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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/9/2008 9:56:11 PM

knotslandingdom

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Never mind

< Message edited by knotslandingdom -- 1/9/2008 9:58:06 PM >

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/10/2008 2:57:37 AM

Riarain

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I have never fantasied about rapeing anyone. Just being raped. I do have a girlfriend who fantasises about rapeing men though.

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/10/2008 3:24:34 AM

surfandsub

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thats intense hun wow

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/10/2008 3:42:28 AM

Einzelganger

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I don't fantasize about being raped at all. I put myself in a really idotic situation a long time ago, and I wanted to kill that woman so bad I could taste it, blind at the time to the fact that it was my own stupidity that got me there.

However, I do fantasize about a woman I know and trust forcing me to try new things that she enjoys, as long as it's not a hard limit, or performing some sort of 'fantasy rape' on me. The main difference is personally knowing and trusting that woman. It would definitely matter to me that she enjoys it, wether she lets that show or not; if she doesn't enjoy it, or think I need it for some reason, then I wouldn't want her to go to the trouble.

Also, I would never ask this of her; wether or not she does it is up to her. Just my $0.02, of course...

-Einzelgänger

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/10/2008 11:15:31 AM

slavegirljoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tigerstyle

Rape crisis centers, for all their good work--and GOd Bless 'em--are far from ideologically free in this debate.

Every other source for information about rape, that i have seen, gives the same information, not just rape crisis centers. You can go to website for The Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network (RAINN), http://www.rainn.org, the website for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), http://www.cdc.gov, National Sexual Violence Resource Center, http://www.nsvrc.org/, or any number of other sites and they will say basically the same thing, that rape is a violent crime, not an act of passion.

quote:

The myth /fact about male/male rape caught my eye. As far as I can tell, they are claiming that, since rape has nothing to do with sex or sexual orientation, if a straight man rapes a male, the victim is home free! No sex has happened! I'd be worried about the gay rapists, though.

No, the victim isn't "home free". He is the victim of an assault, just as a woman is when she is raped. A penis isn't even required to rape someone, much less an erection or an orgasm. Men and women are raped with objects, too. And, women can rape men and other women, with no penis involved. If someone consents to it, it's sex. If they don't, it's rape.

The FBI reports that one out of six men will be victims of sexual assault by the time he reaches 18. Male rape occurs under similar circumstances as female rape: some one attacks the person with the need to overcome him in a violent, controlling way. The victim is overpowered either physically with force, or psychologically with threats, and forced into sexual contact.

The sexual preference of the rapist is not important here; the attack is one of violence, not of passion or sexual gratification. It is an attack of aggression in which the rapist uses violence, control, and sex to make himself feel more powerful.

Most male rapists who rape men are heterosexual, have access to typical sexual relationships with females, but feel greater control when sexually overpowering a male.

Males can be raped by having the following sexual acts forced on them, or be forced to perform these acts on the offender: penetration of penis into anus; fellatio (mouth to penis); penetration to any extent with an object into the anus; forced to perform cunnilingus (mouth to female genital area); or sexual intercourse (penis to vagina) on a female offender. Ejaculation does not have to occur for these acts to be considered rape. Forced anal penetration, the most commonly reported type of male rape, is a humiliating, painful experience for the victim.
New Mexico Coalition of Sexual Assault Programs, http://www.sfrcc.org/male_survivors.html

"Sex requires your consent. Rape and sexual assault are violent crimes and are motivated by anger, hatred, and aggression."

"Rape is a type of sexual assault in which your vagina, anus, or mouth is penetrated by a penis or any other object."
New York City Gay & Lesbian Anti-Violence Project, http://www.avp.org/sa/female_sa.htm.

i'm no expert on rape, although i have been sexually assaulted, more than once as a young girl, and then as an adult by a guy i went to an outdoor concert with, who drugged my beer when he volunteered to go buy us each a cup from the concession. Within a few minutes of drinking it, and i don't think i even finished it all, i was totally out of it. Oh, i was very, very giddy and loving the music and taking my shirt off and dancing around like a loon. And, after that, i haven't a clue.

i woke up the next afternoon, naked in his apartment in some part of DC that i was unfamiliar with. i had a horrible headache and i had thrown up, which i only knew because i could smell it in my hair and taste it.

It wasn't a nice feeling to think that someone i trusted and had enjoyed spending time with decided to drug me and use me any way he wanted, without me having any say in it. But, i have no idea why he did it. i didn't ask. i just wanted to get out of there, take a long, hot shower and forget i had ever met him. i felt dirty and cheap and used by someone i hardly knew. And, i was the one who invited him to the concert and bought the tickets and picked him up in my car. All it cost him was the price of 2 cups of beer.

So, to find out about why rapes happen, i turn to the people who do ask rapists why they rape and who talk with victims of rape, both men and women, and i get my information from them.

If some people want to believe that rape is about sex and a guy who is horny and just wants to get off, then that's what they are going to believe. Unfortunately, the myths about rape make it real hard for some people to even want to report the crime.

Believing these myths is dangerous and damaging.

So long as society believes these myths, and teaches them to children from their earliest years, sexually abused males will be unlikely to get the recognition and help they need.
So long as society believes these myths, sexually abused males will be more likely join the minority of survivors who perpetuate this suffering by abusing others.
So long as boys or men who have been sexually abused believe these myths, they will feel ashamed and angry.
And so long as sexually abused males believe these myths they reinforce the power of another devastating myth that all abused children struggle with: that it was their fault. It is never the fault of the child in a sexual situation - though perpetrators can be quite skilled at getting their victims to believe these myths and take on responsibility that is always and only their own.

For more myths, visit the MaleSurvivor website, http://www.malesurvivor.org/myths.html.

Well, this was supposed to be a thread to discuss rape fantasy, especially those of men, and about rape role play, not about rape. But, i guess the two can't be separated sometimes.

slave joy
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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/10/2008 11:28:41 AM

slavegirljoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

Thank you, to the women who have responded so far. Your answers have been very interesting and insightful. Since all three of you said that you have experienced rape play, i'm wondering whether you feel that, if you were to be attacked by a rapist, would you be better able to handle the situation because of your rape play experience? Of course, i know that no one knows how they will react to a situation until they are actually in that situation. But, do you feel that you might be better prepared for such an event, if it were to happen? Does the thought of being raped (not in fantasy or in play but, in an actual attack) frighten you more, less or, just the same, as it did before you experienced rape play? Thanks again.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

I could not be more adamant about how differently play rape is to real rape.

i totally agree that they are very different and, i wasn't trying to imply that i think otherwise.

quote:

The thought of really being raped is horrific and I am sure I would react in a very violent manner to it. Experiencing consensual rape play with a partner is a far cry from a criminal act perpetuated by a stranger. Not sure why you would think one would have anything to do with the other.

i was just asking if, by experiencing 'rape' in a role play setting, did it give you a different perspective on how you would handle an actual rape, if it gave you a better sense of how you would deal with an actual attacker. Since i have never done any rape play, and have no idea how that experience might affect my own thoughts about how i might fight off an attacker or otherwise deal with being raped.

i was just curious if playing out a rape scene had caused any change in how you percieve yourself in being able to deal with an actual attack.

i was thinking along the lines of "war games' that i participated in, when i was in the Army. It was 'pretend war' but, we acted as though it were the real thing and that experience helped me to see how i would react in a war situation.

Of course, no training or play is going to be exactly like the real thing but, at least, it helps to get some idea of how to respond to that sort of threat. i hope this makes some sense. It's the only way i can think of to explain what it was i was asking.

slave joy
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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/10/2008 12:10:30 PM

Missokyst

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Since there is such a huge difference between rape play with someone you trust, and the real life, anger, power, sexual megolomania driven, real life rape, no, it does not help you prepare to role play.
Number one when you are role playing there is some degree of safety in the back of your head that your partner cares for you.
In a real rape, there is no such security EVEN when it is committed by someone you should trust.
I have been raped, molested by both males and females. I have been violated by people I should have been able to trust, and those that I had reason to fear. It wasn't until I decided that harming someone who was attacking me was ok, that I found the strength to fight back.
The last time someone tried it, I ended up tossing a few guys over a railing. <g> I was amazed at my strength.
I don't think you can be prepared for a rape. I do think you can be prepared for how you handle it after.
Kyst

< Message edited by Missokyst -- 1/10/2008 12:11:12 PM >

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/10/2008 12:13:05 PM

domiguy

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Is it customary after a woman is raped for her to give her assailant a back rub?

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/10/2008 12:18:02 PM

slavegirljoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I don't think you can be prepared for a rape. I do think you can be prepared for how you handle it after.
Kyst

Thank you for your answer and i am glad that you were able to find your strength and fight back. That is a statement of courage. Can you say more about how someone can be prepared for how to handle it after a rape has occurred? It could mean a lot to those of us who weren't sure of what to do and, instead, just tried to bury it. Thanks, again.

slave joy
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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/10/2008 12:40:08 PM

tigerstyle

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quote:

If some people want to believe that rape is about sex and a guy who is horny and just wants to get off, then that's what they are going to believe. Unfortunately, the myths about rape make it real hard for some people to even want to report the crime.

False dichotomy. You aren't allowing for the possibility that some people, when horny, want to get off _by hurting someone else_. You also aren't allowing for the glaringly obvious possibility that some men might use violence to get something they want. Bank robbers use violence to get money and rapists use violence to get sex.

This idea that rape has nothing to do with sex has complex roots. Partly it comes from an ideological strain of feminism, typified by Susan Brownmiller, that claims that rape is a tool used by patriarchy to terrify women into submission. This pernicious, divisive bollocks must be resisted whereever it is found.

It also, more nobly, comes from an attempt to bring greater justice to victims of rape, because until recent times, it was a tenable defense against a charge of rape that the victim hadn't "defended her honor' to the utmost of her ability, or that she had given some signal, like wearing revealing clothing, or accompanying a man back to his room. Within living memory, the notion of women's consent was taken much more lightly. The valuable moral advances of feminism, such as educating men and women about consent and coercion, are not served by the dogma.

quote:

Believing these myths is dangerous and damaging.

Arrant nonsense, and irresponsible as well. The best way to prevent something is to understand it completely. This ideology rides roughshod over both common sense, the findings of science (for instance, that forcible copulation is common in the animal kingdom, or that most rape victims are women in their peak reproductive years) and--in the end--the best interests of victims. (Just one example of this: women who are taught that men rape only to demonstrate power over their victims may not be properly wary of the boy-next-door date rapist; who sits next to them in Psych 101 and wants to get them drunk in his frathouse room.)

I'm perfectly willing to grant that in some-perhaps in many--cases, such as in male on male rape by heterosexuals (which mainly occurs in rather specialized and restricted conditions) that sexual gratification might not be the main goal of the rapist. Those specialized cases certainly don't add up to proof for the ridiculous, sweeping and totally counter-intuitive claim that "rape is always about power, not sex".

Of course, another way to look at these cases of heterosexual male-on-male rapists (and keep in mind always that this is a tiny segment of the number of rapes that occur, being brought forward because it seems to prove an ideological point) is that heterosexual men are capable of getting off while fucking all manner of objects. Here at collarme we have men who'd identify as straight who enjoy intercourse with high-heeled shoes, with pumpkins, with Realdolls, with boys dressed as girls...the list goes on.

quote:

If someone consents to it, it's sex. If they don't, it's rape.

Now we are getting somewhere. If you want to break it down like this, I'll concede you your definition of sex and the argument becomes trivial.

Again, the fact that some rapes occur without ejaculation, without erection, with objects instead of genitals, etc, proves exactly nothing. We perverts indulge in all manner of para-sexual activity of this type and no one gets excited when we call it "sex".

Ultimately, I'm more interested in making the point that there's no way to separate sex and power for some people (some rapists). In other words, during the “attack of aggression” they are using violence to make themselves feel more powerful….. in a way that happens to please them sexually. That’s a mindset quite familiar to me from my own rape-play. And this is not even considering the rapists who are simply using violence to get something they want.

quote:

so long as boys or men who have been sexually abused believe these myths, they will feel ashamed and angry.

What does this even mean? An act of coercion is an act of coercion no matter what the motive is. Rape is a horrible violation. I suppose this is some well-meaning but muddled attempt to spare straight male rape victims from the idea that they have been made into sexual objects. While no one should be raped, I'm inclined to say "welcome to the lot of women throughout the ages, boys. It's a horrible thing to be used in such a way and let's do what we can to stop it, but not to the extent of denying everything we know about human nature and history".

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/10/2008 1:04:40 PM

Missokyst

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A long time ago I came to the conclusion that life was just life, it is something you learn from if you pay attention. And death is just a passage for me, not something I fear. The hardest thing to learn was that there is two ways to deal with things. One can either roll over and accept it, or fight to make it what you need.
Rape is like that for me. Early on in my life it seemed easier to roll over and martyr myself to it. Then I found out by giving in, I was giving someone power to do it again. I found out the man who raped me when I was 12, who was married to my sister, also raped my niece. That was a big turning point for me. If I had fought harder, even to my death, that man may not have gotten to rape who knows how many other young girls. If I had reported it then he may have faced jail. If I had reported it, my sister might have been pushed to leave him because I did not keep silent (yes she knew). If I had shoved that knife I grabbed into his chest instead of hesitating for fear of hurting him, maybe things would have been different for more than just my life.
It wasn't until I looked at the consequence of being afraid that I was able to move passed that fear.
For a while I learned to embrace the darkside. I became a bouncer in a bar run by .. organized anti-law types. I learned to be cold blooded about harming people who might be dangerous. I learned that sometimes I will lose, but I will have tried. And that was what made my life be ok. I am a fighter and survivor and plan to keep it that way.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I don't think you can be prepared for a rape. I do think you can be prepared for how you handle it after.
Kyst

Thank you for your answer and i am glad that you were able to find your strength and fight back. That is a statement of courage. Can you say more about how someone can be prepared for how to handle it after a rape has occurred? It could mean a lot to those of us who weren't sure of what to do and, instead, just tried to bury it. Thanks, again.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

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RE: The other side of the Rape Fantasy - 1/10/2008 2:28:06 PM

eevin

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i've fantasised about being raped by a woman. i've imagined scenerios where i'm captured and unable to prevent it from happening. A couple of times i've imagined it being a guy, but its almost excluisively women.

As for raping someone, i will admit there's been a few females i've dreamed of raping, and one i even talked to about those feelings i had concerning that with her. But i would never have the guts to do take it anywhere beyond just my mind.

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