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RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/16/2007 9:40:57 AM

Noah

Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

There is something intensely beatific about a humiliated and shamed womans countenance.

Ron

Give me a second here. I'm trying to envision a moderately beatific countenance.

(in reply to mnottertail)

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RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/16/2007 10:42:26 AM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

As the title sort of suggests, I have soemthing of a problem. I don't want the BDSM orientation which I seem to be wired for. I've read the articles, I've watched the forums, I've educated myself. And still - I detest the fantasies I have, I detest the things that I secretly think about because no matter what I do, in my mind it is not a "good" thing to be.

Have any of you ever been in the same situation? What do you do when you want to change your kink? Is that even possible?

Greetings patwi,

you have been an observer and a participant on these forums since june.
Your questions and delimas all basically have the same theme...you are denying what you are afraid you are. You have recieved awesome advice from both this side and the Gorean side and yet, you still struggle...

Inspite of not "comfortably" identifying with a label, you have managed to fit in nicely with all of the discussions you have participated in...finding acceptance and commaraderie.

Perhaps, as others have suggested, you stop trying to define yourself with a label. i know i am rapidly moving from any definition myself except that i am who i am.

Since i stepped into this realm on the submissive side of the kneel, i have become stronger than i ever was before. Cultivating and developing my sexual energy (jing) has been the most freeing aspect of submission for me.
At the risk of sounding arrogant, on bended knee, i am stronger than many who stand over me. my submission is my strength because it is not a need...it is a desire. Infact, as my growth has progressed, my "pool" of perspective Dominants has grown quite small and selective. But if you still percieve submission as a weakness after all the threads you have started and participated in since June - there is no changing your mind here.

Why not just stop worrying about it. There are many kinky vanillas here and being one of them does not decrease your value here. Just enjoy the forums and maybe take away a few tips for spicing up your sex life - stop pressuring yourself. This is life - enjoy it!

pax et lumina,
j

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to patwi)

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Post #: 102

RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/16/2007 11:38:33 AM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

Putting in my two cents patwi...

Back when I was married I had all these girlfriends who were as you describe...couldn't decide their way out of a paper bag. Couldn't ever figure out what they liked, wanted, desired...they were their husbands' clones...without a thought of their own. I know this because I was one of them.

One day I woke up and realized what I'd become and set out to change that immediately. From then on, I was the strong woman...didn't bow to anyone...etc...
and I had a great distates for those who would.

Unfortunately, I was also very unhappy. That's when I started to understand more about this life I now lead. I've picked up ideas, notions, thoughts along the way from some of the strangest places.

Amongst them have been Plato's Anthology of The Cave, where I realized that what I was believing in were just someone else's shadows of the truth for me. I didn't want the shadows. I wanted my truth - no matter how difficult it was.

Among them have been the movie "Take the Lead" with Antonio Banderas as he explains the concept of not leading in dance to one of the girls...when he says to follow takes strength... I'd suggest watching the movie for just this part if for nothing else. Then think about it for a while.

I began approaching submissiveness from the point of view that it was something *I* wanted...not lowering myself to someone else's desires...but answering MY desires. (it's all perception anyway)...

I got tired of living someone else's view of my life. I decided that strength would be to be able to stand proudly as I AM, not as someone else thought I should be. I am definitely a prideful person in many situations, but my pride has nothing to do with the judgments of others. It has to do with me rising to meet a challenge and overcoming that challenge to become better FOR ME.

Along the way, I discovered that all those people I was worried about... their opinions meant absolutely nothing to me and these days, I live my life how I want to - others be damned.

This means many things. But most of all, it means that I submit to this one man regardless of what other people think of me or of our relationship or of anything. I put him first in my life right up there with my kids. And I don't give a rat's ass who knows how I feel about him. INCLUDING that he makes the decisions. If they don't like it, my view is that they shouldn't date him. But I do and I am and that's that.

And to me... that's not weak. That's decisive.

Oh yea... Another place that I gained knowledge and understanding of submission for me has been any feminist piece of literature out there that affirms the right of me to decide how I should live my life. Just because I choose submission doesn't make me any weaker than those who choose... something else.

And frankly, part of what I consider my strength is that there is just no way anyone is ever going to tell me how I should live my life ever again. I know that doesn't sound like the typical submissive, but I waited for the right dominant who felt like I do...and he was out there.

You have no idea what your husband will think until you develop the courage to find a way to present what you may want to him. Hell, it can be a one time only game y'know...just to see how he sees it all and give you a place of reality in which to make a decision...rather than just your imagination and fears. He may surprise you. But when you don't tell him, you don't give him any credit whatsoever. And a game doesn't have to be repeated if you discover that your fantasies weren't all you thought they were... On the other hand, they just might be better than you ever imagined, but as things stand, right now, you'll never know.

Perhaps it's just me... but I'm strong enough to know that no matter the results, I want to know. I refuse to live my life afraid of the "what ifs"... what about you? Are you really that frightened?

juliet

(in reply to dawntreader)

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RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/16/2007 12:31:38 PM

sexyone4you

Posts: 613
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OP, I am sending you a PM

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RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/16/2007 12:52:03 PM

agoodgirl4Daddy

Posts: 336
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Some of the strongest women I know are submissive. Here and In real life. Are you letting the word twist you.? Submissive......does not mean weak. It has been argued, that it takes a very strong woman too submit at all

Jeff

*applause* i completely believe this. I bucked against the "submissive" label myself, because when used in the popular vernacular there is a negative connotation. A submissive/slave/girl/boi/boy (whatever label one wears) is OFTEN a competent, loyal, caring, loving, strong, mentally & emotionally HEALTHY individual.

For me, it is how i'm wired. To have a Daddy to give myself to ... to trust He will treat me in a way that takes me to the places i want to go (physically, emotionally, mentally AND spirtually).... to have the exchange of power that transcends us both.

Please don't think that being submissive or a slave or a girl lessens your worth as a human being! IT DOESN'T! It only makes you a better human being because you are following your path.

As far as telling a vanilla spouse about your needs, that is something you will need to decide for yourself. You can continue doubting yourself and being fearful about who you are.....OR you can take a risk and let your spouse know...realizing that he may NOT be wired the way you are. Perhaps renting "Secretary" and watching that with him. That may open a line of communication for you and hubby.

Good Luck to you!!!! I wish you the best on your journey.....

_____________________________

~We do not see things as they are - we see them as we are.~ Anais Nin

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RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/16/2007 2:06:19 PM

BondageSlaveMN

Posts: 80
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

As the title sort of suggests, I have soemthing of a problem. I don't want the BDSM orientation which I seem to be wired for. I've read the articles, I've watched the forums, I've educated myself. And still - I detest the fantasies I have, I detest the things that I secretly think about because no matter what I do, in my mind it is not a "good" thing to be.

Have any of you ever been in the same situation? What do you do when you want to change your kink? Is that even possible?

Greetings patwi,

you have been an observer and a participant on these forums since june.
Your questions and delimas all basically have the same theme...you are denying what you are afraid you are. You have recieved awesome advice from both this side and the Gorean side and yet, you still struggle...

Inspite of not "comfortably" identifying with a label, you have managed to fit in nicely with all of the discussions you have participated in...finding acceptance and commaraderie.

Perhaps, as others have suggested, you stop trying to define yourself with a label. i know i am rapidly moving from any definition myself except that i am who i am.

Since i stepped into this realm on the submissive side of the kneel, i have become stronger than i ever was before. Cultivating and developing my sexual energy (jing) has been the most freeing aspect of submission for me.
At the risk of sounding arrogant, on bended knee, i am stronger than many who stand over me. my submission is my strength because it is not a need...it is a desire. Infact, as my growth has progressed, my "pool" of perspective Dominants has grown quite small and selective. But if you still percieve submission as a weakness after all the threads you have started and participated in since June - there is no changing your mind here.

Why not just stop worrying about it. There are many kinky vanillas here and being one of them does not decrease your value here. Just enjoy the forums and maybe take away a few tips for spicing up your sex life - stop pressuring yourself. This is life - enjoy it!

pax et lumina,
j

Dawntreader,

I must comment on your remarks about labels. As human beings, we think and interact in symbols. A label is just another symbol. Imagine having a conversation without using any symbols. It would take you an hour just to tell someone you wanted to go to the movies.

Labels are very important as long as they are qualified. If I tell you I am a sub or a slave, it gives you a lot of information about me. Unfortunately, there likely exists a great disparity between my conception of a sub/slave and your's. That is where qualification comes into play. I can say I am a slave in the following sense: blah blah blah. I still embrace the title of slave because I need to in order to communicate effectively. I just thank god that the term slave does not so broadly classify people as the terms Democrat and Republican. If that were the case, when people asked if I was dominant or submissive I'd simply reply that I am a Nathan (my name).

To the OP. I think it is important that you find some semblance of meaning in the terms this BDSM community uses and figure out exactly which apply to you and how. As they say, half the battle is defining the battle itself (ok, I just made that up, but it seems true in my mind). Once you've done this, you need to stop hiding behind this conceptions you've made. Either accept yourself as you are or change yourself using the techniques I have already suggested.

I'm afraid I've spent too much time on this thread, so I will refrain from posting to it again. I've said my piece (and perhaps more). You will either take or leave the wise advice given by some of those who have posted or you will not. I sincerely hope you find your way. I, of course, welcome you to PM me on the other side if you wish to discuss your concerns further.

(in reply to dawntreader)

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RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/16/2007 7:41:22 PM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BondageSlaveMN

Dawntreader,

I must comment on your remarks about labels. As human beings, we think and interact in symbols. A label is just another symbol. Imagine having a conversation without using any symbols. It would take you an hour just to tell someone you wanted to go to the movies.

Labels are very important as long as they are qualified. If I tell you I am a sub or a slave, it gives you a lot of information about me. Unfortunately, there likely exists a great disparity between my conception of a sub/slave and your's. That is where qualification comes into play. I can say I am a slave in the following sense: blah blah blah. I still embrace the title of slave because I need to in order to communicate effectively. I just thank god that the term slave does not so broadly classify people as the terms Democrat and Republican. If that were the case, when people asked if I was dominant or submissive I'd simply reply that I am a Nathan (my name).

i will not debate labels on this forum Nathan ~

i will stand by this though...
patwi,
if you are uncomfortable with a label you identify with, change the label or change yourself but stop asking a forum of BDSMers to help you get rid of your kink because you find it distasteful and weak.
Some of us might take offense to how weak and distasteful you find submissive women.

j

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to BondageSlaveMN)

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Post #: 107

RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/16/2007 10:20:59 PM

tinoketsheli

Posts: 50
Joined: 12/9/2007
Status: offline

Its amazing how much power a submissive can actually have over a Dom/Domme. I know that you aren't dominate but perhaps bring a blindfold into foreplay just for fun, see where it goes...

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RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/16/2007 10:38:34 PM

NaiveTempest

Posts: 345
Joined: 11/20/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

Sheesh I log off for the night and the thread explodes. :)

A few things : First, why is everyone suggesting therapy? No offence but honestly I find things to be much more satisfying when I can work through them on my own and not have to pay someone to do it for me.

Also - to whoever sugegsting I may be a dom? No...no. I've tried imagining things from that standpoint and the reaction I get is "meh." I picked the term switch because I didn't want to identify with one or the other. I think though that with women I could dom. Men? no. so I guess that makes me a switch? I could never submit to a woman, it jhust doesn't.."do it" for me.

Anyhow - Noah a lot of what you say makes sense, but I can assure you I'm not enjoying this at all. I'm no self-sadist, heh. Let me clarify - I'm not interested in a 24/7 TPE m/s relationship. There's just no way I could do it. I'm wrestling with trying to balance those things I secretly think about with the actual me, my personality.

When I say I don't see being a submissive person as being a "good" thing, I mean that when I see a submissive person in day to day life, it's usually the wife silently following her husband apologizing at every turn, or the girlfriend faking interest or disinterest in things making every effort to please her boyfriend and never herself. The last thing I want is people to see me and think "Oh...she's a submissive." I know that I am rambling, and therefore not making much sense.

More to come after I finish my coffee and let things simmer....heh.

Who said that to be a sub you have to be in a 24/7 TPE s/m relationship? I don't see it that way. While I have not yet submitted so I don't have the knowledge of others, I have that which is in my heart. I do not think I struggled as hard as you are. I did have the fear of ending up like those women you mentioned, but only breifly. I quickly came to feel that there was a difference between being a sub and being a doormat. People can take a word and use it, twist it and popular opinion will adopt that one definition. But most words always have more than one meaning, more than one way to be used. Don't focus on that negative usage of the word. Find that definition that is you. Think of the movie "Happy Feet" and find your 'heart song'. Disliking or hating a part of yourself is destructive. Learn. Accept. Conquer. And be at peace.

Wish you all the best

_____________________________

"All the things I should have said that I never said/All the things we should have done that we never did/All the things I should have given, but I didn't.../Give me these moments back..."

Kate Bush, "This Woman's Work"

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RE: What to do when you don't like what you do. - 12/16/2007 11:58:37 PM

Kalista07

Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
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i'm sure i'll get flamed for this....but, eh...i'll just have to suck it up....

To me the answer to Your question is pretty simple..."What to do when you don't like what you do?"

hmmmmmmmmmm....Stop doing it??? Do something else??? Work on yourself or Your perception of things...

But, don't mind me....i've apparently consumed a weeee bit much sleepy medicine and have no sleepy in me..

heh
Kali

_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb

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