CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (Full Version)

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BitaTruble -> CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 2:58:38 PM)

excerpt taken from 1998's article by jade entitled "Formal Training, Houses, And the Formal Lifestyle
The Facts Ma'am, just the FAQs
 

  1. Are these "houses" real or only a fantasy created by some fiction book?
    These houses are very real as are the people who are involved in them.   The history available dates their existence as far back as 2000 years and they most likely existed before then in a less structured manner.  It is a common practice for people with similar ideals and interests to join together to share their experiences and needs, so the existence of these groups should not come as any great surprise to those who are aware of human behavioral sciences.  You may not see a sign hanging over the doorway of the little white house on the corner of 3rd and Maple Street that says "Joe's D/s House and Grill," but they are there, hidden from view and doing very nicely in our everyday society.

    One of the things that has undermined the existence of these houses is the current fad D/s is undergoing.  It seems that every Tom, Dick and Harry has jumped on the band wagon and proclaimed themselves to be members of this or that house and boast of having their Masters degree in BDSM or D/s.  The truth is that most of them are charlatans who have found a way to give credence to their misuse of power and pitiful knowledge.   Their unfounded claims have planted more misunderstanding in this lifestyle than almost any other factor.  Be wise and have doubts about anyone who solicits you for enrollment in a "house" especially on the Internet or at scene clubs.  Most people who truly have roots in the old families are not about to proclaim it to the world.
  2. How can I find a house to join? 
    In a few words; You probably can't.  Most of the members of these groups have family connections or have had a personal recommendation given by someone in the group that got them invited inside.  You are not going to find them listed in the Yellow Pages of your phonebook or on a matchbook cover from the Holiday Inn.   Membership is carefully screened and most belong by nature of their birth, meaning it was passed on from father to son. 
  3. Why are these houses so secretive?
    Like any group that goes against the mainstream beliefs of the society within which it exits, there are carefully guarded standards about their establishment and being.   Five hundred years ago, such things were only considered bizarre and extreme but not criminal.  Today, with laws and concerns for human rights, such organizations fall into the jurisdiction of illegal activities or criminal acts.  It doesn't take an active imagination to consider the consequences for a group or individual discovered to be living a D/s lifestyle or to be practicing some of it's activities.  Remember that in many states it is still a crime to engage in oral or anal sex with your spouse.   Just think of what a group who advocates the practices found in BDSM would be facing.  Not a lovely thought, heh?  Then is it any wonder that you don't see billboards pointing out the way to "Joe's D/s House and Grill?"
 
*when cutting and pasting, the numbers were reassigned by my computer and I couldn't do a fix of them. What this thread calls question 1 is actually question 8 on the original post. Sorry about that but I've enclosed the link for any who would like to read the original document.
 



Missokyst -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 3:07:00 PM)

[sm=biggrin.gif]
That ancient houses thing always had me rolling in the aisles.  Ancient?  Secret?  Then how would there be any proof? 
"Ancient chinese secret huh?"  comes to mind.
Kyst



LadyLupineNYC -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 3:09:49 PM)

Greatest myth of d/s ever...is there a looooong history of bdsm and bdm-related activitie- yes.  This old guard/houses/ etc argument as no suport.  The idea of a Gnostic tradition of BDSM is a way to bolster the ‘why’ behind some ‘rituals’ as well as add the gloss of legitimacy. All classic myth-making patterns.  At the end of the day- we are responsible for making our OWN meaning in our lives- we shouldn’t have to rely on psydo histories for that.    

Having said that-there is some interesting info and reserch starting at the leather archives in Chicago now being set up.   



spanklette -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 3:35:28 PM)

The closest I have ever come to any legitimate "house" is my former Master's "Gentlemen's Club". They would sit around smoke cigars, drink brandy, and share submissives/bottoms. Each and every one of the men there were all invited and you had to attend more than once to take part in anything other than the cigars or brandy. It was a good time...but they never gave it more historical import than it deserved. Looking back, I can see that they all had a lot in common...polyamorous, middle age, well-to-do, and a dislike of loud music were a few of the driving commonalities. But, it was just a club like anything else, and they never pretended otherwise.
 
I always assumed that the "houses" thing came from "The Story of O"...a book I've never particularly cared for. The "houses" are a way of being an elitist and attribute BDSM activity some sort of ancient history. Just the mention of them brings up a picture of the movie "Eyes Wide Shut".
 
You know, I always thought that the "Ancient Houses" was also a nod to the Free Masons. Of course, that could be my imagination and everything else always attributed to the Free Masons.
 
This is one of the only things that I really hate about CR...the whole "house" thing is a big pile of...well, you know.[:D]



dcnovice -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 3:37:48 PM)

quote:

How can I find a house to join? 


Doesn't the Sorting Hat assign you to one?



AnimusRex -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 4:24:27 PM)

Yes, Jade assues us they are VERY REAL, although so super duper secret ordinary mortals like us are unable even to verify the existance of them, much less join one...and Jade knows this for a fact, because, um, because.....? And she helpfully provides no names, no places not so much as a shred of evidence to support this claim, other than her firm conviction.

I have always felt this was such a delicous Eyes Wide Shut/ Story of O fantasy, that it stays alive, just because we wish so badly it did exist..not to mention there IS a very long and ancient tradition of supposed "secret" societies that did all sorts of secret wicked yummy kinky things...
The Knights Templars were destroyed by the Church for supposedly having wicked satanic orgies...
The Free Masons were shunned for supposedly having wicked satanic orgies..
The Elders of Zion, The Vatican, The Mormons, The Trilateral Commission, and I think even the San Diego Board of Realtors have all been accused of having wicked...well you know.
But so far, all My attempts to join such a society and take part in said yummy kinky dark things have been rebuffed. I did join a local dungeon club, but alas, I did not have to sign an oath in blood.

May the search continue!



MadRabbit -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 4:47:40 PM)

FR

http://www.bdsmdebunkingthemyths.com/Welcome.html

Myth Busters had a few opinions on this and particularly her article in Blatant Lies and Suspicious Intent.

Of course, it's just opinions and their assurance that the idea of Ancient Houses is not true. They don't actually provide any arguments like they do with other subjects.

I imagine it would be hard to provide arguments though to something, to my knowledge, has absolutely ZERO historical evidence of ever existing.

It would have been nice if Jade had provided some of her research and evidence she used to "state the facts", but amazingly enough I don't see a credits list.

As opposed to MythBusters which provides endless numbers of resources for their facts, written by well known figures who have a strong reputation of actually being part of the things they commented on.

While Castlerealm might have a few good essays, it's garbage like this that is intellectually dishonest and lacking any integrity.




KatyLied -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 4:54:09 PM)

I prefer crappydom's dissertation on the ancient houses.  But I'm too lazy to search.



juliaoceania -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 4:55:57 PM)

I remember when I first read Castle Realm how Jade had an essay about how she was trained in a "family"... she was trained before she ever submitted to anyone supposedly.... does anyone else remember that essay?



MadRabbit -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 5:08:42 PM)

FR

But hey...CastleRealm is all just romance and innocence and light BDSM, right?

Everyone who has a beef with it is just bitter and lonely and jaded, and not a little annoyed by the completely unsubstantiated and unsupported misinformation presented on something claiming to be an "educational source" for newbies.

I guess when people say people should be more "open-minded" toward Castle Realm that they should let their brains fall out of their head.







dcnovice -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 5:12:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I prefer crappydom's dissertation on the ancient houses.  But I'm too lazy to search.


Is this it?



ownedgirlie -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 6:10:46 PM)

Amazing.  I never really knew what the big beef was with CR.  I only perused it a bit when I was a wee young'n in the "lifestyle."  What you posted is humorous, to say the least.  Sounds like chatroom submission, which a lot of people are into, but now I am understanding why so many roll their eyes any time the name CastleRealm is brought up.

I talked to a slave about a year & a half ago, who tried to impress Mr. Wonderful and I by saying she was born into slavery and taught the ancient European Old Guard Gorean ways.  I said, "Come again?" and asked her a bit about it and that was the last we saw of her. 



KatyLied -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 6:23:56 PM)

Yep, that's what I'm talking about.



slaveluci -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 6:26:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

FR

But hey...CastleRealm is all just romance and innocence and light BDSM, right?

Everyone who has a beef with it is just bitter and lonely and jaded, and not a little annoyed by the completely unsubstantiated and unsupported misinformation presented on something claiming to be an "educational source" for newbies.

I guess when people say people should be more "open-minded" toward Castle Realm that they should let their brains fall out of their head.





Come on, Mad Rabbit.  Ouch.  Your twisting what I said so badly it hurts[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m28.gif[/image].  I never said "everyone who has a beef with it is just bitter and lonely and jaded."  You know I did not say that.  I don't recall anyone else saying that.  What I said boiled down to this:  "OFTENtimes people who slam romanticism aren't currently experiencing it in their own lives.  Thus sites they consider too lite and romantic (like CR) sicken them."  

I don't support "completely unsubstantiated and unsupported misinformation" in any context, least of all in your response here insinuating that something was said that was not.  I also never indicated the site was "all just romance and innocence and light BDSM."  I do think some of the people bashing it indicated that's how they saw it.  In addition, I'm positive I never indicated it was an "educational source for newbies."  I hate the word "newbie" and I certainly don't see the group called "newbies" by others as all being so lacking in judgment and sense that they are all so easily lead or mislead by any one site. 

I don't think either one of us are apt to be the type to let our brains fall out.  But I question how your brain perceived what you read as being what you said above.  I didn't say that at all.  I may be assuming you were aiming that in my direction but since I actually wrote the words "lonely, bitter, and jaded," I don't think I'm in error here.  If you really think that's what I meant, I'm here to assure you that it in no way was...................luci



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 6:31:36 PM)

Julia- we've got a handful posting on the boards now who would assert that about themselves as well

I think the idea that there are solid families/houses which have been constantly and traditionally practicing what we Americans consider bdsm today is pretty fat fetched.   Most Americans don't have any traditions going back more than a few generations at all- it's pretty impressive if you're still a Daughter of the Revolution.

But it's not at all hard to believe there have always been kinky people who grouped themselves and enjoyed their fun as a community and called it a family/house- even in times of severe opression (perhaps even more so at those tiems).



MadRabbit -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 6:31:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

FR

But hey...CastleRealm is all just romance and innocence and light BDSM, right?

Everyone who has a beef with it is just bitter and lonely and jaded, and not a little annoyed by the completely unsubstantiated and unsupported misinformation presented on something claiming to be an "educational source" for newbies.

I guess when people say people should be more "open-minded" toward Castle Realm that they should let their brains fall out of their head.





Come on, Mad Rabbit.  Ouch.  Your twisting what I said so badly it hurts[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m28.gif[/image].  I never said "everyone who has a beef with it is just bitter and lonely and jaded."  You know I did not say that.  I don't recall anyone else saying that.  What I said boiled down to this:  "OFTENtimes people who slam romanticism aren't currently experiencing it in their own lives.  Thus sites they consider too lite and romantic (like CR) sicken them."  

I don't support "completely unsubstantiated and unsupported misinformation" in any context, least of all in your response here insinuating that something was said that was not.  I also never indicated the site was "all just romance and innocence and light BDSM."  I do think some of the people bashing it indicated that's how they saw it.  In addition, I'm positive I never indicated it was an "educational source for newbies."  I hate the word "newbie" and I certainly don't see the group called "newbies" by others as all being so lacking in judgment and sense that they are all so easily lead or mislead by any one site. 

I don't think either one of us are apt to be the type to let our brains fall out.  But I question how your brain perceived what you read as being what you said above.  I didn't say that at all.  I may be assuming you were aiming that in my direction but since I actually wrote the words "lonely, bitter, and jaded," I don't think I'm in error here.  If you really think that's what I meant, I'm here to assure you that it in no way was...................luci


No, I don't think that is what you meant at all which is why I didn't mention you by name. I am sure it looks like I am twisting your words, but that isn't my intentions or motivations. I am glad you posted so I can clarify that I am not trying to pick on anyone and certainly not you.

I am using those words to drive home an alternative viewpoint as to why people have an issue with CastleRealms. This is the reason why I asked for this essay to be posted for debate by people who had the links. The site didn't simply have fluffy romance or light BDSM, but things that were, in the mildest words, utter crap.



happypervert -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 6:41:27 PM)

quote:

These houses are very real as are the people who are involved in them. The history available dates their existence as far back as 2000 years and they most likely existed before then in a less structured manner.


This is good stuff! I hope the next post from the annals of Castle Realm establishes the existence of fairies, ogres and dragons (beyond those on Komodo) . . . and of course, the planet gor.



juliaoceania -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 6:41:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Julia- we've got a handful posting on the boards now who would assert that about themselves as well

I think the idea that there are solid families/houses which have been constantly and traditionally practicing what we Americans consider bdsm today is pretty fat fetched.   Most Americans don't have any traditions going back more than a few generations at all- it's pretty impressive if you're still a Daughter of the Revolution.

But it's not at all hard to believe there have always been kinky people who grouped themselves and enjoyed their fun as a community and called it a family/house- even in times of severe opression (perhaps even more so at those tiems).


I just remember reading Jade's history as a newbie and I remembered the page that celeste makes reference to, and I have went through chats where Castle Realm was the major site quoted.  I will also say when I read Jade as a novice I wondered if that sort of "training" was expected from novice submissives... although I was assured by the dominant I was seeing it was not, and that I pleased him because of my intellect and conversational abilities... and not everyone wanted a "slave trained in formal protocol".

There were a lot of newbies that never had a dominant that told them that though.



laurell3 -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 6:42:36 PM)

Again, I'm not getting into the merits or lack thereof of CR.  It is conceivable that there are groups have some history and that groups exist that don't hold themselves out to the public and don't invite just anyone to join.  Hell who hasn't thought at times there has to be a way to be involved without dealing with all the trolls and garbage?   I'm really kind of doubting the 2000 years thing however.



slaveluci -> RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training (12/23/2007 6:45:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
No, I don't think that is what you meant at all which is why I didn't mention you by name. I am sure it looks like I am twisting your words, but that isn't my intentions or motivations. I am glad you posted so I can clarify that I am not trying to pick on anyone and certainly not you

Whew.  I certainly hope that wasn't how it was perceived.  Especially by you who I have often praised for your wisdom[;)].
quote:

I am using those words to drive home an alternative viewpoint as to why people have an issue with CastleRealms. This is the reason why I asked for this essay to be posted for debate by people who had the links. The site didn't simply have fluffy romance or light BDSM, but things that were, in the mildest words, utter crap

They did have SOME "utter crap," but I maintain that the site in it's entirety was not COMPLETE crap.  Maybe only partial but I do respect the right of others to have enjoyed it and garnered some reliable info from it.  Blatant misinformation on some topics aside, it wasn't all bad.  Thanks for clarifying[:)]..............luci 



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