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feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 10:27:59 AM

thelight

Posts: 82
Joined: 7/31/2005
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as a psychology student, i learned that women who have experienced severe emotional trauma will sometimes develop feelings of worthlessness, and as a result, may seek out abusive relationships, in order to valdate their own feelings of worthlessness.

i can see some such women being attracted to this lifestyle. my question is, how a dom who encounters such a woman should respond.

by taking her on as a submissive, would he be furthing her psychological damage, or simply giving her what she wants?

also, if he decides to take her on, does he own her any obligation to assume a paternalistic role, and try to foster a sense of self-worth within her, or is it acceptable for him to play into her feelings of worthlessness, in order to make her more compliant?

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RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 10:39:52 AM

Veav

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I got there first (http://www.collarchat.com:80/m_146716/mpage_1/key_therapy/tm.htm#146716) but since I'm certainly no stranger to posting old topics, let's give this a go...

There's no one good answer. It's very contextual - the needs of the dom, the needs of the sub, what each are looking for in a relationship. I would personally keep away from something like this, because submission != worthless and I would want to build her value and self-esteem. I would want her to understand that her submission is worth something - if she is "worthless", and I encourage her "worthless contributions", what does that say about me?

I'm not sure "obligated" is the term I'd use, but per SSC, we are obligated to help resolve and develop such things, not take advantage of them and potentially do greater harm. On the other hand, per RACK, so long as she's cool with it the sky's the limit. *considers* Like I said, contextual. I'd say the distinction lies in whether or not this theoretical sub has rationally acknowledged the drive within her and its source. So long as she has made a conscious decision to accept this part of her, who am I to say otherwise?

_____________________________

Yes, I am Gordon Freeman. Accept this, and move on with your life.

(in reply to thelight)

Post #: 2

RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 10:45:45 AM

Quivver

Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
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Whoa, this thought just flew thru my mind as I read this. Could it be a growth pattern a healthy one if the progression is fed correctly? Seems many HNG's dont instill a sense of worth, yet one you can call Master does. I guess what I'm saying is kinda like kissing frogs, after a few HNG's your eyes open to what is your *real*, as you realize what feeds you .............. just a thought.

Q

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to Veav)

Post #: 3

RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 10:53:01 AM

MistressFire70

Posts: 378
Joined: 7/25/2004
From: North Carolina
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A few points that stand out to me:

Men can feel worthless, too, due to abuse.

We are each responsible for our own mental health. As Dominants and Masters, we are responsible to creating an atmosphere that encourages this in our submissives and slaves. I suggest that if you do take her on, don't do it in order to "fix" her. You cannot, nor should you. Instead, if she comes to you, send her to therapy and then be supportive of the process.

Fire

_____________________________

you have come to a great chasm. Jump. It's not as wide as you think.

(in reply to thelight)

Post #: 4

RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 10:55:27 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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There are some people who seek out the type of individual you describe. They do it because they lack self confidence. They don't feel they have what it take to dominate a strong individual. Weak people will always be prey for manipulative predator types. To call the predators "Doms" would be a disservice to the title.

It is my opinion that no one should be submissive to address feelings of inadequacy. Doing so will continue them on a downward spiral of feeling worthless. Unless you are a professional psychologist versus a "psychology student" don't take on the role of counselor. Neither beth or I put a lot of stock into the psychological or psychiatric industries, but if the emotional trauma she experienced made her unable to function I think it is impossible to take on the role of "Dom Counselor". If however her self worth issue is a function of failed relationships then just addressing what she means to you can be the "cure".

A submissive should never feel worthless. Just look around this site. How many men and women are desperately searching for a submissive in general or their "one" in particular. If the position was "worthless" the all the Dom/me's on this site would have their mail box overflowing every morning when they log in.

It seems you are considering "taking her on"; do you feel she is worthless? Do you go around collecting "worthless" items, or having "worthless" friends? Within the answers to those rhetorical questions is how to begin the process with her. Begin not with a flogger or whip, but with a word or two that conveys why you are interested in having her as part of your life.

(in reply to thelight)

Post #: 5

RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 11:08:30 AM

thelight

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Joined: 7/31/2005
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quote:

It seems you are considering "taking her on"; do you feel she is worthless? Do you go around collecting "worthless" items, or having "worthless" friends? Within the answers to those rhetorical questions is how to begin the process with her. Begin not with a flogger or whip, but with a word or two that conveys why you are interested in having her as part of your life.

this thread is purely hypothetical. i am not considering entering into any such relationship.

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thelight is forbidden to shine

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Post #: 6

RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 11:17:39 AM

LadyAngelika

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I think the situation you are presenting for analysis applies in Female dominant/male submissive dynamics as well as man/man, woman/woman and any other combination. In my opinion, we meet people to fulfill our needs. I find that a lot of the paternalistic/maternalistic type dominants have a need as well that they are trying to fulfill when engaging in such types of relationships. Personally, I don't want to do the maternalistic thing at all. So I avoid boys looking for mommies. For some other women, this will be a perfect fit.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to thelight)

Post #: 7

RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 11:41:06 AM

thelight

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Joined: 7/31/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I think the situation you are presenting for analysis applies in Female dominant/male submissive dynamics as well as man/man, woman/woman and any other combination.

that's true. it wasn't my intent to be sexist, or to exclude same-sex relationships. it's just that the case-studies from class invariably involved heterosexual women who sought abuse from men. so that was the situation i had in mind as i wrote.

this demonstrates a flaw in our educational system. whenever an example of an intimate relationship is needed, text book authors aviod using same-sex relationships unless having the couple be same-sex is somehow integral to the point they are making.

the result is, that studnets who learn from these text books tend to automatically visualize a heterosexual couple whenever they contemplate an intimate relationship.

i apologize if i offended anyone.

_____________________________

thelight is forbidden to shine

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Post #: 8

RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 11:43:01 AM

LadyAngelika

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You didn't offend me at all. I was just pointing out other possibilities.

And you are right, the text books stay away from things they have a hard time explaining. Ironic, isn't it?

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to thelight)

Post #: 9

RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 11:51:08 AM

thelight

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Joined: 7/31/2005
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but some things don't require an explanation. like, if an author begins a hypothetical with "brandon and sue were having money problems...." s/he could just as eaily write "brandi and sue were having money problems...." no explanation would be necessay.

< Message edited by thelight -- 8/25/2005 11:54:32 AM >

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thelight is forbidden to shine

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Post #: 10

RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 11:53:09 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thelight
no expanation would be necessay.

But an open mind and a disposition to think outside the box would be.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to thelight)

Post #: 11

RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 2:03:18 PM

RumpusParable

Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
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three part reply:

1) this is by no means a purely female-oriented problem. males are prone to developing the same issues due to such things in their lives.

2) bdsm or vanilla, a relationship for a person with these problems can be simply another repeat of or further step down into an unhealthy cycle... or it can be healing, supportive, and a step out of that pattern.

in both types of relationships the person can be taken advantage of, manipulated, emotionally and physically injured, et cetera.

in both types of relationships the person can be helped to face unpleasant memories, aided in feeling safe to address and push past associations with negative past events and/or change reactions and behaviors to similar stimuli, guided and urged to redefine their healthy sense of self, et cetera.

3) i feel one's personal mental health (among other things) is solely one's own responsibility to take care of, but i also think that in any positive relationship -regardless of level or type- the people involved help enhance one another's life rather than pull the one or both of them down... the details of how always varies and can only be defined in terms of those persons and their needs, wants and interaction manner.

(in reply to thelight)

Post #: 12

RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 2:20:43 PM

dominmd

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Joined: 6/27/2005
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I wouldn't even talk to a woman who has no self worth. I can and have dated women and had their own self worth improve just by the way I treat them. It is not something that has to go on forever. Men fall prey to it to, especially when a relationship fails and they are not told why. And Yes I have had it happen to me as well.

(in reply to RumpusParable)

Post #: 13

RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 4:06:50 PM

OscarHargraves

Posts: 693
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline

I, for one, wouldn't want a Sub who does not value herself well. There are indeed people (I wouldn't call them Dom(mes)) out there that seek out these poor souls and use their feelings of worthlessness to make themselves feel bigger, stronger or better. Whether they do that out of desperation, lack of confidence or their own poor self asteem I'm not sure. Why would a Dom(me) want a person like that? There's no challenge in topping someone who feels this way. Whether it's a man or woman they aren't really a Sub, they're nothing more than a doormat. There can't be any exchange of power when you top a doormat so I guess it's just to use them for kinky sex they probably can't get anywhere else. I would have to say I feel sorry for those people. Both the Sub that is willing to do this and the Top that thinks this is real.

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Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ! !

(in reply to dominmd)

Post #: 14

RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 4:09:03 PM

Kinkypupper

Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
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I personally feel that there are WAY to many "Doms" who do this and should not.

They are not professionally qualified for helping this person and all they are doing is using a vulnerable individual. and VERY possably causing more harm and they could care less..

This is not right.. But then our Medical system in this country is not right and that those people that need help should be allowed to get it. And not resort to the "largesse" of some wannabe "DOM" who wants to use a vulnerable person for their own personal reasons.

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to thelight)

Post #: 15

RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 4:14:24 PM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
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By recommending to her as a friend that she seeks assistance and then ask her if she desires you to find a KAP in her area.

We cannot solve other people's issues, they have to do that themself... and, accepting someone as a permanent partner who has life damaging issues is a sure way to fail at the relationship before it is really started.

~J

(in reply to thelight)

Post #: 16

RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 8:25:06 PM

caitlyn

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Joined: 12/22/2004
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I genuinely don't mean to offend anyone with this post.

When you feel that way about yourself, you will never be able to fix yourself ... just so you know. It's train spotting. You're on the track and you see the light coming ... and just keep walking towards it. If someone doesn't help you ... you're already dead. It just hasn't happened yet.

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to LordODiscipline)

Post #: 17

RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 10:11:06 PM

pinkpleasures

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

quote:

I genuinely don't mean to offend anyone with this post.

When you feel that way about yourself, you will never be able to fix yourself ... just so you know. It's train spotting. You're on the track and you see the light coming ... and just keep walking towards it. If someone doesn't help you ... you're already dead. It just hasn't happened yet.

citlyn

caitlyn, what it sounds like you may be feeling is in part normal for a woman your age, facing the challenges of life as a fresh face. If so, you must know intellectually you are not worthless...if this is how you feel, it is a misguided feeling which is clouding your thinking.

i found some web sites that might interest you.

i also recommend if this is how you feel that you get a complete physical and soon. There are possible medical problems which could be causing this feeling. If you have no insurance, go to a free clinic or the hospital for the poor where you live.

If no physical basis for this feeling is found, and this is how you feel, you can get help for depression or another mood disorder from your county mental healh board. Call your city commisioner's office to find the mental health board, then call for an intake appointment.

you are always welcome to email me here.

Others have had the same unedurable pain, catlyn, but it does pass. Hang in there and get better soon.

pinkpleasures

quote:

Mystical Dark Night of the Soul
http://www.themystic.org/dark-night/

quote:

Dark Night of the Soul; Christian Classics Etheral Library
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/john_cross/dark_night.iv.html

quote:

Electronnic version of "Dark Night of the Soul" by ST. John of the Cross
http://www.catholicfirst.com/thefaith/catholicclassics/johnofthecross/dark_night/darknight1.cfm

quote:

Clinical Depression
http://my.webmd.com/medical_information/condition_centers/depression/default.htm

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 8/27/2005 9:20:26 AM >

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RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/25/2005 10:34:34 PM

pinkpleasures

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

quote:

Whoa, this thought just flew thru my mind as I read this. Could it be a growth pattern a healthy one if the progression is fed correctly? Seems many HNG's dont instill a sense of worth, yet one you can call Master does. I guess what I'm saying is kinda like kissing frogs, after a few HNG's your eyes open to what is your *real*, as you realize what feeds you .............. just a thought.

Quivver

Ten? Lucky woman..i think i've crosed paths with 100's of HNGs. They do sap your strength a bit, because you wonder why the are attracted to you. But it's not your fault; they hit every woman, i think.

To answer the Op: in my opinion, a woman needs strength and an orderly life to consider submission. Thus, a severely abused woman would need to have dealt with the "scar" with the help of a therapist or elsewise, before she'd be suitable for a D/s relationship. Yet it is true she will be scarred, and any Dom or Master who consideres her will need to consider whether He wwishes to accept her as she is.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 8/26/2005 3:23:20 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 19

RE: feelings of worthlessness - 8/26/2005 1:07:15 AM

haematopoiesis

Posts: 134
Joined: 7/8/2005
From: the land of oaks
Status: offline

I experienced a great deal of severe emotional trauma, and viewed myself as hopelessly worthless. Even moreso because I did not have the strength to end my life and spare everyone around me from having to deal with the fact that I was taking up space in their world.

I was, in my own mind, so worthless that I did not seek out a relationship. Why would I? Nobody would have wanted me.

Instead, somebody pursued me. To this day, I am unsure as to why. I gave into his demands with little fight, and he found a willing submissive to cater to his wants and desires. This did, however, turn into an abusive relationship. I am uncertain as to whether or not that was his original intent, or if it was just inevitable that it do so given my state when I entered into it. He did take advantage of my feelings of worthlessness at every turn, and did everything he could to make me as compliant as possible. I lost sight of what little bit of myself was left, and became a drone to his service. He was happy. I was not-- but then, I hadn't been before that either.

A life-altering event made me reflect upon myself, my worth, and the state of my psyche.

I underwent a complete overhaul, including ridding myself of that relationship.

As such, I have since been very picky in what was done by whom so far as I go. In my currently relationship, I have found that my feelings of worth have made the entire experience far more fulfilling. Upon occasion, much to my own chagrin, I will fall into little jots of insecurity. During some of these periods my dom will take the time to give me a little extra praise, to which I respond very well. Sometimes he does not do so, because he feels that it is important for me to be able to pick myself up by the bootstraps, as it were.. and then he rewards me for having done so. These "down" periods occur less and less frequently as time goes by.

This isn't a very clear-cut answer to the question, but a set of examples in each situation. In hindsight, I can say that I much prefer my life now to then. I am happy to have someone who helps me to see my worth.

I don't think that my former dom had any obligation to foster a sense of self-worth in me, but at the same time I am displeased that he took the time to enhance my feelings of worthlessness. It is not a good way to live, and I wish that more people in that situation could realize their way out of it.

(in reply to thelight)

Post #: 20

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