RE: Stella Undesirable?

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RCdc -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 3:12:43 PM)
I apologise for sounding kinda vague CL - I just don't know how to explain it and her site does a rocking job. As Lucy has given it, I won't - but if you visit her profile here, its on there too. (Sorry my assumption you would know). the.dark.

CalifChick -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 3:22:00 PM)
The short version: Stella has what is called a "genetic mosaic" makeup (according to her, I am assuming she has had the genetic testing to diagnose this). Normally, a woman has XX chromosomes and a man has XY chromosomes in every cell. In a person with the mosaic condition, some cells may have XX, some may have XY, and some may have what is referred to as XO (one X chromosome and nothing else). They are born appearing male, but do not develop further as males during puberty. Some develop female characteristics (while retaining their male genitalia), others do not develop at all. Stella states that she developed female characteristics such as breasts. Because "legally" we classify people based on what is between their legs, a person with a mosaic condition is legally classified as a male unless their male genitalia has been removed. Stella has not undergone this surgery. Unless she is carrying a court order stating that she is a female, it is very likely that the "female" indication on her passport/visa was the problem - although I was not aware that customs/immigration inspected anyone's genitalia to make sure they matched what their outward appearance is. Cali (not a doctor or a lawyer, nor do I play either on tv - and some of this info is a huge generalization, but you get the idea)

Politesub53 -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 4:15:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord To some extent, if this Stella is, biologically, male. yet refers to itself as "female".. and has a female passport.. that could certainly be seen as a violation of customs law (as I can't claim I'm 30 on a passport just because I want to.. biological fact is, I'm not). CL, i am sure you are bright enough to have constructed the above sentence and not used the words "refering to itself" That is so offensive. It may be the case that Stellas passport does describe her as female, under the 2004 gender reassignment act As far as i know it states you have to have lived as a female full time for 2 years. Intend to life your life as a female, and be undergoing surgery. It may well be that the USA doesnt have such an act on the statute. Surely if a valid UK passport states someone is female, then that should be enough.

farglebargle -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 4:21:41 PM)
I'm surprised that the Brits are tolerating this intentional, studied insult to their Citizens.

Politesub53 -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 4:34:50 PM)
farglebargle, because some of us are not seemingly outraged. That doesnt mean its not so. i am not sure of Stellas passport status, or of US immigration laws. I will say this though, if Stella has a valid UK passport stating she is female, then the whole episode is a disgrace, and it is you Americans who should be ashamed to live a country that acts in such a way.

farglebargle -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 4:45:34 PM)
As a US Citizen, let me express my regret that the Bush Administration has chosen to treat visitors to our nation in such an outrageous manner.

Politesub53 -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 4:48:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle As a US Citizen, let me express my regret that the Bush Administration has chosen to treat visitors to our nation in such an outrageous manner. Maybe its just a bunch of over zealous officials, but we get them here as well FB. It`s sad but true.

CuriousLord -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 4:49:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord To some extent, if this Stella is, biologically, male. yet refers to itself as "female".. and has a female passport.. that could certainly be seen as a violation of customs law (as I can't claim I'm 30 on a passport just because I want to.. biological fact is, I'm not). CL, i am sure you are bright enough to have constructed the above sentence and not used the words "refering to itself" That is so offensive. It may be the case that Stellas passport does describe her as female, under the 2004 gender reassignment act As far as i know it states you have to have lived as a female full time for 2 years. Intend to life your life as a female, and be undergoing surgery. It may well be that the USA doesnt have such an act on the statute. Surely if a valid UK passport states someone is female, then that should be enough. The sentense isn't meant with ill will. I simply haven't determined, for my considerations, how to refer to this particular individual. The phrase wasn't reconstructed to avoid the ambiguity as I find step stepping senstive issues to be an act of questionable integrity. As I'm sure you're aware, English defaults to the masculine gender when a gender is present yet unknown or a mix of the two genders with a lack of a more approrpiate term. Unfortunately, I realize that not everyone has memorized such rules and that using "him" would've seemed offensive, too, for I would be denying this individual's chosen identity without even considering its possible arguments. I can see how "it" is seen as an objective, non-human term, also apparently challenging this one's identity. However, I hope one can understand how it was my hope that my reasoning for this word choice would be understood to be en lue of more appropriate terms. Alright, that took a bit more to explain in somewhat fair terms than I had anticipated. In any case, for the passport part.. the US is paranoid about terrorists right now. A passport, even from the UK, which doesn't match the individual's biology is a big red flag, screaming that there's something amiss. While it'd be considerably more understandable if the individual has undergone some sort of reconstruction to make the biology more appropriate, I do not believe that it is the stance of the US government to consider one's desired identity as valid for legal matters (such as passports) in the absense of court approval. I'm not even sure it should, so long as gender plays such a large role in society.. while the person's free to identity with whatever they will, provided it doesn't endanger others, the state's laws are based off the concentrate state of the world (as implied in seperation of church and state) and not one's belief. Apparently, I'm long winded when tired.

CuriousLord -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 4:58:22 PM)
Thanks for the summary. It really helps to explain the general feelings going on here. That must be pretty hard for her.. poor thing. It does sound like the police were out of line. Erm.. I need to read that site. I saw "transexual" in the OP and figured a male to female TS.. ah wells.

Politesub53 -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 5:02:38 PM)
CL, Halley stated that Stella was given a reason for the refused entry being to do with employment. To me that sounds like a cop out. This was a decision based on prejudice of Stellas sexuality and nothing else. As for the grammar, you could have replaced "yet refers to itself as "female".. " with "Identifies as female" doing away with the need to use "Itself" although i accept you didnt mean any ill will.

slaveluci -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 5:06:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: camille65 Ah Stella I am so very sorry, I can't imagine how awful this experience is I totally agree with camille. I went to Stella's website and read this: "But there's a happy ending and like the first few flakes of the first November snow, she came back into my life. My life makes perfect sense, all of it, and with an enormous amount of luck, kindness from others, and faith and persistence in the dreams I formed between the times I was 15 and 17 are now starting to come true, and the one person I needed and was searching for throughout my life is now waiting for me to come home. Just like a Hollywood movie, this life story has a happy ending. I'm going home." It brought tears to my eyes reading this. God bless you, Stella and your friend and love. I'm so sorry that this sickening treatment has been visited upon you. It's truly abhorrent................luci

DBnBecca -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 5:29:43 PM)
Halley-- This strikes me as sosmehting the National Coalition for Sexual Freedom Might be able to help with as well. Their website is http://www.ncsfreedom.org/ and under contact us they list a phone number which supposedly has information for help 24 hours a day in case of emergency. --Becca

AAkasha -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 5:55:56 PM)
What a horrible situation. Regardless of what issues/preducides are driving all of this, if she was entering on a tourist visa and gave any indication her plans were to stay long term, they won't let her in. They can be dicks about it. At least, that is my understanding of how immigration works here. Unless she applied for a work visa ahead of time and had a sponsor or something? It sounds like there's no immigration lawyer present. If she just intends to stay through Christmas and help out, that should be fine under a tourist visa. If she intends to stay and guardianship of your child, there are probably a host of legal and immigration issues that must be dealt with BEFORE....? Akasha

camille65 -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 5:57:48 PM)
I wish I could do something to help, I wish I knew if she were safe. It is so hard sometimes caring for a person you know only on the internet, it is hard not knowing if they are okay.[8\|]

Marc2b -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 6:35:34 PM)
ghitaPVH and others make some good points that should remind us not to view every single detail of this as the result of someone’s bias or cruelty. Such forces may have played a role but this could also be just another case of a bureaucracy gone wild. More than likely it is all of the above and more. Besides, bias, hatred and anger cloud thinking and are a distraction from the real goal – FREE STELLA ! With that in mind I want to toss my weight behind those who say to contact everybody. This is going to sound crass but the truth is there are systems out there you can manipulate to your advantage in winning your friend’s freedom. In cases like this you must HOWL. Whip off mass emails to everybody in all levels and media of the news business (even those you think won’t be interested – you never know). If you don’t know how, odds are you know someone who does. Whip out mass emails to all the civil rights groups as well. This may sound weird but you should even send word out to various law firms – sometimes they look for pro bono cases that will make them look good. In short, there are all sorts of groups out there who would love to advance their cause (and/or make a buck) by squawking about it, covering those who squawk about it, squawking about those who squawk about it... and so on. Get help and get going. With a little luck, who knows, maybe Bill O’Reilly will invite you on his show so he can denounce you as an America-hating, secular progressive who’s soft on border security ("he was disguised as a woman! You don’t call that suspicious?"). Now that may sound like a bad thing but it would be national exposure. That is ultimately what I mean by manipulation – there are people out there who will wage this fight for you. You need to make them aware. The aim, of course, is to embarrass the government into letting Stella go. It occurs to me that those of us here could send a few emails of our own or perhaps post it on other blogs. I realize that anonymity is important to some people and that we don’t really want to draw the Collarme site into a national debate (oh God, can you imagine the fun O’Reilly could have bashing this site) but it there is someone out there you can let know – then let them know. Spread the word. FREE STELLA!!!! Waiting anxiously for an update while thinking about who I can spread the word to... Marc2b

thompsonx -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 6:38:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave Sounds like a soap opera to me. Yes I know I am wicked, but Stella lives off the taxpayer and believes it is right that she should do so. After all she is a playwrite The US has a less conciliatory attitude to such members of the glitterati, I am happy to say, seeksfemslave: If she is a playwright then how is she being supported by the taxpayers and not the ticket buyers for her plays? thompson

sexyred1 -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 6:44:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave Sounds like a soap opera to me. Yes I know I am wicked, but Stella lives off the taxpayer and believes it is right that she should do so. After all she is a playwrite The US has a less conciliatory attitude to such members of the glitterati, I am happy to say, seeksfemslave: If she is a playwright then how is she being supported by the taxpayers and not the ticket buyers for her plays? thompson Yes, I would like to know what seeksfemslave means by that as well. I am an avid theater goer and from what I know, and having relatives who work in the theater unions, playwrights get paid for their work by producers and theater patrons who buy tickets. I doubt it is any different in the UK or anywhere else.

farglebargle -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 8:02:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle As a US Citizen, let me express my regret that the Bush Administration has chosen to treat visitors to our nation in such an outrageous manner. Maybe its just a bunch of over zealous officials, but we get them here as well FB. It`s sad but true. I wish it were, but it's not exactly a secret that the US really doesn't want visitors anymore. Just look at the pattern of incidents like this... I expect a lot of people just gave up. Which, given the VERY FAVORABLE exchange rates, is killing tourism here in the states... And like all faded empires, ain't tourism really all we have left?

camille65 -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 8:16:40 PM)
Halley is there any way that I can help? Please don't hesitate to ask if there is something I can do, and please I hope you keep us updated.

laurell3 -> RE: Stella Undesirable? (12/14/2007 11:40:07 PM)
I'm so sorry this happened to stella I know she was so looking forward to this and has struggled quite a bit with trauma in her life. With regard to the detention, while I'm sure it was absolutely horrifying to her, I don't actually think they have a choice. Federal jail standards require them to separate biological males from females. The determination is often made by genitalia and not identification because of the reasons for the separation. Mind you I am not saying it's correct or that it's not horrible for her. With regard to the medication. It is customary for any detention/incarceration facility to disallow medications until they can verify that they are legally prescribed. It's difficult to tell if that's what they are doing here or not. With regard to not allowing her to enter the country based on the fact she is transgender, that is an absolute outrage to me. As an American taxpayer, I don't find stella "undesirable". I agree, get as much help as you can, if that means press it does, but I would try the consulate and every civil rights group you can before making a determination to go to the press. Let them tell you when to do that. They will have a better idea of what reaction that will cause. Good luck to you and please tell stella our thoughts and prayers are with her.

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