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RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 7:59:11 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		You won't have the emotional response but you will learn about the physical. IE ropes, one of the things that has proved to be a major cause of early ending scenes was if my ankle bones were rubbing together. He's never been tied so he had no idea this could be such a problem to my headspace and so painful. Nowadays he either ties me so the ankles aren't rubbing or he rolls up a small towel and puts it between. But if he had felt them even once, he would have known about it.

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RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 7:59:54 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		What do you say to a masochist?  Thank you very much!

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RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 8:17:08 AM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		No way. Would topping help me learn to be a better bottom? Of course not.

Testing the physical sensations of some devices or activities could help you understand what the bottom is feeling, but that doesn't require actually playing the bottom.

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RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 9:13:51 AM   
vampchick88


Posts: 346
Joined: 4/10/2007
Status: offline 		  After going through some hardships I "subbed" to see what it was like and to see if I could feel anything. It taught me what its like as well as where to set boundaries and limits.  It was a great learning experience and I think it made me a better Domme. Knowing what they feel, the excitment and nervousness. Its why at first I constantly reassured my sub that no matter what he will never be in danger. He might feel pain or stinging from a flogger. Maybe even knife play, but he completely trusts me.
   Subbing is a completely different feeling than I thought it would be. It was odd from a Domming point of view but I'm glad that I tried it.

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RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 9:20:10 AM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

You won't have the emotional response but you will learn about the physical. IE ropes, one of the things that has proved to be a major cause of early ending scenes was if my ankle bones were rubbing together. He's never been tied so he had no idea this could be such a problem to my headspace and so painful. Nowadays he either ties me so the ankles aren't rubbing or he rolls up a small towel and puts it between. But if he had felt them even once, he would have known about it.


Taking the time to learn proper technique could have given him that information too. One has to be willing and able to learn from good people and take the time to practice and be critiqued by more experienced people. Has nothing to do with being on the bottom in my experience.

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RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 9:21:34 AM   
deeddlit


Posts: 484
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Status: offline 		I certainly enjoy flipping the switch occassionally.  I think it has made me a better peson and top.  I don't feel I can name specifics but I feel it has been benificial to me.

Deeddlit


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RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 9:29:15 AM   
MistressTaboo


Posts: 147
Joined: 6/10/2005
Status: offline 		I've always felt the whole you have to have felt the toys in order to be a better Domme thing was something Male Dom's made up to get you to bottom for them. I'm a perfectly empathetic,  sympathetic Domme without having to bottom. I’ve never bottomed and have no screaming need to. The idea of being immobilized would have me rocking hysterically in the corner. But I love tying someone up who loves it. Do I need to experience the ropes? Nope. I love to flog someone…do I need to feel the flogger? Nope. Hell I LOVE CBT…not something as a female I’m going to ever experience…and if anyone thought they were going to torture my bits and pieces they better be able to out run me once I’m out of the ropes. As long as I’m safe and sane why would I need to feel it? I can read my subs body language, I can tell if that’s a good flinch or a bad one..if that moan is sending or descending in subspace.
  My other issue is having watched the scenes for so long there aren’t too many tops out there that I would ever think of lying down for. The closest I’ve ever come is some fireplay.
  I believe the whole have to have bottomed to be a good top is a myth…

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RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 9:35:52 AM   
Solinear


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		I have to say that my wife topping me has moved my development as a Dom forward quite a bit.  I want to punch her in the face sometimes and there are moments where it's everything I can do to keep from completely falling 'out of character', but I've learned quite a bit about the direction I had been going already.

For me though... if I was trying to learn how to tie someone else better, I might learn a bit more by feeling the ropes when they're too tight.  I might learn when they're perfectly snug and be able to see what that looks like so I know when my sub is properly tied.  What I learn is going to be minimal in the "bondage and pain infliction" side of things.  Much like another person here, I am not one who 'gets' being humiliated, so I'm kinda lost on that part.  But learning a variety of styles of scenes can be invaluable.  I don't think I know everything or can learn it from watching scenes because some scenes or styles will never hit a public venue.  Most public scenes are about "Ooh, a single tail" or "Here is some bondage, now I'm going to do some fire play... or needle play... or pull out a violet wand... ".  Public scenes seem to be very much about using the implements, bondage and pain.  I want to learn about more ways to build a scene.  I might figure it out on my own, but bottoming to someone who has that knowledge would seem a much more effective use of my time.  2-4 hours to expand my knowledge about a particular subject of interest to me is an amazing deal.

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RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 10:26:13 AM   
undergroundsea


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Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		I think the experience likely carries some value with respect to general breadth of experiences, which relates to the point of becoming a better person, and direct insights. As pointed out by DesFIP, it can lead to insights that can be useful in the top or dominant mode with respect to physical play. I think there is also potential for insights with respect to mental aspects of BDSM.

It seems the question about whether a sub would find benefit in experiencing a top or dominant role is presented as a counteragrument, and assumes the answer is no. I disagree. I think similar potential for insights does indeed exist for subs and bottoms who experience the other role.

First hand experience is not the only path to such insights--they can also be had through intuition, and communication with others (dominants and submissives).
I don't think experiencing the other side is essential and I don't think one who has experienced the other side is by default better than one who has not. However, I don't think it can be said that the experience has no value.

My two cents.

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 10:40:04 AM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea


It seems the question about whether a sub would find benefit in experiencing a top or dominant role is presented as a counteragrument, and assumes the answer is no. I disagree. I think similar potential for insights does indeed exist for subs and bottoms who experience the other role.



I think the point isn't so much what is written above as the idea is rarely if even put forward that to become a good sub or bottom one must dom or top yet the opposite is commonly touted about.

But my first post on this really stated my opinion and experience quite clear I think so I won't repeat it here.

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RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 11:47:27 AM   
undergroundsea


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Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
I think the point isn't so much what is written above as the idea is rarely if even put forward that to become a good sub or bottom one must dom or top yet the opposite is commonly touted about.


Would you elaborate on what you mean when you say the opposite is rarely discussed? Based on your overall thoughts, I expect it is not that you think the opposite should be discussed. I expect you mean that because the question is not raised for subs, it should not be raised for dominants. I don't think that in itself is a strong reason to reject the idea that it could help a dominant to experience bottoming or submission.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
In fact that idea that learning to do rope bondage requires one to bottom to it or even that it helps seems just plain weird to me. How can having something tied around you or two you teach you how to do the tying?


Bondage was one of the first techniques that came to mind. DesFIP give a good example of how bottoming to bondage can give you insight about how to do the tying. I know a rop tope who designs knots and tries them out on a rope bottom outside a bondage scene specifically to ask how it is feeling in order to make necessary adjustments. Each approach--experiencing bondage and seeking feedback from the bottom--seeks to achieve the same result: better understand what it is like for the bottom.

To clarify, when I speak of having an experience of the other side, I do not mean going through a regimented program to do so, nor the tradition that was had in times past. I think simply having a knot tied on your wrist, or having a toy used on you counts towards this idea. It may be a more elaborate experience, it may not.

quote:

One does not need to have an experience to empathize or sympathize with those going through an experience.


I agree. I think we also agree that being able to understand how it is for the other is useful. And having the experience is one way to know how it is for the other. It is not the only way and is less relevant to you because you have other avenues such as experience, mentoring, years of communication and feedback from subs, and natural empathy.

We can agree that bottoming might not be useful or, at least, necessary for you. Where we disagree is when you say this experience is of no use for anyone else or that it is weird for anyone to think it can be useful.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 12/18/2007 12:14:59 PM >

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RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 12:21:14 PM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
I think the point isn't so much what is written above as the idea is rarely if even put forward that to become a good sub or bottom one must dom or top yet the opposite is commonly touted about.


Would you elaborate on what you mean when you say the opposite is rarely discussed? Based on your overall thoughts, I expect it is not that you think the opposite should be discussed. I expect you mean that because the question is not raised for subs, it should not be raised for dominants. I don't think that in itself is a strong reason to reject the idea that it could help a dominant to experience bottoming or submission.


It was very common until recently for someone who wanted to be a top or a dom to be told "No, you have to start off on the bottom" or "be a slave first." I've never heard or read someone say to a would be sub or bottom "No, you have to be a top/dom first before you can understand what you are asking the other person to do for/to you."

I'm sorry you feel I've rejected the idea for everyone.

I never said that at all. I said what I felt and what my experiences were.

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
In fact that idea that learning to do rope bondage requires one to bottom to it or even that it helps seems just plain weird to me. How can having something tied around you or two you teach you how to do the tying?


Bondage was one of the first techniques that came to mind. DesFIP give a good example of how bottoming to bondage can give you insight about how to do the tying. I know a rop tope who designs knots and tries them out on a rope bottom outside a bondage scene specifically to ask how it is feeling in order to make necessary adjustments. Each approach--experiencing bondage and seeking feedback from the bottom--seeks to achieve the same result: better understand what it is like for the bottom.

To clarify, when I speak of having an experience of the other side, I do not mean going through a regimented program to do so, nor the tradition that was had in times past. I think simply having a knot tied on your wrist, or having a toy used on you counts towards this idea. It may be a more elaborate experience, it may not.
[.quote]

I still don't get it.

Being tied up is not the same as learning to tie a knot or how to wrap properly.

Take any other skill out there, do you need to experience both sides to do it? Can you learn how to do it simply from having it done to you? Just because someone cuts my hair doesn't mean I can turn around and cut another person's hair as a mundane example. The odds are that I can't see how the cut is being down any more than I can see how the flogger is being held or how the top may change stances to accommodate the needs of her bottom.

Being done to is not the same as being explained to, to modeled behavior, and practice.

quote:


quote:

One does not need to have an experience to empathize or sympathize with those going through an experience.


I agree. And having the experience is one way to know. It is not the only way and is less relevant to you because you have other avenues such as experience, mentoring, years of communication and feedback from subs, and natural empathy.

We can agree that bottoming might not be useful or, at least, necessary for you. Where we disagree is when you say this experience is of no use for anyone else or that it is weird for anyone to think it can be useful.

Cheers,

Sea



My "weird" comment was about my understanding of the reasoning behind the "you must bottom" mantra. It was never a statement that doing that was wrong.

Hell, I've topped and then mentored folks who wanted to learn a particular activity that I could teach. Personally I doubt they learned much when they bottomed but I know when I demostrated on another person, talked through through what I was doing, guided their actions, then critiqued and offered repeated practice they did learn the skills. What they choose to do with those skills then is a matter of their ethics, morals, and empathy.

Just because someone doesn't tie a rope right or do the appropriate wraps does not mean it is because they didn't bottom, it simply means they have not taken the time to learn or they frankly don't care about "proper" or "safer."

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 12/18/2007 12:22:19 PM >

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RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 12:41:53 PM   
SeekingMyrmidon


Posts: 47
Joined: 11/2/2007
Status: offline 		I don't think it's crucial to being a good domme. I think it can be interesting, informative and helpful -- in some ways for some people -- but not crucial.

I've bottomed in the past. It was a way to play with another top with whom the chemistry was instant and delicious. It was a hoot when we discovered we were both tops. Too many sparks were flying to keep us from playing *one* way or another, though.

After a couple of play sessions I accidentally discovered firsthand how cathartic an intense scene can be. The whole experience also helped me to understand the differences between bottoming and submission. One of them I'm able to do without serious headfuckery.

While I don't know that it helped me be a better domme I do think it helped me be a better catalyst.

I don't believe I've ever been in subspace (though I've been in "as-soon-as-it's-my-turn-motherfucker-your-ass-is-gonna-regret-pushing-that-limit" space) but it was incredibly valuable to learn how sometimes some folks really *do* need to be given something to cry about. This was during an exceedingly stressful and difficult time for me, and I was so used to "being strong" that sometimes I forgot to "be human", and having a guy who knew what he was doing beat me silly helped me get a lot of emotional crap out of my system. (There was also a kind of one-upmanship thing going on between us. We had safewords of course, but we'd be damned if we were gonna use 'em.)

I've have had the occasional/wonderful opportunity to play with a couple of submissives who needed -- needed needed -- release and emotional catharsis (and knew it, and voiced the need) and having been on the other side of the equation it helped me to read them more clearly, and to push further but more gently than I might otherwise have done.

Anyhoo -- that's most of what I got out of it. Your mileage may vary. :>


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RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 12:49:25 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		My opinion: 
 
No matter how much a top bottoms to see what it feels like for the submissive... they will only know what it feels like for themselves.. no one can ever know what the submissive feels but the submissive. 
 
If you are talking about just physical reaction to applied tools, then just have a friendly dom/me show you.  Or better yet, thry them out on yourself then you know what YOUR delivery will feel like. This "you have to submit" crap-  ehhhhhhhhhh common now. If it is your nature to submit.. fine.  If you have to force yourself to submit, that kind of defeats the purpose.
 
If you are a Dominant type, all "submitting" will do is give you the feeling of being pissed off.  You won't get the same pleasure that your submissive does.
 
If you want to be a good top, study people.  What makes people tick, body language, anatomy, psycology, sociology and have a huge dose of common sense. 

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RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 1:18:42 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
It was very common until recently for someone who wanted to be a top or a dom to be told "No, you have to start off on the bottom" or "be a slave first." I've never heard or read someone say to a would be sub or bottom "No, you have to be a top/dom first before you can understand what you are asking the other person to do for/to you."

I'm sorry you feel I've rejected the idea for everyone.

I never said that at all. I said what I felt and what my experiences were.


I am sorry if I have misunderstood you. Instead of assuming via the reasoning stated in my prior post, I will ask you to instead clarify what you mean. I understand the point that the reverse is not commonly said. What I don't understand is what it means to you that the reverse is not commonly said, and how specifically you see it to relate with the question at hand.

quote:

I still don't get it.

Being tied up is not the same as learning to tie a knot or how to wrap properly.

Take any other skill out there, do you need to experience both sides to do it? Can you learn how to do it simply from having it done to you? Just because someone cuts my hair doesn't mean I can turn around and cut another person's hair as a mundane example.


I will give a few more examples to convey my point.

Here is a good example of how a bondage top can gain a useful insight.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
IE ropes, one of the things that has proved to be a major cause of early ending scenes was if my ankle bones were rubbing together. He's never been tied so he had no idea this could be such a problem to my headspace and so painful. Nowadays he either ties me so the ankles aren't rubbing or he rolls up a small towel and puts it between. But if he had felt them even once, he would have known about it.


If DesFIP takes on bondage, she can rely on her experience to have this insight about bondage at the ankles. Her top has likely acquired this insight because of feedback from her--he did not always have it. The point is that having an experience is not the only way to acquire knowledge or insights but it is one way.

While being flogged one cannot see how a flogger is held or how the top may change stances but one might learn how a wrap shot feels. That's not to say this is the only way to learn what a wrap shot is but it is one way.

I rely mostly on intuition to give massage. I went to massage school and learned additional techniques by method of learning from another by observation and instruction, which helped me further. In one class, we took turns giving and receiving massages. I tried to fail the class so I could go throught it again but they wouldn't let me ;-) Receiving allowed me to pick up further insights yet by experiencing both effective and ineffective techniques used by others. So here is an example of how experiencing a role opposite of that I ordinarily play helps me in my role.

I don't think being done to is in place of being explained to but in addition to it. It is one additional avenue to acquire knowledge and information if one wishes to avail it. It is does not by default make one better. And it is not necessary. But the idea has value.

Because learning by experience is one way to learn but not the only way to learn, I do not advocate the philosophy that a dominant must first start as a submissive.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 12/18/2007 1:19:08 PM >

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RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 2:08:24 PM   
rubberpet


Posts: 1743
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: The Land of Voodoo
Status: offline 		I don't think it makes a better domme, but I think it greatly helps the domme understand what goes on in a sub's mind during different scenes.  I really like the fact that Mistress bottomed before...it helps me put more trust and confidence in Her and Her abilities.

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RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 2:36:56 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
It was very common until recently for someone who wanted to be a top or a dom to be told "No, you have to start off on the bottom" or "be a slave first." I've never heard or read someone say to a would be sub or bottom "No, you have to be a top/dom first before you can understand what you are asking the other person to do for/to you."

I'm sorry you feel I've rejected the idea for everyone.

I never said that at all. I said what I felt and what my experiences were.


I am sorry if I have misunderstood you. Instead of assuming via the reasoning stated in my prior post, I will ask you to instead clarify what you mean. I understand the point that the reverse is not commonly said. What I don't understand is what it means to you that the reverse is not commonly said, and how specifically you see it to relate with the question at hand.



If it is good for one person to experience another role so that they gain insight why isn't it just as valid for the other person to reverse roles?

Why isn't it common to tell bottoms/subs to top/dom?

What does the fact that as a community was not common to tell bottoms to top but it was promoted as as LadyHugs has revealed required in some circles for tops to bottom even submit first, reveal about the attitudes toward the roles?

I'm just annoyed, no, not a strong enough word, pissed at the idea that it is required for tops/doms to do the opposite role while no complimentary experience is demanded of bottoms/subs.

It's a similar reaction I have toward lectures and writings which delve into the mental state and risks to the bottom/sub but basically ignore those same questions for a top/dom.

It's probably an irrational annoyance on some level but there it is.

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TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 4:29:54 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
If it is good for one person to experience another role so that they gain insight why isn't it just as valid for the other person to reverse roles?

Why isn't it common to tell bottoms/subs to top/dom?

What does the fact that as a community was not common to tell bottoms to top but it was promoted as as LadyHugs has revealed required in some circles for tops to bottom even submit first, reveal about the attitudes toward the roles?


Thank you for elaborating. I feel I have not conveyed the essence of my question, to which I will return later in this post.

Regarding your questions above, I expect that switches or major domos would say that having to top or dominate others has given insights for their role as a submissive. I think subs or bottoms could gain insights about the other role if they experienced the other role but here also it is not necessary to do so.

I am not sure why as a community it was or is not common to tell bottoms to top. Here are two ideas.

In older days, there was a difference in social status between subs and dominants, and for a bottom to assume the role of a top without going through what was considered a process to earn the status might have conflicted with the culture. This culture derived many of its principles from the heirarchies in the military where one starts at the bottom and earns the higher ranks. Even within the tops there were heirarchies based on seniority. Thus, that bottoms were not expected to top may have stemmed from the culture then.

Also, what would a sub or bottom learn by experiencing the opposite role? I think the insights would mostly be an appreciation or understanding of what a dominant faces: the burden of creativity, responsibility, energy required, techniques required, effects of whining, what it is like to be served, what it is like to be served too much, what information does the dominant need from the submissive, etc. Perhaps such insights can be had more easily through communication and everyday life experiences alone.

In any case, I do not suggest it is required for tops/doms to do the opposite role. If that idea--that it is required--frustrates you, fair enough. I oppose it as well.

I also say if someone wants to try the opposite role to learn, they will likely gain insights and it is fair enough for them to do so. Some people think the whole idea of trying to gain insights this way is BS, with which I disagree.

In this discussion, the OP bottomed to a bondage experience to gain insights towards topping. There is potential to acquire new insights, which is a potential benefit. If she chose to do it, what harm is there to be had from her experience that will outweigh this potential for benefit?

To clarify my question to which I said I would return, I understand it is uncommon to suggest that bottoms should top. What exactly does it mean to say that bottoms are not asked to top? Are you saying that bottoms should also be asked to top? I expect not.

If I am correct then are you saying the reason that tops should not bottom is because bottoms are not asked to top? Are you saying that because bottoms are not asked to top there must be no benefit in experiencing the role of the other? If so, I don't see the strength of argument there. I don't see how one convincingly leads to the other. Why not judge the idea on its own merit--whether a top can gain any insight from a bottoming experience--rather than ask why bottoms are not asked to do it? There are reasons I and others have presented for what benefit a top might have by experiencing the other role. Why not discuss the merit or not of those reasons as the basis of the discussion?

To me, the question is not that if bottoms are not asked to top, should tops be asked to bottom? To me, the question is whether any benefit is to be had by understanding more or gaining insights about the experience of the other side. To me, the answer to this question is yes. To me, experiencing the role of the other--however briefly or not--is one way to gain such insights. Thus, to me having such an experience can bring value.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 12/18/2007 4:35:27 PM >

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 6:16:02 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		undergroundsea I think we are completely passing each other.

I don't think I ever said in this thread that tops shouldn't bottom but I am deeply bothered by the idea that you must. Note the word "must."

I know all about the history of the gay leather scene but just because something was done a certain way in the past does not mean it was the best way or even the most appropriate way at any other point in time.

I get angry NOW when someone tells a new person "You have to bottom first" instead of helping them investigate their desired role in the way that is best for them.

Thank the Divine that no one said that to me when I started out 18 years ago or I would have never gone out of my way to learn things. I simply would have continued to be in the "boss" in my relationships without things like negotiation and full awareness and I, for one, think that would have been far less happy and positive for me and anyone with me.

The OP asked for personal opinions about whether or not we as individuals think that bottoming makes a better top and I gave my opinion, one of many opinions, so I'm a bit perplexed as to why my own personal opinion is being targeted.

I am not the BDSM goddess, I never claim to be, so why focus on my opinions but not others who have basically said the same thing?

As to the merits of someone bottoming, if it makes they feel like they've learned something, so be it and good for them. I do not think that there are innate merits to do this because each person is different and will process things differently.

On the other hand, I do think that mentoring and apprenticing have the merits of directly teaching someone the skills, giving them practice, and critiques in a purposeful environment BUT that is also not for everyone and I would never tell someone that they must go that route.

I still don't grok it but I don't grok why someone is a bottom or a sub or a slave, I am merely thankful they exist and in awe of their ability/desire.

But to say it is NECESSARY for a top/dom to bottom/sub, as is sadly still said in some circles, is to ignore the individual needs, desires, skills, and background of people and that I can't support.


< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 12/18/2007 6:17:33 PM >

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TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: bottom to be a better domme? - 12/18/2007 6:40:12 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
undergroundsea I think we are completely passing each other.

<snip>

The OP asked for personal opinions about whether or not we as individuals think that bottoming makes a better top and I gave my opinion, one of many opinions, so I'm a bit perplexed as to why my own personal opinion is being targeted.

I am not the BDSM goddess, I never claim to be, so why focus on my opinions but not others who have basically said the same thing?


I think we are indeed focusing on different aspects. I understand that your focus is on opposing the idea that dominants must submit. I too oppose that idea.

My focus is on the idea that if a dominant wishes to bottom or submit to whatever extent, she might find value in it and that choice is a fair one.

It is not my intent to target you. Please see my first post in this thread: post 29. It is a general statement that speaks of the different aspects of the discussion topic, and makes multiple references to what has been said by multiple posters. It does not make a specific reference to you. There were at least two others posts in addition to yours that used the counterargument I reference, and I made a general statement about this counterargument. My other posts after post 29 have been in response to your comments. In these other posts in response to yours, I have asked for clarification and elaborated on or supported my points, which is not meant to target you. I am sorry if I made you feel as such.

Thank you for responding to my questions :)

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 40
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