RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (Full Version)

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Statepalace -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 3:16:18 PM)

While I wouldn't be horrified with an order to vote for a particular candidate, I would explain to Him why I couldn't accept such an order. I feel it violates the entire "1 vote per person" concept of a democratic election.

In addition, I would refuse any command to do something that violated my core ethics. This includes stomping kittens to death, buying non-organic milk, voting for a person that I consider a monster in a human suit, and (almost) anything that will get me arrested. That last one has some wiggle room for skinny dipping and public displays of, um, affection ;)

For those that say "slaves obey orders no matter what", well people in the military are expected to obey orders as well. They are also expected to NOT obey if the order is something like "deliberately kill all the infants". The "just following orders" excuse does not work there, and it wouldn't work for me in terms of voting for someone that I felt would wreak havoc on my country. 

Let's say your Dom controls what you eat, and sets a specific diet. You are a dietitian by profession. Your Dom tells you to instruct your clients to eat this same diet. That is overstepping boundaries, even though they have control of you. You do not have the right to give them control of others without their consent.

I believe it comes down to this - He has the right to control ME. By voting for a candidate, I am choosing a person that will (one hopes) make laws that will touch the lives of OTHERS. This makes telling me how to vote an order outside the realm of His authority. These "others" (citizens) have given each of us 1 vote. To change that system (give Him 2 by giving Him mine to control) without the consent of the parties involved would be, in my opinion, wrong.





camille65 -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 3:18:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: joshuadforbes


by the by....consider this one of the most fundamental rules in bdsm is that the slave has the right to choose who leads her...is voting any different


It's absolutely different for me. I already voted for Himself. He's the man in office, the head honcho, the decision maker. If he wants someone specific to lead this country, which in turn may effect me, I have no problems at all with obeying his decision to cast a ballot for a particular person. I trust him with my life, my body, my mind, my heart ... but I'm not supposed to trust him with my vote?

You said that if you find a candidate unethical or without morals, you would not vote for them.. yet you would let your submissive or slave vote for them? I'm curious as to why you would allow that to happen?

No offense, I'm just nosy because I don't understand that thinking.

Celeste


 On the bit that I bolded, that is what I was trying to get across. If R thinks that I am being naive or not seeing something clearly, if he thinks that I am voting in the wrong direction he will tell me to research it then give to him what I have learned. That is how he gets me to 'vote as he tells me to'. He leads me to it instead of issuing a blank directiveThanks Celeste, once again you clarified things in my head!



sambamanslilgirl -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 3:20:16 PM)

what does my submission mean to them? 

it means they accept me as i am - opposing political views and all ...it means giving myself and my talents/achievements/success/opinionated mind etc (sans anything concerning my UMs, what i watch on tv, etc) as well as with their guidance improving myself to better me.

to answer your questions - no they don't want the option of picking out my clothes or telling me what i can or not watch on tv ...or what i should eat for dinner.  Daddy prefers that i dress sexy IF i want to but it's my choice if i want to wear jeans today or shorts tomorrow. we don't have total power exchange - it's more mutual and equal between us.



celticlord2112 -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 3:22:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RoughFN

Extrapolating, how many of the slaves here would get really pissed off if their master ordered them to do something outside of a bdsm context like this? And, likewise, how much of a contradiction is this compared to him making all of the decisions?

Dwelling on this example, I'm not claiming that you can't have your own opinions, or even potentially argue with him to prove him wrong (or at least that you should be able to vote your own way); those extras are points for your own relationship. The end of the day though, if he makes the decision, exerting the claim that you've granted him all power in your life, why would you protest?



This yet another variation on the seeming endless debates about limits. Whether the focus is voting or violet wands, limits are things that are negotiated among individuals--and renegotiated periodically if the relationship is dynamic and evolving.

People protest when one party or the other steps outside of the defined limits--that is the nature of people.



hisannabelle -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 3:27:49 PM)

greetings celticlord,

makes sense - except what i don't understand is that if we put a limit on everything that we don't like or that goes against our preferences, it looks an awful lot like a vanilla relationship that just happens to be negotiated, not like submission. i'm not saying it should be all about doing things against our will, or anything like that, but if the relationship is still about asserting one's own preferences...there's still an equal balance of power.

respectfully,
annabelle.



BitaTruble -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 3:28:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Statepalace


I believe it comes down to this - He has the right to control ME. By voting for a candidate, I am choosing a person that will (one hopes) make laws that will touch the lives of OTHERS. This makes telling me how to vote an order outside the realm of His authority. These "others" (citizens) have given each of us 1 vote. To change that system (give Him 2 by giving Him mine to control) without the consent of the parties involved would be, in my opinion, wrong.





Now, this, is an excellent argument! Well done. I haven't changed my mind because I'm only about 'mostly' consentual, but if I had been on the fence, I think this would have pushed me over to the side.

Celeste



Kalista07 -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 3:28:54 PM)

*i'm apparently too sick today to just walk away from the computer*

He and i did have this discussion before we entered our relationship...The reason was that this had been a firmly held belief of someone i had been talking to previously.....Honestly,  i don't even remember how it came out in the end...What i do remember is this: if i trust Him with my life, with my heart, with my soul, with my all..................then why wouldn't i trust Him to make a good decision regarding who my elected official should be........

Perhaps it's just all this cold medicine i've taken today, but this doesn't really seem like rocket science....Am i out there???



takenbyjohnr07 -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 3:35:04 PM)

Same here. Also, in my opinion no "real" Dominant would ask that of anyone. It's foolish to me.



camille65 -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 3:38:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07

Same here. Also, in my opinion no "real" Dominant would ask that of anyone. It's foolish to me.
 I totally disagree with your statement that no real dominant would ask that of anyone. Of course a real dominant would ask that if it were a part of their balance in the relationship. How on earth does that make them less real? I'm actually a bit offended by that blatent generalization.There are doms that do things you won't agree with, so that is why they are not your doms.It in no way means they are not a dominant.



DiurnalVampire -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 3:40:46 PM)

If I had nothing better to do than nitpick about what my boys did down to their voting preference... I would worry more about myself than I would about who the candidates were. I prefer my boys ave their own thougths and opinions and keep a reasonable ability to do things on their own without micromanagement. I consider  decisions like that to me micromanagement. That ranks with the ability to pay your own bills, and choose your own outfits. Do I make those decisions on occasion... yes.  But definately not all the time. I have better things to worry about.

DV



xBullx -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 3:43:31 PM)

Isn't it amazing how words of manipulation have a scent all to their own......? No "real" dominant???? Are you an expert on all the various variety of dominants?...it sounds as though someone has been spared the whip a few to many times...

Just watching and stuff,

Bull

quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07

Same here. Also, in my opinion no "real" Dominant would ask that of anyone. It's foolish to me.



AquaticSub -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 3:44:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Statepalace

I believe it comes down to this - He has the right to control ME. By voting for a candidate, I am choosing a person that will (one hopes) make laws that will touch the lives of OTHERS. This makes telling me how to vote an order outside the realm of His authority. These "others" (citizens) have given each of us 1 vote. To change that system (give Him 2 by giving Him mine to control) without the consent of the parties involved would be, in my opinion, wrong.



Thanks for bringing that up. That is also a huge sticking point for me when it comes to ordering someone who to vote for.



takenbyjohnr07 -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 3:49:43 PM)

A true Dominant never makes a sub do something that they are totally against such as a hard limit. They discuss it and the decision that is made is respected.



slavegirljoy -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 3:50:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07
: if i trust Him with my life, with my heart, with my soul, with my all..................then why wouldn't i trust Him to make a good decision regarding who my elected official should be........

You took the words right out of my mouth (or keyboard)!!!  This is how i feel about every decision that my Master makes for me.
 
Not only that but, i don't choose to spend my time, energy, emotions, etc. with a man who has religious beliefs that are vastly different from my own or who has morals or personal ethics that are vastly different from my own or who has political views that are vastly different from my own or who has musical tastes that are vastly different from my own, and so on. 
 
This Master/slave relationship that i am in wasn't forced on me.  i made the choice to enter into it and that was only after making certain that the Man i was agreeing to belong to was someone i could get along with and feel good about serving.  Otherwise, i would have just kept on looking.  He is also a Man who respects the law of the land and the Constitution and has no reason to 'force' me to vote any way other than what my good conscience dictates.
 
This topic, though, to me, illustrates why hypotheticals are so pointless.  Why not just ask, "Has anyone submissive or slave ever been ordered by their Dominant or Master to vote a certain way?  And, if so, did they refuse or obey?  Why or why not?"  What's wrong with asking direct questions?

quote:

Perhaps it's just all this cold medicine i've taken today, but this doesn't really seem like rocket science....Am i out there???

Hope the meds are working and you're feeling better soon.
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David



CalifChick -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 3:53:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Statepalace

While I wouldn't be horrified with an order to vote for a particular candidate, I would explain to Him why I couldn't accept such an order. I feel it violates the entire "1 vote per person" concept of a democratic election.

<lots of excellent stuff snipped>


State... beautifully said.  All of it. 

Cali



AquaticSub -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 3:54:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07

A true Dominant never makes a sub do something that they are totally against such as a hard limit. They discuss it and the decision that is made is respected.


Right but as we can clearly see here, there are plenty of subs who don't have a problem with it. Hence your first statement, that no "real" dominant would ask, seems invalid to me.



CalifChick -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 3:55:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07

A true Dominant never makes a sub do something that they are totally against such as a hard limit. They discuss it and the decision that is made is respected.


Jeeezus Keeerist.  Are we really going to have the ONE TWUE WAY thing AGAIN???  Come back and tell us all about it when you actually move in with the man.

Cali



Jeffff -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 4:00:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07

A true Dominant never makes a sub do something that they are totally against such as a hard limit. They discuss it and the decision that is made is respected.


you have been on these boards long enough to realize just how silly that looks

Jeff




lilacs -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 4:00:45 PM)

There is something in the very core of me that doesn't feel right in the concept of being ordered to vote for a specific candidate.  I'm not sure exactly what about it that makes it feel so wrong for me, but it is obvious to me that if that was a requirement of my dominant (I can never imagine him doing that - he's really not into that sort of power control) we would have some problems.  I think that him ordering me to vote for someone rather than letting me decide who I wanted to vote for sort of seems to indicate that he doesn't think I'm capable of making such a decision.  From everything he has always said, he does respect my intellect and judgement, so this would just fly in the face of that for me...



slavegirljoy -> RE: I'm completely devoted, but... (1/8/2008 4:03:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07

A true Dominant never makes a sub do something that they are totally against such as a hard limit. They discuss it and the decision that is made is respected.

Maybe, your 'true Dominant' would never make a sub do something that they are totally against and he discusses it with her, not everyone's 'true Dominant' does.  There are plenty of 'true Dominants' who don't discuss things with their submissive and they do tell them to do things that they are totally against.  That sometimes can mean the end of the relationship but, not always.  Some submissives will do anything their Dominant tells them to do, whether they like it or not.  That doesn't make their Dominant any less 'true', to them, than your Dominant is to you.
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David



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