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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 5:34:11 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Well, don't forget that half of them might not even know why they're doing it.  "Because I can" is probably the most honest answer you'd ever get out of them.

I'm not saying rape ISN'T about power, just that it's not SOLELY about power.  Men do all kinds of things to exert power, and not all of them involve sex acts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

It would seem to me that only a rapist knows his motivation.  It's also pretty logical to think that that motivation is different for each and every rapist.  It would be a culmination of his life experiences.  I'm sure some are driven by power, some by sex, and some by both.  Does it really matter...same end result.

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 5:35:37 PM   
tigerstyle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: tigerstyle
I still dispute your first point. Let me put it in BDSM terms. What if Joe Rapo's "kink" happens to be....not rape play, not furry floggers....but actual rape. What if he "gets off" on taking power away from people, sexually.

I guess some people would just want to deny that we are talking about "sex" in such a case.



Then his primary goal is about power, not sex.

And I disagree with you on another point, it's not sex - it's rape. It is still intercourse but it's a completely different thing.

Edited for typo and better word choice.

What's the difference?

It's not intercourse to the victim, but if the perpetrator shows all the physical signs of getting off, I'm going to call a spade a spade.

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 5:36:59 PM   
Leatherist


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Let's see,wrestle her down tie her up-cut out the seat of her pants and force fuck her asshole.

And I don't go to jail. I get asked do do it again.

Works for me.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 5:38:20 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tigerstyle

What's the difference?

It's not intercourse to the victim, but if the perpetrator shows all the physical signs of getting off, I'm going to call a spade a spade.



Intercourse is penis/dildo goes in vagina/ass/etc. It either is or it isn't. I've been raped, someone had intercourse with me against my will. But I didn't have sex - I was raped. He didn't have sex with me - he raped me.

Sex and rape, at least to me and the people I've discussed this with, are completely different concepts.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 5:39:42 PM   
Aileen1968


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I agree completely.  To say that someone's urges are based soley on one thing is unrealistic.  Many things influence people that they are aware and unaware of.  I didn't mean to imply that people sit around and contemplate why they've done things.  Most just react to situations that they fnd themselves in with out examining their motivations.   

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 5:42:45 PM   
slavegirljoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

That article is more than thirty years old, and it advanced precisely the mainstream viewpoint that some of us here don't accept.  (In fact, it was largely responsible for ESTABLISHING that viewpoint.)

Go to any rape crisis center and they will say the same thing today.
 
From the DC Rape Crisis Center(http://www.dcrcc.org/myths.htm)
 
Myths about Rape
 
Myth:  “Rape is not a big deal; it is only sex.”
Fact:  Rape is a big deal.  It is a crime of dominance and control using sex to express power and anger.  Sex is between two consenting partners, while rape is an aggressive act using sex as a weapon.  To be raped is to be violated and stripped of control and self-determination.

Myth:  “Men rape because they need sex.”
Fact:  Men do not rape because they need a sexual partner.  Men rape in order to humiliate and dominate a woman.  In fact, 75% of men who rape are either married or have regular sexual partners.

Myth:  “Men who rape other men are gay.”
Fact: Rape is an act of control and domination, whether the chosen victim is male or female.  Rape is not a sexual act and it does not relate to sexual orientation.
 slave joy
Owned property of Master David








 

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 5:43:49 PM   
Aileen1968


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: tigerstyle

What's the difference?

It's not intercourse to the victim, but if the perpetrator shows all the physical signs of getting off, I'm going to call a spade a spade.



Intercourse is penis/dildo goes in vagina/ass/etc. It either is or it isn't. I've been raped, someone had intercourse with me against my will. But I didn't have sex - I was raped. He didn't have sex with me - he raped me.

Sex and rape, at least to me and the people I've discussed this with, are completely different concepts.


You can't assume that he didn't view it as sex but as rape.  Most likely he did view it as sex especially if he came.  I don't mean to sound harsh or that I empathize in any way with a rapist.  I just fall into the group that thinks that it very well must be somewhat sexual to a rapist.

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 5:46:10 PM   
tigerstyle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: tigerstyle

What's the difference?

It's not intercourse to the victim, but if the perpetrator shows all the physical signs of getting off, I'm going to call a spade a spade.



Intercourse is penis/dildo goes in vagina/ass/etc. It either is or it isn't. I've been raped, someone had intercourse with me against my will. But I didn't have sex - I was raped. He didn't have sex with me - he raped me.

Sex and rape, at least to me and the people I've discussed this with, are completely different concepts.


I'm sorry that you were raped and I hope that the perpetrator paid the price.

You seem to define sex as "something we do consensually". By that definition, you are, of course, correct. What bugs me is the claim that "As we all know (I think it's this preamble that really sticks in my craw)...rape is about power, not sex". I don 't have anything but a sloppy working definition of sex---in this place, if I say it's about genital stimulation and ejaculation, then someone is going to slap me down by telling me about how they get off on being encased in concrete, or by having someone snort lines of liquid nitrogen off of their ass cheeks---but I know it when I see it.



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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 5:46:18 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

You can't assume that he didn't view it as sex but as rape.  Most likely he did view it as sex especially if he came.  I don't mean to sound harsh or that I empathize in any way with a rapist.  I just fall into the group that thinks that it very well must be somewhat sexual to a rapist.


I wasn't trying to say that it isn't somewhat sexual or arousing. I just don't think it's sex. For me, saying that he viewed it as sex would be one of those rare situations where the guy didn't realize the woman didn't want it and that she was considering it rape.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 5:51:11 PM   
AquaticSub


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My apologies, I have not been raped and I did not mean to imply that. That was a mistake on my part. I was simply speaking in terms of "This happens, X, Y, Z" and should have been clearer.

You are right - it is very hard to define sex. Part of my sexuality textbook was about how hard it is to define that term! But for me, it does imply consent which makes it drastically different than rape. And, of course, we really don't know what motivates rapists, but I have a hard time believing that just getting sex is a large factor. Otherwise I think there would be a lot more rapes.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to tigerstyle)
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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 5:54:57 PM   
tigerstyle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

That article is more than thirty years old, and it advanced precisely the mainstream viewpoint that some of us here don't accept.  (In fact, it was largely responsible for ESTABLISHING that viewpoint.)

Go to any rape crisis center and they will say the same thing today.
 
From the DC Rape Crisis Center(http://www.dcrcc.org/myths.htm)
 
Myths about Rape
 
Myth:  “Rape is not a big deal; it is only sex.”
Fact:  Rape is a big deal.  It is a crime of dominance and control using sex to express power and anger.  Sex is between two consenting partners, while rape is an aggressive act using sex as a weapon.  To be raped is to be violated and stripped of control and self-determination.

Myth:  “Men rape because they need sex.”
Fact:  Men do not rape because they need a sexual partner.  Men rape in order to humiliate and dominate a woman.  In fact, 75% of men who rape are either married or have regular sexual partners.

Myth:  “Men who rape other men are gay.”
Fact: Rape is an act of control and domination, whether the chosen victim is male or female.  Rape is not a sexual act and it does not relate to sexual orientation.
 slave joy
Owned property of Master David








 


Rape crisis centers, for all their good work--and GOd Bless 'em--are far from ideologically free in this debate.

The myth /fact about male/male rape caught my eye. As far as I can tell, they are claiming that, since rape has nothing to do with sex or sexual orientation, if a straight man rapes a male, the victim is home free! No sex has happened! I'd be worried about the gay rapists, though.

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 6:21:13 PM   
domiguy


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I am really awful at this kind of shit....Rape play? My mind would never allow me to actually grasp the situation.....

Here comes big bad domirapeguy to rape you!.....Why aren't you frightened? Because it can't and never will be the same thing...Not even close, not by a long shot. As I rip off subsusies' clothes I would probably be thinking that I hope she didn't pay to much for that ugly shirt. Wow! this rape shit feels so much different then the previous fifty times that I fucked you. Okay, now that I'm done raping you give me a back rub and let's order in some sushi or a pizza. You cunt.

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 6:29:24 PM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy
From the DC Rape Crisis Center(http://www.dcrcc.org/myths.htm)
 
Myths about Rape
 
Myth:  “Rape is not a big deal; it is only sex.”
Fact:  Rape is a big deal.  It is a crime of dominance and control using sex to express power and anger.  Sex is between two consenting partners, while rape is an aggressive act using sex as a weapon.  To be raped is to be violated and stripped of control and self-determination.

Myth:  “Men rape because they need sex.”
Fact:  Men do not rape because they need a sexual partner.  Men rape in order to humiliate and dominate a woman.  In fact, 75% of men who rape are either married or have regular sexual partners.

Myth:  “Men who rape other men are gay.”
Fact: Rape is an act of control and domination, whether the chosen victim is male or female.  Rape is not a sexual act and it does not relate to sexual orientation.
 slave joy
Owned property of Master David
 


It has been in my experience that these statistics given here hit fairly close to the mark. I do believe that there is a sexual component to rape but it is not the driving force. In all of my years of working closely with the subject matter I can't say that I have ever seen the statistics lean heavy on the side of sexual desire. The motivating factor is not libido. The reference to 75% percent of rapists being either partnered or having a sexual partner available is pretty accurate. If it were a simple libido issue, those partners would surely suffice. But the rapist isn't being motivated by a sexual need, he is being motivated by a need to dominate, humiliate and have power over another. Certainly sex is an underlying component. It is the tool he uses to accomplish his goal.
    After my rape it became my life's calling to do what I could to figure out the reasons, to do whatever I could to bring it to a halt. I worked with hundreds of survivors. I worked with hundreds of perpetrators. I talked to them, I studied them and I questioned those who were willing to speak. I accompanied survivors to meet with groups of perpetrators in an attempt to find closure for them. All survivors have the same question they want answered. Why? And why me? Not once, not one single time did I hear any of them answer that it was because they were horny and couldn't get laid. Not once. The most common answer was because they "needed to control, to humiliate, to terrify and to hurt their victim". Their partners couldn't fill that need, so they went in search of someone vulnerable. They watched, they stalked, they CHOSE their victim based upon their vulnerability or unawareness of their surroundings.
    Many rape victims suffer the worst of their physical injuries AFTER the sexual act is completed, not before. I know that was true in my own case, it was not until after they were through that the worst of the beating came.
    I don't deny that sex is a motivating factor, but generally it's not about a hot body or a nice rack that leaves them with a burning desire. It's the vulnerability of the victim and the opportunity to take control, weild their power, see the fear and inflict emotional and physical pain that makes their dick stiff.
   

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 6:36:19 PM   
tigerstyle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

If it were a simple libido issue, those partners would surely suffice.
  


I'm sure we could also say the same thing about vanilla vs bdsm sex. What do you need to get tied up and whipped by some chick in leather for??? You have a wife at home.

The last line of your post sums it up though. "make their dick stiff". Some people get stiff dicks in ways that make the rest of us very uncomfortable.

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 7:31:47 PM   
junecleaver


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I have had rape fantasies before I even really understood what sex was.  I've always wondered how those fantasies would affect the reality of being raped.  When I hear real life rape stories, it turns me on...a lot and I always feel really guilty as the person was obviously traumatized by what happened.

Before I understood that I could have 'play rape,' I put myself in many situations where rape was possible and then did my best to provoke their 'inner rapist.'  I dated men whose big fantasy was deflowering virgins.  I would mercilessly tease them, leave them blue-balled, go off into the middle of nowhere with men I barely knew, tell them I'd never have sex with them, rub up against them, laugh at them, anything I could do to make them feel powerless and want to take my power.  There were times where I thought it was so close to happening, where they had thrown me down and were literally on the edge of fucking me against my will, but no one ever went through with it.  I did all of that without really thinking about it, because it was dangerous and gave me a huge adrenaline rush.  Looking back. I know it was stupid and irresponsible and I know that had it happened it would have been traumatizing.  I'm not even sure if I had a reason for behaving that way aside from teen angst and self-destruction.  I think because I never got burned, I secretly feel like real rape would probably turn me on too.  But I would say, 'No, absolutely not.  Rape is wrong.'  But even play rape is far more about power than it is sex for me.

Anyway, I look forward to participating in that kind of play with my Dominant who is luckily into play rape and doesn't need my permission to do anything.  Yay.




_____________________________


"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 7:56:04 PM   
Muttling


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I see a LOT of discussions on multiple sides of the topic here.


I think it would be good if we seperate things from the fantasy of rape and the crime of rape.   Regardless of sex, they are VERY different things.   Fantasy rape is a healthy extension of safe, sane, and consensual play.   The crime of rape is a brutal invasion of one's personal being.

Very different things my friends.   I respect all who say that "rape is NOT something I can consent to."  I also respect those who say, "I like several aspects of consensual rape."  


The REAL issue here is knowing your limits and the limits of your partner.  Do NOT even consider crossing those limits unless your partner asks you to step one toe over the line.  When your partner asks you to step one toe over, do so but do it with great caution as edge play is NOT about ignoring the limits.

(Mutt steps off his soap box)

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 8:00:01 PM   
sexyred1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

Thank you, to the women who have responded so far.  Your answers have been very interesting and insightful.  Since all three of you said that you have experienced rape play, i'm wondering whether you feel that, if you were to be attacked by a rapist, would you be better able to handle the situation because of your rape play experience?  Of course, i know that no one knows how they will react to a situation until they are actually in that situation.  But, do you feel that you might be better prepared for such an event, if it were to happen?  Does the thought of being raped (not in fantasy or in play but, in an actual attack) frighten you more, less or, just the same, as it did before you experienced rape play?  Thanks again.
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David


I could not be more adamant about how differently play rape is to real rape. The thought of really being raped is horrific and I am sure I would react in a very violent manner to it. Experiencing consensual rape play with a partner is a far cry from a criminal act perpetuated by a stranger.  Not sure why you would think one would have anything to do with the other.

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 8:01:52 PM   
junecleaver


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quote:



I think it would be good if we seperate things from the fantasy of rape and the crime of rape. Regardless of sex, they are VERY different things. Fantasy rape is a healthy extension of safe, sane, and consensual play. The crime of rape is a brutal invasion of one's personal being.

Very different things my friends. I respect all who say that "rape is NOT something I can consent to." I also respect those who say, "I like several aspects of consensual rape."


Maybe for some people those lines are not as clear cut as for others.  Not that I don't respect the opinions you have mentioned, but it's not that black and white for me.


_____________________________


"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 9:23:07 PM   
creatrix


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I would not enjoy any part of that kind of play. My first hubby raped me, kicked my ass-beat the hell out of me, etc., and I did NOT like it at all. He did it many times over the 15 years we were married. After the first time, I never enjoyed sex with him... it was always about him... nothing to do with me. I finally had enough and left... that was 14 years ago. THANK GOD!

most anything is great fun... but never being raped. and I agree, Rape is an act of violence. BDSM is consentual... even if it is rape role play. True rape is a violent crime. Consentual anything is not a crime, unless you are consenting to smuggle drugs into the country, etc... ;)

_____________________________

~creatrix~


A slave is to be measured from the inside,

for it is her soul that is enslaved,

her body simply follows...


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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 9:36:19 PM   
slavetaboo


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When I first began reading this topic, I somehow knew it would end like this.

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