RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (Full Version)

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hisannabelle -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/21/2007 4:25:47 PM)

*dies*

i'd never thought of this stuff before. *adds being called "dr. cunt" to her list of reasons to survive graduate school* i love you people.




CelticPrince -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/21/2007 5:33:54 PM)

Nuts,

I know your pain!

CP




tomf22033 -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/21/2007 6:02:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NotNutsReally

After 3 years of classes,
2 weeks of grueling comprehensive exams,
3 hours of intense oral defense,
2 years of field work,
I've read a mountain of books that no one cares about,
Caused certain damage to my liver from alcohol,
Caused double that damage to my kidney's from coffee,
I'm unable to talk in social situations without bringing up Foucault or Marx or discourse analysis,
Now I have to write the damn dissertation which no one will read, and will lead me to a killer 40k/year.

So I ask, what's the point in BDSM? It can't possibly match the pain, humiliation and discipline that graduate school provides.
AHHHHHHHH I'm going to write.




Well other than the alcohol and coffee you're describing my life. Hang in there and enjoy the fact that you're doing something that so few get to do. Once you finish you'll be able to enjoy yourself.

Tom




tomf22033 -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/21/2007 6:05:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Hey, I just walked through my graduation with my PhD, NotNutsReally, this past Saturday so I understand how you feel.

Just keep focused on your lifelong goals and push yourself to write every day -- even if it's only a page or two, and you can get it done.

And get feeback from your committee as you go along. Don't put that off as so many do or you may discover after one full draft that you have to start over again or revise everything too much. Getting feedback as you go will save you time in the long run. Make sure your chair will have your back, so to speak, so when that borderline committee member who is really there to just fill it out makes a stupid suggestion, your chair can say "No, it's fine as it is" and let you keep moving forward.


Congrats!!!! That's SO GREAT.

I'm at least a year from finishing my course work, and another from my disertation, and I can't image what life will be like not to be taking classes, having hundreds of pages to read each night and actually have time for fun!!!

Tom





thetammyjo -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/21/2007 6:46:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tomf22033


quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Hey, I just walked through my graduation with my PhD, NotNutsReally, this past Saturday so I understand how you feel.

Just keep focused on your lifelong goals and push yourself to write every day -- even if it's only a page or two, and you can get it done.

And get feeback from your committee as you go along. Don't put that off as so many do or you may discover after one full draft that you have to start over again or revise everything too much. Getting feedback as you go will save you time in the long run. Make sure your chair will have your back, so to speak, so when that borderline committee member who is really there to just fill it out makes a stupid suggestion, your chair can say "No, it's fine as it is" and let you keep moving forward.


Congrats!!!! That's SO GREAT.

I'm at least a year from finishing my course work, and another from my disertation, and I can't image what life will be like not to be taking classes, having hundreds of pages to read each night and actually have time for fun!!!

Tom




I taught a lot so that I'd have less time and thus need to manage it better. Some folks do better when they must manage their time -- I'm one of those I think. If I don't have something to do I must invite things like X number of hours creative writing or baking or reading a book outside my research.

Burn that bridge though after you've crossed it.




NotNutsReally -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/22/2007 10:16:56 AM)

quote:

and actually have time for fun!!!


I thought finishing course work would rock. But then I realized after completing course work that I'm responsible for my own research .Now I don't just have to read those hundreds of pages but I have to dig them up. AHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH.

I'm feeling better today though like I can enjoy the process. Today's task... outline the recent political history of Ecuador, and avoid booze like the plague.

Best to everyone





KindLadyGrey -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/22/2007 11:31:10 AM)

And let's not forget the absolute slavery that is being a TA or Research Assistant!

I claim to be a masochist, but I submitted a few grad school applications, took a long look at life, and ran away and had babies instead. I'm pretty sure shoving 7 pounds out of my hoochie a few times hurt less than grad school would have.

Also. I obviously got laid, so that may have something to do with it.

I'm done having babies and I've been thinking about going back to school. Thanks for reminding me why I decided not to!

(But hey, congratulations. It's a big accomplishment :) )




Faramir -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/22/2007 11:33:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BondageSlaveMN
I took a course in discourse analysis and found it rather enjoyable. Maybe my masochism reaches farther into my vanilla life than I thought...


Uuh-rah!

I'm in coursework for my Ph.D. in rhetoric, and just finished a discourse analysis seminar--one of the best things I've ever been inoved in, loved it from start to finish.  My big research project was for "jodies," the military work songs Marines sing while marching or running in formation.  I looked at it as a formal of orally transmitted knowledge, using Walter Ong's (1982) description.  I found jodies to be a discursive performance that helps Marines shape identity and a discursive practice that helps them "talk Marine."

I'm puzzled by this moaning over graduate schoolwork.  I've not done a dissertation yet, so maybe that will present a unique challenge, by so far teaching argument and interpretation, and doing my own coursework is fantastic. I sold a business and gave up a high level of income to pursue my heart's desire, and I am happy I am doing it.

Read books no one cares about?  Write a dissertation no one will read? 

Fuck that--I'm here to do real scholarship, and it's good work I find satisfying.




TeachMeToLive -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/22/2007 11:51:37 AM)

lol you are speaking straight out of my thoughts!




batshalom -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/22/2007 1:34:32 PM)

Whew. Thanks for the positive vibe, Faramir. I was beginning to get hives.




happypervert -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/22/2007 2:55:27 PM)

quote:

My big research project was for "jodies," the military work songs Marines sing while marching or running in formation. I looked at it as a formal of orally transmitted knowledge, using Walter Ong's (1982) description. I found jodies to be a discursive performance that helps Marines shape identity and a discursive practice that helps them "talk Marine."


That's an interesting spin on trotting along and singing:

I don't know but I've been told
Eskimo pussy is mighty cold!







SirW2004 -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/22/2007 6:17:34 PM)

Hey Tammy Jo,


Congratulations on your Ph.D. Now another colleague I can call Doc at the next BDSM conference.

Sir William




NotNutsReally -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/23/2007 8:24:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

quote:

ORIGINAL: BondageSlaveMN
I took a course in discourse analysis and found it rather enjoyable. Maybe my masochism reaches farther into my vanilla life than I thought...


Uuh-rah!

I'm in coursework for my Ph.D. in rhetoric, and just finished a discourse analysis seminar--one of the best things I've ever been inoved in, loved it from start to finish. My big research project was for "jodies," the military work songs Marines sing while marching or running in formation. I looked at it as a formal of orally transmitted knowledge, using Walter Ong's (1982) description. I found jodies to be a discursive performance that helps Marines shape identity and a discursive practice that helps them "talk Marine."

I'm puzzled by this moaning over graduate schoolwork. I've not done a dissertation yet, so maybe that will present a unique challenge, by so far teaching argument and interpretation, and doing my own coursework is fantastic. I sold a business and gave up a high level of income to pursue my heart's desire, and I am happy I am doing it.

Read books no one cares about? Write a dissertation no one will read?

Fuck that--I'm here to do real scholarship, and it's good work I find satisfying.


I feel I need to defend myself.

Well Faramir I'm with you that the work I am doing is satisfying and I share your sense that perhaps I have come off as whining about grad school work. I agree that the dissertation is a challenge to be met and bested. But your final call "I'm hear to do real scholarship" I think is a bit uncritical and really gets to the heart of my o.p. minus the humor with which I originally intended the o.p. to have. Let me elaborate.

Surely you, me and the other scholars who have contributed to this post are pursuing interesting research agendas and we all must love what we are doing or we wouldn't have pushed through all that hard work to get where we are. But there are two unfortunate situations we must address, first is the issue of post-modern scholarship and second is the issue of over specification.

In the first issue of postmodern scholarship we need to think critically about the very epistemology of our studies, especially those of us in the social sciences. Do we reject the positivist paradigm? or is progressive scholarship possible, and if it's possible is it desirable? These questions need to be answered by all of us. In the broad scheme of things I might ask you, What is the purpose of your study of Jodies. Is it your own personal satisfaction? Are you contributing to the larger scholarly literature and if so to what end? Probably you view your work (as do I) as both personally satisfying and contributing to the scholarly literature. But if positivism is imposible then really we are just working to satisfy ourselves, which in and of itself is unsatisfying. Furthermore, those of us in the social sciences must be acutely aware that our studies are largely sponsored by the state, and the state seeks to use our studies not just for scholarly understanding but also for enhancing social control. Is our blind pursuit of our research agenda, what you call "real scholarship" simply a way for us to separate ourselves from the very political business in which we are engaged? I don't know...

The second issue of over specification is less complicated. I was bellyaching about "reading books nobody cares about" and "writing a dissertation no one will read" to which you responded "Fuck that". I'll take 'fuck that' to mean shut up and stop bellyaching. But the fact is that in everyday life much of the scholarly literature is little more then a pedantic debate between academics whose careers are dependent on engaging in and maintaining those debates. Even if the real substance of debate has long fled the language of the debate, the debate must continue. Thus, the books no one cares about.

Moreover, the dissertation represents our entrance into the academic world it's more of an exercise then a scholarly work. If you want evidence of that look and see how many profs. assign their dissertations for their grad students to read v. one of their books or articles (I'm of course biased by my social science perspective, perhaps this isn't true in the natural sciences). Therefore the research we are doing as graduate students represents a challenge to be overcome, but do not contribution in a positivist fashion to the scholarly literature, and that is of course if we accept that it is even possible to be positivist. Thus, writing a dissertation no one will read.

Well that's a massive post and all the humor has been sucked out of the o.p. :( But I feel better.
Back to the dissertation!







dawntreader -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/23/2007 9:47:36 AM)

Just as i am recovering from  intense coursework myself, this thread has tired my brain again!LOL!!
 
Congrats to all with accomplishments and best wishes to all still in the grind[:)]
 
Now i am going to try to pursue an artistic challenge such as digital scrapebooking!
 
peace of education,
           j
       




thetammyjo -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/23/2007 9:50:54 AM)

If you separate all the unnecessary political BS I've seen and had to deal with, I loved graduate school but it was a different level of stress.

I'm a teacher first and foremost so teaching gave me lots of energy. My research has to be something I want to do or I won't do it.

However while still in graduate school there are many hoops left to jump through. Not saying there will not be hoops as a professor or for the rest of life, but they will be different ones.

No one should continue on in higher education unless there is something internally that pulls you cause you wont' get rich this way or terribly famous and your households will need to be understanding.

I'm starting to train Fox more now to take on my household work cause my first year of tenure track teaching will be intense and time consuming. But I'll also have the income so Fox can take on more domestic duties without interfering with our overall quality of life financially.

Anyhow that's another subject.




Lordandmaster -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/23/2007 11:44:22 AM)

If you really think NO ONE cares about your work, it's hard to justify what you're doing.  I think what you mean is that RELATIVELY FEW people care about your work.  Well, that's more of a commentary on the rest of the world than it is on your work, wouldn't you say?  Most of the world cares about a whole lot of bullshit that doesn't amount to very much.  Besides, there may be plenty of people who will care about your work--maybe they just aren't born yet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NotNutsReally

The second issue of over specification is less complicated. I was bellyaching about "reading books nobody cares about" and "writing a dissertation no one will read" to which you responded "Fuck that". I'll take 'fuck that' to mean shut up and stop bellyaching. But the fact is that in everyday life much of the scholarly literature is little more then a pedantic debate between academics whose careers are dependent on engaging in and maintaining those debates. Even if the real substance of debate has long fled the language of the debate, the debate must continue. Thus, the books no one cares about.




Dolce -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/23/2007 3:48:10 PM)

I'm in a similar boat. I've been attempting to start my Masters program 3 times now (gotta love it when schools put you on one year contracts, and then hire back the lady who wasn't near as successful as you, but she'll do whatever they tell her to), and some of the coursework is truly sadistic. Being a teacher (music), and given that my job in and of itself sucks away at least 8-12 hours a day (more during theatre productions), it's incredibly hard to find the /time/ to squeeze in classes, especially with most universities with my grad program being well over an hour away. Trying to maintain a job, plus find the time to write papers makes for one very exhausted (and social interaction deprived) sub!

I've been doing most of my grad work during summer sessions, and those are just nuts. I took a 1-week course this last summer, which involved being handed 150 pieces of music for score study, one of which we had to study for performance in front of the classmates and the professor (big pressure there), evening on-your-own rehearsal of the techniques taught in class (with the expectation that you can implement them on a whim by 8am the next morning), study of the video tapes of your performance from class, and add on the fact that our class put on a performance that Thursday with one of the other classes, so we had 5 pieces that we had to /sing/...I don't think I slept much that week. [:D]

Mad props to the PhD students...that will be me...someday...if I survive my 2-3 Masters programs. [:)]




PhoenixRed -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/23/2007 5:20:14 PM)

quote:

  Surely you, me and the other scholars who have contributed to this post are pursuing interesting research agendas and we all must love what we are doing or we wouldn't have pushed through all that hard work to get where we are. But there are two unfortunate situations we must address, first is the issue of post-modern scholarship and second is the issue of over specification.
This is absolutely true.  The journey may be trying but it is the end result which justfies the means. 

In the first issue of postmodern scholarship we need to think critically about the very epistemology of our studies, especially those of us in the social sciences. Do we reject the positivist paradigm? or is progressive scholarship possible, and if it's possible is it desirable? These questions need to be answered by all of us. In the broad scheme of things I might ask you, What is the purpose of your study of Jodies. Is it your own personal satisfaction? Are you contributing to the larger scholarly literature and if so to what end? Probably you view your work (as do I) as both personally satisfying and contributing to the scholarly literature. But if positivism is imposible then really we are just working to satisfy ourselves, which in and of itself is unsatisfying. Furthermore, those of us in the social sciences must be acutely aware that our studies are largely sponsored by the state, and the state seeks to use our studies not just for scholarly understanding but also for enhancing social control. Is our blind pursuit of our research agenda, what you call "real scholarship" simply a way for us to separate ourselves from the very political business in which we are engaged? I don't know...
I believe that many of us that go for advanced degrees do so to contribute to the larger knowledge base.  Part of attaining any advanced degree requires a knowledge of the literature in your chosen field.  Who has contributed what and how was this accomplished? Paradigm shifts take years to evolve and are necessarily fueled by the accumulated contributions of many. For example, many advances in medicine throughout history have been rooted in the work of scientists doing basic research, not the clinicians that administer them.  Not only the social sciences, but msot research endeavors are funded by government or state agencies.  Also, the results from experiments in the natural sciences also have implications for social policy.  For example, for the last 7 years I have studied how drugs of abuse (morphine) effect the progression of AIDS in the brain.  There are many things to be learned from this line of inquiry....long-term effects of morphine on a body that is altered by a disease state, how the brain deals with viral invasion, etc.  The social policy imlications are "should we as a society provide AIDS treatment drugs, which cost many thousands of dollars per person annually, to addicts that do not receive treatment if we find that continued use of such drugs exascerbates the course of the disease, and increses the costs of treatment of these patients?"  Of course that is a generalization, I just used it to put forth a point.   Politics exists in the academic power structure, in the decisions made regarding grant funding, etc.  They're unavoidable.

The second issue of over specification is less complicated. I was bellyaching about "reading books nobody cares about" and "writing a dissertation no one will read" to which you responded "Fuck that". I'll take 'fuck that' to mean shut up and stop bellyaching. But the fact is that in everyday life much of the scholarly literature is little more then a pedantic debate between academics whose careers are dependent on engaging in and maintaining those debates. Even if the real substance of debate has long fled the language of the debate, the debate must continue. Thus, the books no one cares about.
The books you read should be meaningful to you.  Writing a dissertation no one will read.....when I finally finished my dissertation, I sent a bound copy of it to my parents.  Their response was "wow you wrote a book".  I don't think they ever tried to read it, but they were proud of me for writing it.  In these days of electronic repositories of knowledge, dissertations are read by yothers in your field.  People do take notice.  You may even be able to have the lab/company/etc that accepts you for a postdoc/internship/residency consider your dissertation work as a line of inquiry for you post-graduate work.  It is true that many careers in academics are dependent on engaging and FURTHERING debates in their respective fields, but I don't believe all of it is pedantic.  Dissention between those of different theoretical standpoints is exactly what sometimes leads to the revalations and research that cause eventual paradigm shifts.  With the funding situation for research in general the way it is right now, it is hard to get grants...there is much more selectivity.  Novelty, ingenuity, and promise for advancement in the field are criteria that are very highly weighted in decisions about who gets money and who doesn't.

Moreover, the dissertation represents our entrance into the academic world it's more of an exercise then a scholarly work. If you want evidence of that look and see how many profs. assign their dissertations for their grad students to read v. one of their books or articles (I'm of course biased by my social science perspective, perhaps this isn't true in the natural sciences). Therefore the research we are doing as graduate students represents a challenge to be overcome, but do not contribution in a positivist fashion to the scholarly literature, and that is of course if we accept that it is even possible to be positivist. Thus, writing a dissertation no one will read.
I think that a large portion of whether or not a dissertation contributes to the scholarly literature is up to the student and his/her advisor and committee.  Some allow a lot of latitude in choosing a line of inquiry, some are very circumspect in the topics they'll allow.  Not every prof assgns the dissertation their grad students work on.  In my experience, most graduate theses are spinoffs of the lab's general research mission (but I was in the natural sciences, so I don't know how it works in your world).

Well that's a massive post and all the humor has been sucked out of the o.p. :( But I feel better.
And now I made it even bigger! lol  Glad you feel better though.  It does help to talk about it with those who have similar experiences.
Back to the dissertation!
Power to you!


Gee, I can't keep away from this topic! lol Good post, good questions.  I've put my comments into the editied original quote in blue.  I bolded the particular statement I was addressing.

One statement TammyJo made particularly hit home too....
quote:

  No one should continue on in higher education unless there is something internally that pulls you cause you wont' get rich this way or terribly famous and your households will need to be understanding.

It may be different for different fields, but no one I went to grad school with thought they were going to get rich doing research or teaching.  Famous...maybe, but probably not.  In time you will probably be considered an expert in your field though. Having a support network of friends, family and other grad students does help immensely in getting through it. Congrats for getting a tenure-track position TammyJo, it is more stable and there is a safety net.  I was a TA and an RA in grad school, but my career ended up being 100% research track, and I don't regret that a bit.  The only regret I've experienced lately is that, because of lack of national funding into the sciences and the difficulty in getting grants, my position was eliminated because I couldn't obtain my own (no safety net for soft money positions).   Life goes on.




thetammyjo -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/23/2007 5:30:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PhoenixRed

One statement TammyJo made particularly hit home too....
quote:

No one should continue on in higher education unless there is something internally that pulls you cause you wont' get rich this way or terribly famous and your households will need to be understanding.

It may be different for different fields, but no one I went to grad school with thought they were going to get rich doing research or teaching. Famous...maybe, but probably not. In time you will probably be considered an expert in your field though. Having a support network of friends, family and other grad students does help immensely in getting through it. Congrats for getting a tenure-track position TammyJo, it is more stable and there is a safety net. I was a TA and an RA in grad school, but my career ended up being 100% research track, and I don't regret that a bit. The only regret I've experienced lately is that, because of lack of national funding into the sciences and the difficulty in getting grants, my position was eliminated because I couldn't obtain my own (no safety net for soft money positions). Life goes on.


EEK!

I don't have a tenure track position, don't curse it for me, just 5 interviews.

Hopefully those will turn into on-campus visits and in turn to one or more offers. I'd like to have some choice beyond where I applied you see but I did apply carefully.




PhoenixRed -> RE: BDSM & the Ph.D. AHHHHHHHHH (12/23/2007 5:38:12 PM)

Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part. Good luck on those interviews!  Tenure-track jobs are getting harder to find, I earnestly hope you land one. 




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