whole or in part as she sees fit.  Whether or not you agree with them is irrelevant. 


Oh this ought to be fun.

Who attributes mystical powers to therapist? I only attribute a special respect to therapists with PhD's and and they certainly aren't magical, they just had the devotion to make it through a lot of school. Furthermore, there is a veritable plethora of poor therapists that should never be allowed contact with a patient.

I agree with your statement that therapy is not necessary to change your psychological make-up, but I disagree with the way you represented this information. This is tantamount to how Michael Moore presents his “truths” to the public. I might agree with some of his points, but I cannot find him credible due to the way he presents his views and twists information.

People can change. They just don't usually. I've found that it takes quite a serious threat for someone to change themselves. Most people claim to have changed, but they are really just the same person with different manifestations. I am not saying people cannot and have not changed, I'm just saying that it's extremely rare. And to do so without the aide of a professional is even more difficult. It would take someone who is extremely introspective and observant to accomplish such a task.

I think it unwise to simply dismiss therapists as sophisticated magicians in guise. There is a lot of wisdom in modern psychology. While I don't view it as a particularly justifiable science, I cannot deny that the tenets of psychology have very real and useful applications.

Edited for formatting... again


< Message edited by BondageSlaveMN -- 12/14/2007 1:26:00 PM >

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RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 1:31:40 PM   
MistressPav


Posts: 350
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

    As the title sort of suggests, I have soemthing of a problem. I don't want the BDSM orientation which I seem to be wired for. I've read the articles, I've watched the forums, I've educated myself. And still - I detest the fantasies I have, I detest the things that I secretly think about because no matter what I do, in my mind it is not a "good" thing to be.

   Have any of you ever been in the same situation? What do you do when you want to change your kink? Is that even possible?


I agree with what lauren0221 said as well..."nothing good comes from not being who you are." 

Someone who is skilled in past life regressions could most probably help you sort out why you don't like your fantasies.  This would also help you come to grips with your sexuality and learn to accept and embrace it. 

~Pav


_____________________________

Proud Owner of Zubi
(my boy "ToyZ")
Claimed & Collared 9magick#2008

"An it harm none, unless they deserve it, do what ye will." --Scorpio Creed

A- Rh-




(in reply to patwi)
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RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 3:37:00 PM   
SayaNereida


Posts: 152
Joined: 7/10/2007
Status: offline 		Patiw,  
First, let me apologize, for this is longer than I anticipated, but I decided to post any way.  
Oh my yes, I’ve been in the same situation; equating submission with some sort of weakness.  

I am a 40 y/o woman, I’ve raised a family (well a daughter alone), and I put myself through school, had a career as a medical professional, was bread winner of my household for most of my life and saw myself as equal in any relationship.  

This year, in May, I ‘found’ my submissiveness.  

My SO (for the last 2 years) and I stumbled into BDSM completely by accident with each other.  Once we recognized and talked about our interest, we decided to research; the first place I found and joined was CM.   I read, in fact I was ‘stuck’ to my computer for 3 weeks straight, plowing through posts.  I honestly was starting to think I had an addiction J but I learned a great deal.

My SO and I talked about a great many of them and came to an understanding with each other and ourselves.   In fact, we spoke again last night, due to your post, so I must thank you because your post has allowed us to leap over another hurdle in our understanding and acceptance.

Last night he explained why he hadn’t ‘pushed’ his dominance; at least not in the way I expected he would.  He explained that it made him feel like an ass and was afraid that I would feel he didn’t love, respect and care about me.  

I’ll tell you in general, what I told him last night: I am submissive, but I only submit to you.   
I submit to you:
Because of love,
Because of respect
Because you know and accept who I am as a person and woman
Because even though you are dominant you submit to me as well by allowing yourself to be who you are happy and comfortable being, without fear

 This type of relationship is called a ‘power exchange’ and for the first time, I believe we understand what that means; at least for us.   “As for what exactly bothers me?  I guess. I see it as admittance to having a weakness which I hate.” MY opinion is denial of self, any part of self, creates a greater weakness in a person.  It takes a great strength to accept self as self and not as one would wish.  If one consistently wishes they could/would be different, how can they possibly be all of themselves to themselves or with anyone else?  

I can tell you that what you see as submissive, “I mean that when I see a submissive person in day to day life, it's usually the wife silently following her husband apologizing at every turn, or the girlfriend faking interest or disinterest in things making every effort to please her boyfriend and never herself. The last thing I want is people to see me and think "Oh...she's a submissive."  is a person with no sense of self, no self respect and honestly has nothing to offer a dominant person, domineering person yes, dominant, nothing to offer at all. 

Although, I admit, I’m still new to this, and I may have it all wrong, (at least in someone else’s view) but my opinion is:  this relationship (D/s, M/s, or S/m) is just like any other relationship.  It can only be what you allow it to be.

Much luck in finding that which will make you truly happy.

 Saya

< Message edited by SayaNereida -- 12/14/2007 3:42:33 PM >

(in reply to patwi)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 3:48:47 PM   
littlebitxxx


Posts: 732
Status: offline 		Wow, what a great thread!  Thank you to the OP for starting it and also to everyone for their insightful and thought-provoking replies.  Like patwi, I had been struggling forever with deep, dark thoughts that were "oh so wrong" but excited me and made me feel tingly nonetheless.  I too saw submissives as being weak-willed, sycophantic doormat Stepford Wives.  Don't even talk to me about slavery!  Ewwww, ick ick ick.  Upon much research, reading of blogs and sites written by subs and slaves, I realized how very wrong I was.  Luckily I also had a wonderful first Dom that introduced me into this style of living through play and bdsm more than D/s.  His ministrations only showed me that there was more, oh so much more.  He was willing to stay at the play/fun part but I wanted deeper into the headspace which caused our, albeit amicable, parting of ways.  But maybe, patwi, that might be a way to go.  Start out with the sexual fantasies, the fun bdsm parts and see if that may lead you further.  No need to jump straight into a collar and poof! become a submissive overnight.  The headspace is ever so much harder to grasp than submitting in the bedroom or playroom. 

I am also the "independent stubborn authoritative little bitch" that no one would ever guess is submissive.  Always in control, the go-to girl, the mentor, the teacher, the boss, the mum of all.  Getting my head around being submissive to another was a huge deal to me but when the realization came it was actually a great relief.  It is not being a doormat, it is not being subservient or sycophantic, or even about figuratively always being 2 paces behind.  I've have had to learn who I am, and to like me, and to be solid in my own identity and self before ever being able to submit.  A hard lesson, well-fought, and soooo worth it in many ways. 

I'm hoping this thread, and the posters, are able to help patwi get her head around things.  I know I will be re-reading many as I fight my way to slavery (probably kicking and screaming all the way).  Hugs to ya, patwi.

_____________________________

There is no such thing as can't unless it is followed by yet

It is the meaningless little acts that become meaningful in the doing.

The people that mind don't matter and the people that matter don't mind.

(in reply to MistressPav)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 4:06:00 PM   
LittleWench


Posts: 265
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I agree with what lauren0221 said as well..."nothing good comes from not being who you are."


I disagree, there are jails filled with people who were compelled to act upon their inner desires.  Some people should not accept who they are and should take every means possible, including chemical castration or life long incarceration, in order to prevent themselves from acting on their fantasies.  That, however, is not the case here.

I made the change from independant, headstrong, Humourless Ice Queen In Need Of A Good Humping, to a submissive.  I fought my partner, fought for control in the relationship, and then one day I just let go.  I let go of the need to control him and to control our relationship.  I stopped clinging to my pride and my ego as a banner that defined who I was, and just allowed myself to be.  I made myself vulnerable and that is one of the scariest things I have ever done.  In that moment when I was at my most exposed, he was there to wrap me up and whisper that it was ok, he would never let anything hurt me.  I have never experienced any emotion so deep or powerful.

(in reply to MistressPav)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 5:22:22 PM   
flower2007


Posts: 120
Joined: 4/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

When I say I don't see being a submissive person as being a "good" thing, I mean that when I see a submissive person in day to day life, it's usually the wife silently following her husband apologizing at every turn, or the girlfriend faking interest or disinterest in things making every effort to please her boyfriend and never herself. The last thing I want is people to see me and think "Oh...she's a submissive." I know that I am rambling, and therefore not making much sense.


Believe it or not, I think I understand where you're coming from.  I don't want to be submissive either.  It goes against every bone in my being.  I don't even like when my BOSS tells me what to do.  Fortunately for me and my career advancement, he rarely tells me to do something, he usually asks. :-)

I thought about this for a long, long time, and finally came to the conclusion that I could never submit to someone outside the bedroom.  And being "forced" to submit?  Yeah, that's something else entirely.  I guess I get the feeling that if I'm "forced" to submit, I'm not really submissive and I'm not caving to someone's demands because I want to.

So yeah, you're not alone in not "wanting" it.

(in reply to patwi)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 5:34:32 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Are you confusing submissive (the state of deferring to someone else) or submitting (the act of deferring to someone else) with subordinate (being inferior)??  Submission has no status quality to it, no rank, no position.  There is no "lowly Stepford wife" about it.

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to flower2007)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 5:50:57 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

A few things : First, why is everyone suggesting therapy? No offence but honestly I find things to be much more satisfying when I can work through them on my own and not have to pay someone to do it for me.


You're full of misconceptions. Therapists don't change you, they give you a safe place to work things out and they help you when you get stuck by asking a leading question.

As far as why we recommend it? Because although you might find it more satisfying to work through this yourself the truth is that you have tried and failed. Now you might eventually work this through on your own, but you also might not. And what if it takes you 15 years to work through it instead of six months with a knowledgable specialist asking the right questions? Would you rather be exactly where you are in 10 years, still struggling with the same old issue, still unable to have a satisfying relationship?

As far as the woman pretending to be interested in football because her boyfriend is? I wouldn't call her submissive. I would say she is manipulative as hell and stupid also because she's cutting off her nose to spite her face.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to patwi)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/14/2007 8:40:31 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Patwi it's ok.  You're fucked up in some ways, and you're fucked up about being fucked up, and you've created/obtained some really whacky ideas about therapy and asking for help, possibly all tied to the same source of being fucked up.

Good therapists don't do anything except teach someone how to help themselves.  They are rare, but they do exist.

I think MasterFireMaam said it best- are you willing to give up some of your existing ideas in order to grow into who you will become?  You don't HAVE to become the idea of the monster in your head, you don't even have to do anything at all.  But this seems to cause you enough conflict to sign on to a kinky forum and ask for help from other random kinksters.

So you might want to consider doing something you haven't done before.  Because everything you've done before has led you here.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 80
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